The Brexit aftermath thread

[starzer]

But… the question is then: to what extent are people affected by what they read / consume and to what extent are newspapers and their digital equivalent just echoboxes between which people are free to move.

So, if the Telegraph was suddenly to lurch radically to the left, its readers would stop buying it. They’re not going shift their own political positions are they. I guess part of your point is that the tabloid press is able to switch allegiance across a narrower political margin for the benefit of a) owners b) politicians who chat up said owners c) their benefactors etc.

If the Telegraph wanted to lurch to the left for some reason yes if they did it too fast it would alienate everybody. There's no precedent for that, however something like that did happen with the British National Party who for some reason decided to publish an article in their newsletter about working with muslim groups who agreed with them that ethnic minorities should keep away from white people (yes this really happened). The BNP collapsed overnight.

However, they almost certainly wouldn't do that. There would be a gradual transition. Socratic yes-yes method, t"he Tories have become too extreme, Starmer is showing signs of being a strong leader so on and on...We are true conservatives at heart but this government has forced us to etc ect".

Where I would slightly contradict the narrative that the newspapers decide everything is simply the observation that, like advertisers, they can run a poor campaign. Million dollar advertising campaigns can be ineffective if poorly executed or even lose market share, and so can political campaigns. This does not generally happen but there were a few examples-the best one was when they tried to portray Gordon Brown as a bully and just increased his standing amongst voters who perceived this as strength. The anti-semitism stuff about Corbyn almost certainly increased his vote share among the muslim community (the data shows an increase in muslim/labour voting) and didn't really win over any one who didn't already hate him apart from Jews who aren't very numerous in this country.

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I did google preselection and got confused when it took me to urban dictionary. Seems to be just a bunch of incels moaning about why they’re still virgins?

It actually has a meaning in genetics...amazing how much stuff that crowd steals from academia so they can misappropriate it. If you ever meet a pick-up artist monetizing a group of incels ask them to explain the existence of shetland ponies and watch their head explode.

What I meant was pre-selection as it applies to advertising. So you get people in a subliminal receptive state to your product. This has a dramatic effect on sales. It would be something like anchoring childhood memories to a hot chocolate drink. It bypasses the customer's natural resistance to ads. This, rather than direct political endorsements, is how newspapers actually influence their readers. Simply portraying a politician in a positive light or the direct opposite is enough to shift voter opinion in favour of one candidate.

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"Just want to finish by saying I am a person who benefits from brexit due to unlimited overtime I can take to deal with this now, and would like to thank Boris for such opportunity."

So you SEE, Brexit is creating new opportunity! (Just jumping in here before dribbles says the same thing without irony).

[Easo]

I mean, having import taxes (and they honestly are ridiculous for the average person. 22 EUR and up - pay) was nothing new if you ordered something from USA to EU. I made that mistake once, never again. Brits might have not expected that, but for example in Latvia our goverment did warn package senders that there will be import taxes. Oh well, I will switch to Germany's Amazon.
UK has it's own Amazon, they can get most of the stuff regardless. But for people who send stuff to relatives, for example? Yeah, not a "win".

[ranzino]

RoI is a bit worried, usually they get their stuff via UK and NI but with declarations and customs it takes much to long.
now it takes much less time to ferry it over directly from EU to Rosslare or Cork and they will use that routes for time being. UK and its goods will be out of business if the situation continues.

[Twdft]

I mean, having import taxes (and they honestly are ridiculous for the average person. 22 EUR and up - pay) was nothing new if you ordered something from USA to EU. I made that mistake once, never again.

Not a problem in Germany, I did it for movies from Hong Kong and Japan. Postal service was paying import tax (items above €22) and customs duty (above €150) for me and collected that amount on delivery. You just have to be aware of it so you got the money when postman rings.

You can push the limit of €22 to €45 if you get the seller to declare it as a gift. Problem is they can't have an invoice in the parcel then. Conflicting info then so postal services don't do their stuff and I had to go to customs and to pick it up and pay import taxes myself. Interesting experience since I never were there before, those people really had all the time in the world. I'm sure they made me wait on purpose so I'll never false declare my shopping again.

[Easo]

Not a problem in Germany, I did it for movies from Hong Kong and Japan. Postal service was paying import tax (items above €22) and customs duty (above €150) for me and collected that amount on delivery. You just have to be aware of it so you got the money when postman rings.

You can push the limit of €22 to €45 if you get the seller to declare it as a gift. Problem is they can't have an invoice in the parcel then. Conflicting info then so postal services don't do their stuff and I had to go to customs and to pick it up and pay import taxes myself. Interesting experience since I never were there before, those people really had all the time in the world. I'm sure they made me wait on purpose so I'll never false declare my shopping again.

