Do most Alliance and Horde players really dislike Baine Bloodhoof?

[TheFirstOnes]

What did Cairne do? Using your Legion-BFA time table, what did Cairne do Classic to WotLK? Cairne was the damsel in distress in WC3, then helped the orcs get to Stonetalon, then fought against the Kul Tirans in Theramore. I don't remember him doing anything else. Baine was at least present during the Broken Shore, which is more than can be said for Cairne in Hyjal. Maybe I'm forgetting something Cairne did, and if so, please let me know what I've forgotten.

I'm not saying you should like Baine. I'm just questioning your admiration for Cairne given the standards you're applying to Baine.

"Cairne was the damsel in distress in WC3, then helped the orcs get to Stonetalon, then fought against the Kul Tirans in Theramore. I don't remember him doing anything else." Not really. Dude was legit one of Thrall's top bros in WC3 alongside Vol'jin, Nazgrel, and later Rexxar. Not to mention the guy not only knew that Garrosh was a shady fucker, but he also straight up challenged him to a duel AS SOON AS POSSIBLE! He only lost cause Garrosh did a shitty fucking trick put poison in his blade.

"I'm not saying you should like Baine. I'm just questioning your admiration for Cairne given the standards you're applying to Baine." Baine is literally beta Cairne. Cairne ain't the best WoW character, but I'll definitely choose him over his kid. Maybe the books did more with Baine...

Idk

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Sylvanas actually wanted him to join the Alliance - in Before the Storm, she privately wished that he would follow his heart and simply turn the tauren to the Alliance before outing him as a correspondent with Anduin.

Actually true. And considering the Tauren are actually quite peaceful with the other races of Azeroth, even after all the bloodshed, I wouldn't be mad at all if they turned Blue. But hey, now that the Horde's a council, maybe shit won't be so bad.

[GreenJesus]

"Cairne was the damsel in distress in WC3, then helped the orcs get to Stonetalon, then fought against the Kul Tirans in Theramore. I don't remember him doing anything else." Not really. Dude was legit one of Thrall's top bros in WC3 alongside Vol'jin, Nazgrel, and later Rexxar. Not to mention the guy not only knew that Garrosh was a shady fucker, but he also straight up challenged him to a duel AS SOON AS POSSIBLE! He only lost cause Garrosh did a shitty fucking trick put poison in his blade.

"I'm not saying you should like Baine. I'm just questioning your admiration for Cairne given the standards you're applying to Baine." Baine is literally beta Cairne. Cairne ain't the best WoW character, but I'll definitely choose him over his kid. Maybe the books did more with Baine...

Idk

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Actually true. And considering the Tauren are actually quite peaceful with the other races of Azeroth, even after all the bloodshed, I wouldn't be mad at all if they turned Blue. But hey, now that the Horde's a council, maybe shit won't be so bad.

How are we supposed to take anything you say seriously if you don't even know that Garrosh didn't knowingly poison the blade? Like how can you not know such a basic fact? Also, Cairne challenged Garrosh due to a misunderstanding caused by the Twilight's Hammer. Garrosh didn't even do anything wrong at that point. Then Voljin said "watch your back or I'll stab you in the back with my dagger." Garrosh literally did nothing wrong and two of his closest advisors threatened to kill him or tried to kill him basically the first week on the job. No fucking wonder he became who he was.

[Siraeyou]

I dislike Baine because his "growth" as a character doesn't even feel like it's his own. He's more of a piece meant to drive the Anduin plot forward than his own story.

[Mestalis]

I like him for being a neutral, peace-keeping character; but he is quite boring, there's almost nothing special about him, he's basically just a more generic version of Cairne.

[GreenJesus]

I like how all Baine did was get captured, yeeted off a cliff, and then now he's just sitting on the stairs poutting like he's in the time out zone since the week we rescued him. I wonder how long he can sit on those stairs with his legs out like that without losing circulation.

[TheFirstOnes]

"I mean if they invasion isn't defeated... everyone dies.

