Do you support Edward Snowden and Julian Assange being pardoned? Why or why not?

[OwenBurton]

Edward Snowden and Julian Assange are several of the most controversial figures in recent Western history -- they have deeply divided public opinion among conservatives and liberals alike, in various Western countries, but most especially the United States. There are conservatives who support them, and conservatives who think they deserve the death penalty or at least life imprisonment; there are liberals who think likewise as well. I honestly don't know what most Democrats and Republicans would support, if their politicians and voters were polled today?

Some call them traitors, and some call them heroes -- some insist that they are neither, and others argue they are possibly both. What is your honest opinion on them? Should they be legally prosecuted, or pardoned, for their actions? What should they have done differently, what would you have done if you were in their position?

[Xeones]

Hell no. Julian Assange is a Russian agent who engaged in espionage. As for Snowden I would be in favor of it if he had taken the self sacrifice route, but instead he releases the info and immediately goes to enemy nations to hide giving them who knows what in exchange for protection.

Neither deserves a pardon.

[Sunseeker]

Hell no. Julian Assange is a Russian agent who engaged in espionage. As for Snowden I would be in favor of it if he had taken the self sacrifice route, but instead he releases the info and immediately goes to enemy nations to hide giving them who knows what in exchange for protection.

Neither deserves a pardon.

Seconded.

/10nopardons

[Machismo]

If Snowden was actually like Manning, I'd see a justification in pardoning him. He's not.

Assange has aggressively sought to undermine a country, and has worked with America's enemies to do it. What credibility he once had has been torn to shreds.

[DarkTZeratul]

I could probably be convinced to support a pardon for Edward Snowden.

But fuck Julian Assange.

[jonnysensible]

nope. all Americans and Australians should be immediately put in jail. im a reasonable man.

[Felya]

Have you guys heard of Reality Winner?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_Winner

[Drutt]

Support it for Snowden, not Assange.

Snowden has been completely open about the fact he broke the law, and has said he's happy to return for trial as long as he isn't prosecuted under the Espionage Act. His reasoning is that under this act, he would not be allowed to defend himself properly; his motivated was the common good/public interest, and this is explicitly blocked when charged under the Espionage Act. Given the information he revealed, his argument seems to have merit to me, and I would be in favour of a pardon as a result.

Assange, on the other hand, seems to have no motivation other than wanting to attack the US, embarrass the Democrats (and Hillary Clinton especially), and seems content to work with (hostile) state governments in order to accomplish that. Now, none of those are crimes, of course (particularly not for a foreign national), but he is also accused of assisting with breaching security on secured data, i.e. he was an active participant in Manning's data theft. That is something he should answer for.

I don't assume Assange is definitely guilty; I just believe he appears to have a case to answer and it should be argued out in court, with full public transparency. If he is not guilty, he will be proven so in court. If he is not guilty but the court convicts him anyway, then that will be plain for all to see, and that's the point where any outcry should start.

[Doctor Amadeus]

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHA FUCK NO, both of these lying pieces of shit should drop their sacks and face justice like anyone else. People easily manipulated by these fucking ego maniacs aren't all that far from the Trump Fanaticism.

Don't get me wrong I am not particularly bothered by the information they decided to release on some level. My problem is with the way they went about it, which in my opinion can't be trusted.

Did they do the right thing? Perhaps from a perspective.

But they didn't do it for freedom or because either gives a rats ass about anybody but themselves. They aren't saints or innocent, perhaps if they weren't trying to be and people suggesting they should be, I would be more open minded.

But my answer is not only NO, but it's FUCK NO!

- - - Updated - - -

Support it for Snowden, not Assange.

Snowden has been completely open about the fact he broke the law, and has said he's happy to return for trial as long as he isn't prosecuted under the Espionage Act. His reasoning is that under this act, he would not be allowed to defend himself properly; his motivated was the common good/public interest, and this is explicitly blocked when charged under the Espionage Act. Given the information he revealed, his argument seems to have merit to me, and I would be in favour of a pardon as a result.

Assange, on the other hand, seems to have no motivation other than wanting to attack the US, embarrass the Democrats (and Hillary Clinton especially), and seems content to work with (hostile) state governments in order to accomplish that. Now, none of those are crimes, of course (particularly not for a foreign national), but he is also accused of assisting with breaching security on secured data, i.e. he was an active participant in Manning's data theft. That is something he should answer for.

I don't assume Assange is definitely guilty; I just believe he appears to have a case to answer and it should be argued out in court, with full public transparency. If he is not guilty, he will be proven so in court. If he is not guilty but the court convicts him anyway, then that will be plain for all to see, and that's the point where any outcry should start.

Honestly I would have to say I hate Assange more, but if it were going to be one vs the other, I would say Assange. Mostly because he as an Australian technically doesn't OWE the U.S Anything. I would consider him an enemy of the U.S and Democracy, but SNOWDEN who I actually like more, is different.