I mean't the whole idea of import tax for the average citizen. I do not think that stuff for personal use like the movies you mentioned should be taxed but oh well. One of the reason Blizzard opening gear shop in Europe was a nice thing.

[Temp name]

Not a problem in Germany, I did it for movies from Hong Kong and Japan. Postal service was paying import tax (items above €22) and customs duty (above €150) for me and collected that amount on delivery. You just have to be aware of it so you got the money when postman rings.

You can push the limit of €22 to €45 if you get the seller to declare it as a gift. Problem is they can't have an invoice in the parcel then. Conflicting info then so postal services don't do their stuff and I had to go to customs and to pick it up and pay import taxes myself. Interesting experience since I never were there before, those people really had all the time in the world. I'm sure they made me wait on purpose so I'll never false declare my shopping again.

Yeah, don't commit tax fraud..

[Slant]

Yeah, don't commit tax fraud..

I mean, this isn't quite on the same level as tax fraud. Companies declare their packages as all kinds of things. Working in a company that regularily imports stuff, we don't tell them how to declare it. We purchase goods and we have to go to customs to pick stuff up all the time because of false declarations. It's not an issue, that is what custom checks are for. It's not all about the drug smuggling.

[Crispin]

Tonnes of meat rotting at the border due to Brexit red tape

Tonnes of meat rotting at the border due to Brexit red tape
Oliver Wright, Policy Editor Tuesday January 19 2021, 12.01am GMT, The Times

British meat exporters joined fishermen yesterday to warn that their exports to Europe were being crippled by post-Brexit customs red tape.

In the past two weeks fresh produce worth hundreds of thousands of pounds has been impounded at European ports for not having the correct paperwork.

One exporter has five containers’ worth of fresh pork that has been stuck in Rotterdam for two weeks because a veterinary certificate had been filled in incorrectly.

Another had five lorries, each containing 23 tonnes of fresh chilled meat, valued at £500,000, impounded in Calais for three days.

Much of the meat will have to be destroyed; products such as pork and chicken need to be processed within eight days of slaughter. The industry has warned that European customers are looking for alternative suppliers as exporters suffer “catastrophic delays for perishable products”.

“The new post-Brexit customs system for meat products is convoluted, archaic and badly implemented,” said Nick Allen, chief executive of the British Meat Processors Association.

“If continental supermarkets are unable to have products delivered the way they need them to be, this trade will simply be lost as EU customers abandon UK suppliers and source product from European processors.”

Seafood hauliers descended on Downing Street in HGVs yesterday to protest at the disruption that has led to trade with the Continent grinding to a halt because of delays at the border.

More than a dozen lorries with slogans such as “Brexit carnage” and “Incompetent government destroying shellfish industry” were parked in Whitehall, having been driven down to London from ports around the country.

Boris Johnson said that he understood the “frustrations” of businesses trying to export to Europe and said that any seafood businesses experiencing difficulty exporting to the EU “through no fault of their own” would be compensated.

He said: “I sympathise very much and understand their frustrations, and things have been exacerbated by Covid, and the demand hasn’t been what it was before the pandemic and that’s one of the problems we’re trying to deal with. Where businesses, through no fault of their own, have faced difficulties exporting where there is a genuine willing buyer, there’s a £23 million fund to help out.”

The meat industry said that many of its problems lay in the export health certificates that had to accompany all shipments.These certificates are generated by filling in the product code online and printing them out before getting them signed by a vet. Many of the forms then need to be altered by hand — because they are not specific enough — and each change also has to be stamped and initialled by the vet.

Mr Allen said that some forms he had seen had up to 50 different stamps on them, causing even more confusion at the border.

Tony Hale, managing director of London-based DH Foods, said that he had five containers of fresh pork sitting at Rotterdam port that was now “completely rotten”. He added: “There is nothing we can do about it. We can no longer sell it, but we can’t even bring it back into this country because we don’t have the right forms to do so.”

Seems like an avalanche, first fish now meat.

I'm sure remainers are glad that the industries that voted for leave, are now getting compensated with their tax money.

[sircaw]

After watching Jeremy Vine this morning, it seems like the UK has indeed vaccinated more of its citizens against covid than the entire EU has.

Can someone explain to me why or what is happening with the Eu and their response, is there too much red tape, you would expect a block with 27 countries to have the fortitude to have this sorted so much earlier,

I know this thread likes dogpile on the UK all the time but how about some change of track and tell me why this is happening. This is surely an oversight, or poor planning or bad leadershiper.

I believe Amercia are vaccinating there people and so are China, why is the Eu so far behind this?>

[Demolitia]

Tonnes of meat rotting at the border due to Brexit red tape



Seems like an avalanche, first fish now meat.

I'm sure remainers are glad that the industries that voted for leave, are now getting compensated with their tax money.

It didn't take long for BoJo to blame it on Covid ...
And it won't go away when business gets used to the paperwork.
Let's hope sovereignty is enough to pay the bills and buy food ...

