Sooo, when will Margrave Stradama (Plaguefall) finally get nerfed?

[luhilo]

Its my favorite boss :<

I mean nothing is uncounterable and stuff like the rain is only challenging on 10+. It's good to have bosses that are "class" checks aswell. Like you need a certain hps or dps. Game shouldnt just be free wins all the time.

[Bigbazz]

I think there are a bunch of bosses too hard on Tyrannical weeks. Dealer in De Other Side is my least favourite, the damn Arcane buff does brutal damage and it's extremely inconvenient to deal with as a melee if a ranged isn't prepared to move in until they get the debuff before moving out, plus it likes to deal damage just as you're entering a trap for an explosion which has on more than one occasion resulted in players dying from falling damage when landing.

It's to the extent these days where M+ bosses are more difficult than raid bosses with high individual responsibility and no margin for error, but unlike raiding you don't have time to sit around and figure it all out, the whole dungeon like one encounter and when you fail the key is rip. That is resulting in massive biases towards certain specs/comps and a massive effort among players to not invite any risk.

I think a bunch of M+ bosses could be nerfed so that they don't scale so brutally on the higher levels, especially on Tyrannical weeks. And I've not been doing the real high keys, i play Arms Warrior so in pugs I struggle to get invites for keys 3 levels below what I've 2 chested, if my friends aren't online and keen then anything much above a +10 involves sitting around waiting in LFG for tanks or getting declined.

[muto]

That rain is my nightmare as disc priest too. I have no idea how to outheal it, while running from stuff at the same time. I guess, with 3+ disease dispels it might be doable, but with only priest dispell - no way. That rain should be nerfed, there's enough happening already.

Your group has to kill the boss in 2:30 to stand a chance.

They need to cut that poison rain damage in half.

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I don't think boss is hard as you are making out, the real area of the tentacles is much larger than it seems and the rain does too much damage. That's about it. Every group has 2 ranged dps for the adds anyway and the soak circle is trivial. There are harder bosses.

No there isn’t.

Halls of Atonement = all easy
Sanguine Depths you can avoid popping balls on the first boss, and the second boss you can stun out the add while you kill it, so it doesn’t pulse damage.

Theatre of Pain = all easy

Spires. The only somewhat difficult boss is the second one because that bleed does a ridiculous amount of damage, and is on someone while the healer is also dodging balls.
Necrotic Wake = all easy.

Mists = super easy
De Other Side. The arcane dot boss can be hard if you screw up passing it around. Manastorms aren’t too difficult if you stun them on their special abilities.

[Jastall]

I think there are a bunch of bosses too hard on Tyrannical weeks. Dealer in De Other Side is my least favourite, the damn Arcane buff does brutal damage and it's extremely inconvenient to deal with as a melee if a ranged isn't prepared to move in until they get the debuff before moving out, plus it likes to deal damage just as you're entering a trap for an explosion which has on more than one occasion resulted in players dying from falling damage when landing.

It's to the extent these days where M+ bosses are more difficult than raid bosses with high individual responsibility and no margin for error, but unlike raiding you don't have time to sit around and figure it all out, the whole dungeon like one encounter and when you fail the key is rip. That is resulting in massive biases towards certain specs/comps and a massive effort among players to not invite any risk.

I think a bunch of M+ bosses could be nerfed so that they don't scale so brutally on the higher levels, especially on Tyrannical weeks. And I've not been doing the real high keys, i play Arms Warrior so in pugs I struggle to get invites for keys 3 levels below what I've 2 chested, if my friends aren't online and keen then anything much above a +10 involves sitting around waiting in LFG for tanks or getting declined.

The trash feels less oppressive than in BFA but the bosses feel even worse. My personal least favorite is the second boss in Spires who basically decides your run for you, everything after him is miles easier. But I'll agree that DoS is one of those dungeons, like Theater, that become just way harder than it needs to be on Tyrannical.