Snowden made an agreement, and he broke that, I would say the scope of what he released was more important and likely less harmful over all, but again if we say it's alright to swear an oath and discard that whenever the hell someone feels like it, what happens when that information is vital to the safety of U.S Citizens.


Snowden is Smart he had options but his grand standing ass made a choice now he can live with it or man the fuck up come back and face a lawful and fair trial.

[Egomaniac]

Have you guys heard of Reality Winner?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_Winner

Is that like, her actual birth name?

No wonder she treasoned. :P

[Felya]

Is that like, her actual birth name?

No wonder she treasoned. :P

Yeah, she is the one Intercept ratted out to the feds, when she tried to leak Russian investigation info.

[Gaidax]

Ultimately no.

Snowden is a traitor and Assange is a foreign agent.

Snowden is being glorified, but ultimately he damaged US, West and supplied proverbial ammo to the likes of Russia and China. Furthermore, other people like him need to be discouraged from doing similar acts.

It is a touchy subject because some stuff may be really fucked up to the point it has to be floated, but you may have people who would simply splurge things not because they are genuinely concerned, but because they want their spotlight and benefits.

[Dezerte]

Snowden, maybe. Assange, I don't think so. Don't know enough about them and what they've done to say something definitely though.

[Felya]

Snowden, maybe. Assange, I don't think so. Don't know enough about them and what they've done to say something definitely though.

Let’s put it this way... Snowden has said he wouldn’t accept a pardon, because he does not believe what he did was wrong. That people should know the truth. Assange lost his shit under a few weeks of asylum, to the point that people were concerned about the well being of his cat. To put in perspective how idiotic that is... how long have many of us been under quarantine and didn’t devolve into barbarians? Assange is an opportunist...

[Krakan]

Hell no. Julian Assange is a Russian agent who engaged in espionage. As for Snowden I would be in favor of it if he had taken the self sacrifice route, but instead he releases the info and immediately goes to enemy nations to hide giving them who knows what in exchange for protection.

Neither deserves a pardon.

I mean life isn't a movie... it seems reasonable to release the information then seek shelter rather then pulling a Rambo.

- - - Updated - - -

Let’s put it this way... Snowden has said he wouldn’t accept a pardon, because he does not believe what he did was wrong. That people should know the truth. Assange lost his shit under a few weeks of asylum, to the point that people were concerned about the well being of his cat. To put in perspective how idiotic that is... how long have many of us been under quarantine and didn’t devolve into barbarians? Assange is an opportunist...

Comparing what your going through to what he is kinda sounds like when people build TNT houses in minecraft compare themselves to the creator of the atomic bomb.

Kinda cringy bud.

[ParanoiD84]

lol no way.

- - - Updated - - -

Traitors and spies should be hanged if anything.

[Xeones]

I mean life isn't a movie... it seems reasonable to release the information then seek shelter rather then pulling a Rambo.

???

No my only point is if he had just stayed here and faced consequences of his actions I would look fondly at him but he didn't. He's a coward who traded who knows what sensitive information with hostile nations he went to hide in.

[tehealadin]

I don't know as much about the Assange case, to the best of my knowledge he was leaked the info, he then leaked it and is wanted for espionage, even though he isn't a US citizen. I don't know the specifics of the data he leaked, or the implications of it, however arresting someone for publishing data about government wrongdoing isn't something I can support. If there were illegal consequences (e.g. stuff not redacted that ended in death) then I think it should be a different charge. I don't like the man, I think it is all for his glory and nothing else, but the wider implications for freedom of the press are worrying.

As for Snowden, the man is clearly a US patriot. Of course he did a runner- he knew fine well what the state would do to him, for the crime of unearthing widespread illegal activity by the government. People who are angry with him, saying it gives enemies ammunition, be angry at the NSA for raping the rights of US citizens on an industrial scale. That kind of loyalty to the government isn't patriotism. It is deranged. He did the right thing. What options were there? Report it to his superiors? Do nothing?

I felt it was another way in which Trump showed how much of a childish buffoon he is that he didn't pardon Snowden in particular. If he had pardoned him, aside from (what I feel) serving justice, he could have really stuck it to his opponents. I shouldn't say this as it will start an argument, but to hell with it, there is so much to despise about Trump, however there is a section of his critics that I feel would attack him even if he saved a baby from a burning building, something is bad just because he did it, I won't say this is a huge section, but from some of his critics I do get this sense (with so many flaws and ill deeds, I don't think you need to twist anything with him, when certain people do it, it comes across as unhinged, and I cringe a little), and I would have loved to see some of them stumped if he had have pardoned Snowden, their instinct would be to attack him for it, but at the same time they would surely support it, and I would have enjoyed the contortions some would have to get into to both approve and condemn at the same time. It would have been some way to say fuck you to his opponents on his way out, yet even then he couldn't do it, he has options to stick it to his opponents that involve going something actually good, but instead he pardons the likes of Bannon.

Even if it could really piss off and tie up his critics, he cannot find the decency. The man is a cunt.