First Invasion: Majority of the Elven race was slaughtered, along with many other races. The end result was that the world was shattered, much of the landmass was now under the sea and the Well of Eternity was no more, replaced by the Maelstrom. There's more much more, but a lot of it was the Old Gods taking advantage of this invasion.
Second Invasion: Saw the creation of the Scourge, the fall of most of the human nations, the death of 90% of the High Elven race, the destruction of the Sunwell and Nordrassil and the tainting and invasion of the Night Elves lands(some Cenarius guy was killed). Because of this invasion, we had Illidan and his forces and the Lich King and his Scourge to deal with, literally 2 expansion of WoW resulted from this invasion."

Don't forget the Third Invasion: The Planet is getting attacked constantly lore-wise, Gul'dan is defeated, tons of major characters die and some of the most powerful artifacts of the Universe are founded, the Death Knights and Silver Hand duke it out kinda, the Avatar of Sargeras' husk is resurrected for a bit and Kil'jaeden dies as soon as the Pillars of Creation are placed within the Tomb, Queen Azshara and the Black Empire are slowly rising, the Emerald Nightmare was at its strongest, a massive ass space rift was created which gave the Legion (As well as Sargeras) a perfect gateway into Azeroth, the Legion in 7.3 was assaulting and slaughtering the people of Azeroth ENDLESSLY with their ships and shit, Sargeras was twisting and corrupting Azeroth while we were dismantling the Legion at their stronghold, and after meeting the Titan Pantheon and slaying a fucking World Soul...SARGERAS STABS AZEROTH BEFORE BEING IMPRISONED, and then the world started collapsing upon itself, a talking dwarf made of diamond started talking about some weird ass neck and his schizophrenia, the 2 factions started doing shit against each-other, and the worst expansion of WoW was made as a final result of Sargeras' actions.

Man, fuck the Legion. AND I'M NOT SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE THAT THE JAILER LEGIT PLAYED 5-D CHESS AGAINST SARGERAS AND THE LEGION, AS WELL AS EVERY OTHER COSMIC FORCE?!?!!?!?! Man.

[Syegfryed]

Baine is more alliance than horde, why would alliance dislike him

[Aucald]

You are the one misrepresenting what actually occurred, as explained below Taurajo was not a military target and tons of civilians were killed.

Baine admitted it was, and Baine is the acting Chieftain of the Tauren tribes - his word would be the final word on the matter at the end of the day.

What actions in said conflict, existing?

You know Taurajo was attacked only when only civilians were inside, right? You know plenty of fleeing civilians were killed.

All those people Baine declared "Military targets" simply because they were Horde.

Taurajo both outfitted and quartered soldiers of the Horde who were actively fighting, and that's what made it a target in the conflict. The Alliance General Hawthorne also gave orders not to massacre the citizenry of the camp, as well; and endeavored to give them a way to exit the attack on the camp. Taurajo was a mess on all sides, including Baine's response, but you're definitely reading a lot more into it than what's there.

Its ok to firebomb civilians when the Alliance does it according to you and Baine.

No more so than it was blow up Bael'dun and everyone in it, including a bunch of non-combatant engineers, excavators, and diggers. That's the brutal calculus of war.

More lies, the Alliance was at the gate of Mulgore and trying to burst in, you expect them to roll over and let Mulgore fall?

You're attempting to tell me what I think? Otherwise, that's exactly what happened as stated in-game. Like I said, I disagree with Baine's reasoning and feel dispensation was in order, but he made a different call. And since Baine is High Chieftain and absolute ruler of his people, his word is both edict and law whether one disagrees with it or not. Disobeying him would naturally have ramifications.

[Gann Stonespire]

No more so than it was blow up Bael'dun and everyone in it, including a bunch of non-combatant engineers, excavators, and diggers. That's the brutal calculus of war.

Dude, you literally just compared a giant cannon death fortress of death filled only with military personal actively involved in Genocide to a camp full of innocent people who couldn't dfight.

You do realize the only reason, Bael'dun' and its criminal military occupants invaded the land they made said fortress was to attack the Horde by their own admission.