[Engal]

Your group has to kill the boss in 2:30 to stand a chance.

They need to cut that poison rain damage in half.

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No there isn’t.

Halls of Atonement = all easy
Sanguine Depths you can avoid popping balls on the first boss, and the second boss you can stun out the add while you kill it, so it doesn’t pulse damage.

Theatre of Pain = all easy

Spires. The only somewhat difficult boss is the second one because that bleed does a ridiculous amount of damage, and is on someone while the healer is also dodging balls.
Necrotic Wake = all easy.

Mists = super easy
De Other Side. The arcane dot boss can be hard if you screw up passing it around. Manastorms aren’t too difficult if you stun them on their special abilities.

I agree with this one. The only bosses that can be problematic in T week are

Dealer
2nd boss of spire
Stradama

That's all

[tehealadin]

The major thing about Stradama is that the tentacles hit animation isn't exactly right so people will die thinking they're safe. Most people have learned to overcompensate by now, but it still catches people in the heat of everything going on

Yes, I have died a few times thinking I was in a safe spot, but the spread was bigger than I thought, one time I was sure it didn't hit me, visually it didn't but it still splattered me. I got better at this though with practice.

I mainly heal and that rain is far too op. I ran it on m0 a few times to get a feel for things, my best key is a failed+2. We got to the last boss with 15 minutes to go. There was some failing on tentacles, however surviving the rain was the biggest issue. I heal as a paladin, so one dispel at a time, with a cooldown. I just hate that fight and don't want to go back to it. I don't think it is unreasonable for rain to be nerfed. Even changing it to a poison allows for more dispel options, to the best of my knowledge this is the effect that most people have a dispel for (please correct me if I am wrong).

[intenz]

Your group has to kill the boss in 2:30 to stand a chance.

They need to cut that poison rain damage in half.

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No there isn’t.

Halls of Atonement = all easy
Sanguine Depths you can avoid popping balls on the first boss, and the second boss you can stun out the add while you kill it, so it doesn’t pulse damage.

Theatre of Pain = all easy

Spires. The only somewhat difficult boss is the second one because that bleed does a ridiculous amount of damage, and is on someone while the healer is also dodging balls.
Necrotic Wake = all easy.

Mists = super easy
De Other Side. The arcane dot boss can be hard if you screw up passing it around. Manastorms aren’t too difficult if you stun them on their special abilities.

The gauntlet up to the last boss in SD is miles harder. Dealer is miles harder. Plaguefall in general is one of the easier dungeons and if your only problem is that rain then it's not much of an issue is it considering how many classes have ways to clear it.

[Argorwal]

i feel like if youre going to do keys over 10 then your group should take into consideration the class comp whether you like it or not. Monks Pallies and Priests can all dispel disease you dont need to stack any class and can still have a diverse class makeup and none of the disease dispel classes are weak in M+

Does AMS or cloak prevent stack application?

Trying to think of other class kits tools to handle it.

Also have ice block for one.

And any Kyrian has vial for one.

Along with personal defensives/self healing to help.

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Yes, I have died a few times thinking I was in a safe spot, but the spread was bigger than I thought, one time I was sure it didn't hit me, visually it didn't but it still splattered me. I got better at this though with practice.

I mainly heal and that rain is far too op. I ran it on m0 a few times to get a feel for things, my best key is a failed+2. We got to the last boss with 15 minutes to go. There was some failing on tentacles, however surviving the rain was the biggest issue. I heal as a paladin, so one dispel at a time, with a cooldown. I just hate that fight and don't want to go back to it. I don't think it is unreasonable for rain to be nerfed. Even changing it to a poison allows for more dispel options, to the best of my knowledge this is the effect that most people have a dispel for (please correct me if I am wrong).

Healer dispels are broke up somewhat uniformly. I won’t list dispel magic as all healers have that.