[Machismo]

I don't know as much about the Assange case, to the best of my knowledge he was leaked the info, he then leaked it and is wanted for espionage, even though he isn't a US citizen. I don't know the specifics of the data he leaked, or the implications of it, however arresting someone for publishing data about government wrongdoing isn't something I can support. If there were illegal consequences (e.g. stuff not redacted that ended in death) then I think it should be a different charge. I don't like the man, I think it is all for his glory and nothing else, but the wider implications for freedom of the press are worrying.

As for Snowden, the man is clearly a US patriot. Of course he did a runner- he knew fine well what the state would do to him, for the crime of unearthing widespread illegal activity by the government. People who are angry with him, saying it gives enemies ammunition, be angry at the NSA for raping the rights of US citizens on an industrial scale. That kind of loyalty to the government isn't patriotism. It is deranged. He did the right thing. What options were there? Report it to his superiors? Do nothing?

I felt it was another way in which Trump showed how much of a childish buffoon he is that he didn't pardon Snowden in particular. If he had pardoned him, aside from (what I feel) serving justice, he could have really stuck it to his opponents. I shouldn't say this as it will start an argument, but to hell with it, there is so much to despise about Trump, however there is a section of his critics that I feel would attack him even if he saved a baby from a burning building, something is bad just because he did it, I won't say this is a huge section, but from some of his critics I do get this sense (with so many flaws and ill deeds, I don't think you need to twist anything with him, when certain people do it, it comes across as unhinged, and I cringe a little), and I would have loved to see some of them stumped if he had have pardoned Snowden, their instinct would be to attack him for it, but at the same time they would surely support it, and I would have enjoyed the contortions some would have to get into to both approve and condemn at the same time. It would have been some way to say fuck you to his opponents on his way out, yet even then he couldn't do it, he has options to stick it to his opponents that involve going something actually good, but instead he pardons the likes of Bannon.

Even if it could really piss off and tie up his critics, he cannot find the decency. The man is a cunt.

The issue is that Snowden didn't go through the proper channels (that he agreed upon as a government contractor) in order to address the issues. he also accessed government data that he was not supposed to, and mishandled that data. Regardless of what his intentions may have been, his actions were quite criminal.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I don't know as much about the Assange case, to the best of my knowledge he was leaked the info, he then leaked it and is wanted for espionage, even though he isn't a US citizen. I don't know the specifics of the data he leaked, or the implications of it, however arresting someone for publishing data about government wrongdoing isn't something I can support. If there were illegal consequences (e.g. stuff not redacted that ended in death) then I think it should be a different charge. I don't like the man, I think it is all for his glory and nothing else, but the wider implications for freedom of the press are worrying.

As for Snowden, the man is clearly a US patriot. Of course he did a runner- he knew fine well what the state would do to him, for the crime of unearthing widespread illegal activity by the government. People who are angry with him, saying it gives enemies ammunition, be angry at the NSA for raping the rights of US citizens on an industrial scale. That kind of loyalty to the government isn't patriotism. It is deranged. He did the right thing. What options were there? Report it to his superiors? Do nothing?

I felt it was another way in which Trump showed how much of a childish buffoon he is that he didn't pardon Snowden in particular. If he had pardoned him, aside from (what I feel) serving justice, he could have really stuck it to his opponents. I shouldn't say this as it will start an argument, but to hell with it, there is so much to despise about Trump, however there is a section of his critics that I feel would attack him even if he saved a baby from a burning building, something is bad just because he did it, I won't say this is a huge section, but from some of his critics I do get this sense (with so many flaws and ill deeds, I don't think you need to twist anything with him, when certain people do it, it comes across as unhinged, and I cringe a little), and I would have loved to see some of them stumped if he had have pardoned Snowden, their instinct would be to attack him for it, but at the same time they would surely support it, and I would have enjoyed the contortions some would have to get into to both approve and condemn at the same time. It would have been some way to say fuck you to his opponents on his way out, yet even then he couldn't do it, he has options to stick it to his opponents that involve going something actually good, but instead he pardons the likes of Bannon.

Even if it could really piss off and tie up his critics, he cannot find the decency. The man is a cunt.

Yeah I don’t totally agree but these are well rounded reasonable and logical considerations.

Not the let’s pardon them cause I think he did nothing wrong cause someone said.

As for the evidence that’s what trials are for and personally I don’t know or like this idea they should just leap frog over any of that and made to answer.

- - - Updated - - -

???

No my only point is if he had just stayed here and faced consequences of his actions I would look fondly at him but he didn't. He's a coward who traded who knows what sensitive information with hostile nations he went to hide in.

Yeah exactly his story seems bullshit. If he was so concerned about the government why would he leave friends and loved ones along with a fiancé on the hook for this.


I mean if the big bad government was out to get him why leave them behind or let them know get a good lawyer and reporter.

I mean personally if it were me I’m sure most could figure out how to get him through his family. Remember this is the big bad evil government so much so he ran to Russia and gave them classified documents he claims he doesn’t know all of what is on.

So no yeah he can man up and stand trial.