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After watching Jeremy Vine this morning, it seems like the UK has indeed vaccinated more of its citizens against covid than the entire EU has.

Can someone explain to me why or what is happening with the Eu and their response, is there too much red tape, you would expect a block with 27 countries to have the fortitude to have this sorted so much earlier,

I know this thread likes dogpile on the UK all the time but how about some change of track and tell me why this is happening. This is surely an oversight, or poor planning or bad leadershiper.

I believe Amercia are vaccinating there people and so are China, why is the Eu so far behind this?>

Partly because it started later as it took a bit longer to approve the vaccines, so it has yet to pick up pace, and partly because it ordered a lot from different vaccine candidates very early on, and ultimately failed to order a lot more of pfizer doses when it appeared to be the winner.
I guess council bickering and France's hope for sanofi's vaccine, which turned out to be a dud, didn't give the EU enough flexibility.
That being said, we can only all breathe when the world is adequately vaccinated. we are only in the first month or so, so it's a bit early to flex.

[Dezerte]

The EU as a whole has performed more vaccinations, but per capita the UK is indeed ahead (according to https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations)

[LeGin Tufnel]

I'm sure remainers are glad that the industries that voted for leave, are now getting compensated with their tax money.

Yes. It's a shambles. The first people to pitch up at Westminster protesting about the red tape they themselves voted for is, indeed, the fishermen. But, hey, rather than export it we should all be eating a lot more herring and shellfish. I thought that was the whole point. Eat local. What we need is a mutton resurgence.

I know this thread likes dogpile on the UK all the time

No. That’s misleading. This has been pointed out to you before: it’s Brexit and Brexiteers that, at least, I’m dogpiling on. Not “the UK”. It’d be like going to the Trump thread and saying the majority of posters like to “dogpile on the US”. No, they don’t.

[Crispin]

After watching Jeremy Vine this morning, it seems like the UK has indeed vaccinated more of its citizens against covid than the entire EU has.

Can someone explain to me why or what is happening with the Eu and their response, is there too much red tape, you would expect a block with 27 countries to have the fortitude to have this sorted so much earlier,

I know this thread likes dogpile on the UK all the time but how about some change of track and tell me why this is happening. This is surely an oversight, or poor planning or bad leadershiper.

I believe Amercia are vaccinating there people and so are China, why is the Eu so far behind this?>

It was approved later /shrugs. You’re confusing dogpiling on UK with pointing out that project fear was project reality.

There’s a covid thread in OT

[sircaw]

It was approved later /shrugs. You’re confusing dogpiling on UK with pointing out that project fear was project reality.

There’s a covid thread in OT

I am not confusing anything, i am asking a simple question.

[sircaw]

What does the amount of EU vaccinations have to do with Brexit?

Just wondering how a little country like the UK seems to be further ahead in vaccination of its populace than the EU is.

Especially as the Eu is basically a superpower compared to the UK. Very strange, very strange indeed.

[Forogil]

What does the amount of EU vaccinations have to do with Brexit?

Actually a bit: the EU organized vaccine approval and purchase together, while the uk decided to do it on their own due to brexit.

However, there are also additional factors - the EU seems to have required more complete documentation for approval since it's a more normal approval than in the uk and the US, and the EU may have negotiated a better price. (Some vaccine approvals in the EU may also have more stringent producer liability.)

[LeGin Tufnel]

It just screams of someone desperately trying to cobble together something that may be a positive for the UK, given all the Brexit issues currently going on.

The poster's conflating two entirely different issues. So, either they're trolling deliberately or they don't have the capacity to understand that:

I love rugby! + I hate apples! ≠ we should all hate apples!

[sircaw]

That second bit is the point, though. They went about it differently. It isn't really a function of Brexit, since we could have done what we did even while a part of the EU.

Aside from that, we're one little country. The EU is far, far larger. I don't really see them as comparable in this.

It just screams of someone desperately trying to cobble together something that may be a positive for the UK, given all the Brexit issues currently going on.

So anything positive about the UK is deemed either a lie or is a fabrication.

Got ya

[Forogil]

That second bit is the point, though. They went about it differently. It isn't really a function of Brexit, since we could have done what we did even while a part of the EU.

That's not certain, as it's claimed that the EU had legally binding contracts against side-buying by member-states; https://www.politico.eu/article/germ...nding-eu-pact/

Obviously it may be that the contract would not have been signed without brexit; or that EU-28 without brexit-distraction would have been even more effective in signing the deals.

[LeGin Tufnel]

So anything positive about the UK is deemed either a lie or is a fabrication.

Got ya

You, sir, are a troll.

I've reported this as trolling... so one of three things is going to happen: either you're going to get infracted for trolling or I will for discussing it. Maybe if we're lucky, we'll both be infracted.