Paladin - poison, disease
Priest - disease, offensive dispel
Monk - poison, disease
Druid - curse, poison
Shaman - curse, offensive dispel

Some dps also have:
Mage - curse, offensive dispel (spell steal)
DH - offensive dispel

So in total:

Disease - 3
Poison - 3
Curse - 3
Offensive dispel - 4

Technically felhunters can also have offensive dispel but not super common and didn’t include it.

[tehealadin]

Healer dispels are broke up somewhat uniformly. I won’t list dispel magic as all healers have that.

Paladin - poison, disease
Priest - disease, offensive dispel
Monk - poison, disease
Druid - curse, poison
Shaman - curse, offensive dispel

Some dps also have:
Mage - curse, offensive dispel (spell steal)
DH - offensive dispel

So in total:

Disease - 3
Poison - 3
Curse - 3
Offensive dispel - 4

Thanks for sharing. I totally didn't get the range of cleanse effects across the classes, cheers. To the best of my knowledge the non healer specs lose the ability to cleanse magic, I had it in my head that some lost others too, the point I was trying (and failing!) to make was that giving more people access to a cleanse for her effect so that you weren't stuck with one person with a cooldown trying to do it, but clearly there are other options. My knowledge of the spectrum of cleanse effects was lacking, thanks for improving it.

I think it is maybe because in pugs so far, non healers typically don't dispel (that and those classes I mainly play as healer, or haven't played in years). I have played with rets before who demanded I cleanse their poison, and I tried to explain that I used it on others without a cleanse, and he should cleanse himself, meaning more get cleansed but he said it was the healers job. An outlier thankfully in terms of expressing that attitude at least. Maybe it is because I play a healer, so when I am doing non healer roles on certain classes I help out with cleanse/decurse and am alert to it.

[anon5123]

I've never had any issues with this dungeon or that boss. Though I've only done up to +5 so far.

[Argorwal]

Thanks for sharing. I totally didn't get the range of cleanse effects across the classes, cheers. To the best of my knowledge the non healer specs lose the ability to cleanse magic, I had it in my head that some lost others too, the point I was trying (and failing!) to make was that giving more people access to a cleanse for her effect so that you weren't stuck with one person with a cooldown trying to do it, but clearly there are other options. My knowledge of the spectrum of cleanse effects was lacking, thanks for improving it.

I think it is maybe because in pugs so far, non healers typically don't dispel (that and those classes I mainly play as healer, or haven't played in years). I have played with rets before who demanded I cleanse their poison, and I tried to explain that I used it on others without a cleanse, and he should cleanse himself, meaning more get cleansed but he said it was the healers job. An outlier thankfully in terms of expressing that attitude at least. Maybe it is because I play a healer, so when I am doing non healer roles on certain classes I help out with cleanse/decurse and am alert to it.

No problem, and yeah only healer specs can dispel magic other than shadow priests can technically Mass Dispel but that is a little different.

The key is just like you said, in pugs most non-healers won't dispel despite them being able to do it very easily. Since I heal often, when I dps I'm always watching out for places to cure disease/poison on my monk.

And the last boss in Plaguefall is a great example where a dps (or even tank for monk/paladin) can help dispel and make the rain much easier to deal with.

[Hero2Zer0]

Honetsly the fact they made the rain a disease was the dumbest decision ever. Every healer can remove magic why not make the rain magic....

[intenz]

Does AMS or cloak prevent stack application?

Trying to think of other class kits tools to handle it.

Also have ice block for one.

And any Kyrian has vial for one.

Along with personal defensives/self healing to help.

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Healer dispels are broke up somewhat uniformly. I won’t list dispel magic as all healers have that.

Paladin - poison, disease
Priest - disease, offensive dispel
Monk - poison, disease
Druid - curse, poison
Shaman - curse, offensive dispel

Some dps also have:
Mage - curse, offensive dispel (spell steal)
DH - offensive dispel

So in total:

Disease - 3
Poison - 3
Curse - 3
Offensive dispel - 4

Technically felhunters can also have offensive dispel but not super common and didn’t include it.