You do realize Twinbraid's was a giant cannon death fortress and Gann only sabotaged its cannon so when they fired, they got a taste of their own medicine. The only people inside were LOL at Bael'Dun rifleman, Bael'Dun Soldier, and Bael'dun Officer, military scumbags actively involved in warcrimes including the genocide of the Stonespire Tribe.

And whilst the excavators weren't in the explosion, they broke the laws of archaeology by taking the land of the natives, were the ones who called in the miltiary to kill everybody and were planning to conquer the Horde as a whole. In real life, archaeologists who excavacate without the permission of the natives are rightfully treated as criminals.

I should hope you apologize for this statement, because its warped as hell with disturbing subtext.

[Aucald]

Dude, you literally just compared a giant cannon death fortress of death filled only with military personal actively involved in Genocide to a camp full of innocent people who couldn't dfight.

You do realize the only reason, Bael'dun' and its criminal military occupants invaded the land they made said fortress was to attack the Horde by their own admission.

You should read the journal you quoted, as it's really just a prospector's notes on the original digsite, and one who literally says he's a strategic novice a noted that the fortress' location may be a good one from a military standpoint - that's far from the fortress being a solely military outpost, and the fact that the fortress had diggers and excavators in it also belies your point about its occupancy (as in it was not solely military). The same is true for Camp Taurajo, as well.

You do realize Twinbraid's was a giant cannon death fortress and Gann only sabotaged its cannon so when they fired, they got a taste of their own medicine. The only people inside were LOL at Bael'Dun rifleman, Bael'Dun Soldier, and Bael'dun Officer, military scumbags actively involved in warcrimes including the genocide of the Stonespire Tribe.

And Bael'dun Excavators, Bael'dun Foremen, and any number of people trapped inside its later ruin.

And whilst the excavators weren't in the explosion, they broke the laws of archaeology by taking the land of the natives, were the ones who called in the miltiary to kill everybody and were planning to conquer the Horde as a whole. In real life, archaeologists who excavacate without the permission of the natives are rightfully treated as criminals.

The "laws of archaeology?" There aren't any to speak of, really. While I'd agree that the Dwarves weren't welcome there and should've left when the Tauren first asked them to, that's neither here nor there in terms of what we're discussing. The point is that the Horde responded in kind for what occurred at Camp Taurajo, not to mention Warlord Bloodhilt's penchant for staking the corpses of Alliance leaders along the Gold Road as a terror tactic.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Sad to see how the hate for Baine persists after all these years.

I remember when we were speculating who would be the next Warchief of the Horde during the leadup to Siege in 2013 and I was vouching for Baine. IIRC he was the next popular choice after Vol'jin, and the third most popular choice was Lor'themar.

But nooooooo Vol'jin died doing nothing and then Suevanas became warchief. And now Baine is hated.

[Gann Stonespire]

You should read the journal you quoted, as it's really just a prospector's notes on the original digsite, and one who literally says he's a strategic novice a noted that the fortress' location may be a good one from a military standpoint - that's far from the fortress being a solely military outpost,

It was literally a giant cannon filled only with soldeirs.

and the fact that the fortress had diggers and excavators in it also belies your point about its occupancy (as in it was not solely military). The same is true for Camp Taurajo, as well.

There were no diggers or excavators in there and your Links prove you wrong.

https://www.wowhead.com/npc=39219/ba...-credit#models

Look at the model section, its only Rifleman, stop lying to defend Baine.

Meanwhile Taurajo was all civilians when it was firebombed in contrast to Bael'Dun's no civilians and only there as foreign invaders there to pillage the land and harass the natives.

Oh those poor Bael'dun soldiers directly involved in genocide.

And Bael'dun Excavators, Bael'dun Foremen, and any number of people trapped inside its later ruin.

Please do basic research, those people were all outside and not in the fortress. You can even see in the screenshot background, they're not in the fortress. You are literally passing blatant lies in your poorly written argument in favor of poor defenseless invasive warcriminals!

https://www.wowhead.com/npc=39219/ba...-credit#models

For Hell's sake, look at this page and the model section, thats explicitly the rifleman models on display with no excavators in sight! This is a blatant lie on your end and now you really should apologize!