They do. So half the classes can either remove or dispel it, along with all kyrians. Considering it's just about the only thing that should damage people on that boss everyone has defensives to use against it, if dispels aren't available, or they can't just remove it outright. It's been 16 years since Lucifron and still a lot of players don't know they can decurse, some things never change.

[Thalrend]

I agree with this one. The only bosses that can be problematic in T week are

Dealer
2nd boss of spire
Stradama

That's all

You forget hakkar in that list. That boss is either is super easy because you will blast it via your high dps or devolves in to a shitshow extremely quick. An actual dps check.

[Eapoe]

Honetsly the fact they made the rain a disease was the dumbest decision ever. Every healer can remove magic why not make the rain magic....

Because his house weeps with blight!

[Jastall]

What would you know, shit gets nerfed during the MDI. Seems it's good for that, at least.

And those Necrotic Wake nerfs, maybe the place will be less miserable to run now. They still have to tune Sanguine Depths down a notch if you ask me, but still, good changes all around.

[Mickb]

Sorry to redirect this but could I do a sanity check on margrave Stradama? Just ran a +10 there with a group with 4 melee (prot pally, 2 Dh and a warr) and when the malignant spawn add came out, all 4 of them would stand in the circle. As healer it seems to me that the party damage form this was massive and after our first wipe, I asked whether it should only be the tank? One of the DH said he heals this all the time on an alt and it’s only 5k damage each but it didn’t seem that way to me. After our second wipe the “learn to heal noob” stuff starts. We eventually got it done but could someone confirm what the malignant spawn thing does and should there be only one person in The circle?

[potis]

Sorry to redirect this but could I do a sanity check on margrave Stradama? Just ran a +10 there with a group with 4 melee (prot pally, 2 Dh and a warr) and when the malignant spawn add came out, all 4 of them would stand in the circle. As healer it seems to me that the party damage form this was massive and after our first wipe, I asked whether it should only be the tank? One of the DH said he heals this all the time on an alt and it’s only 5k damage each but it didn’t seem that way to me. After our second wipe the “learn to heal noob” stuff starts. We eventually got it done but could someone confirm what the malignant spawn thing does and should there be only one person in The circle?

Only one person has to get hit aka the tank, your group was a bunch of noobs as usual, secondary the add should be ignored and the boss nuked to skip the phase as much as possible, cause the add is irrelevant, while her dot isnt, the add gets cleaved down passively generally.

[Temp name]

Sorry to redirect this but could I do a sanity check on margrave Stradama? Just ran a +10 there with a group with 4 melee (prot pally, 2 Dh and a warr) and when the malignant spawn add came out, all 4 of them would stand in the circle. As healer it seems to me that the party damage form this was massive and after our first wipe, I asked whether it should only be the tank? One of the DH said he heals this all the time on an alt and it’s only 5k damage each but it didn’t seem that way to me. After our second wipe the “learn to heal noob” stuff starts. We eventually got it done but could someone confirm what the malignant spawn thing does and should there be only one person in The circle?

Only tank should be in it. (Or someone with immunity if you don't want to heal the tank)

secondary the add should be ignored and the boss nuked to skip the phase as much as possible, cause the add is irrelevant, while her dot isnt, the add gets cleaved down passively generally.

Depends entirely on the level you're doing. In 10s they can be ignored though

[Malania]

That rain is my nightmare as disc priest too. I have no idea how to outheal it, while running from stuff at the same time. I guess, with 3+ disease dispels it might be doable, but with only priest dispell - no way. That rain should be nerfed, there's enough happening already.

Need to time your Rapture use for the movement sections. Time radiance and use a zombie for healing, Holy Nova, Halo or Divine Star. DS is decent if they move as a group, just hang behind and toss it.