The "laws of archaeology?" There aren't any to speak of, really. While I'd agree that the Dwarves weren't welcome there and should've left when the Tauren first asked them to, that's neither here nor there in terms of what we're discussing. The point is that the Horde responded in kind for what occurred at Camp Taurajo, not to mention Warlord Bloodhilt's penchant for staking the corpses of Alliance leaders along the Gold Road as a terror tactic.

Bombing a town fill of civilians in their own home whilst all combatants is a terror tactic, Bloodhilt only killed those in the military.


Nice job whitewashing for actual genocide and a cannon fortress of death with no civilians in it. Oh and posting straight up lies.

[Aleax]

This character as horde warchief would be the reason I would sympathise with Horde for once. Until then, it is war (mostly). I voted first option.

[Aucald]

It was literally a giant cannon filled only with soldeirs.

If you look at the NPC's present in the subzone, you see otherwise. The Explorer's League is still a presence in the Keep.

There were no diggers or excavators in there and your Links prove you wrong.

https://www.wowhead.com/npc=39219/ba...-credit#models

Look at the model section, its only Rifleman, stop lying to defend Baine.

Meanwhile Taurajo was all civilians when it was firebombed in contrast to Bael'Dun's no civilians and only there as foreign invaders there to pillage the land and harass the natives.

Oh those poor Bael'dun soldiers directly involved in genocide.

That's just the random models involved in the single quest, but the subzone info above shows that Explorer's League NPC's are still present and account for the non-combatants. You're also misusing the term "genocide" pretty badly here - Taurajo was a massacre, definitely, but it by no means even approached the standard for genocide.

Please do basic research, those people were all outside and not in the fortress. You can even see in the screenshot background, they're not in the fortress. You are literally passing blatant lies in your poorly written argument in favor of poor defenseless invasive warcriminals!

https://www.wowhead.com/npc=39219/ba...-credit#models

For Hell's sake, look at this page and the model section, thats explicitly the rifleman models on display with no excavators in sight! This is a blatant lie on your end and now you really should apologize!

An exploding fortress is going to do a lot of damage to the surrounding area, so it likely killed and injured those stationed outside and in its general proximity as well. Unless you think the explosion was entirely contained to the interior of the fortress and was somehow able to discern and completely miss non-military personnel. Random models don't really tell the whole story - and if you want to go by that metric, the massacre of Taurajo appears to only have killed four NPC's in total (as per the quest "Honoring the Dead"). Of course, I don't think that's meant to be taken as a literal body-count, but since you seem to be hung up on quests being used as the standard, we'll say Taurajo only involved 4 confirmed deaths.

Bombing a town fill of civilians in their own home whilst all combatants is a terror tactic, Bloodhilt only killed those in the military.

Nice job whitewashing for actual genocide and a cannon fortress of death with no civilians in it. Oh and posting straight up lies.

Bloodhilt killed his own people, too; I don't think he'd discriminate when it comes to free market murder. You're being a bit blinded by your own partisanship here, as well - what happened at Taurajo was terrible but it was neither genocide nor, in the greater scope of the Horde/Alliance conflict, really even that huge of an event. You might be able to call it an atrocity, but compared to the atrocities that've happened in Azeroth's successive wars it's still relatively minor.

[Soon-TM]

I dislike Baine because his "growth" as a character doesn't even feel like it's his own. He's more of a piece meant to drive the Anduin plot forward than his own story.

If the God King is the Sun of the Warcraft universe, which everything and everyone revolves around, Baine would be an asteroid, i.e. a much lesser entity who barely appears on the radar. And even when he does, he doesn't shine with light of his own, but borrows it from someone else - namely tHe DaUGhTeR Of tEh sEaz or the God King, as of late.

[Gann Stonespire]

If you look at the NPC's present in the subzone, you see otherwise. The Explorer's League is still a presence in the Keep.

Quit lying.

I've done the quest many times, only soldiers are inside. Even Marley mentioned scouting for the military and personally killed tauren by his own admission.

https://youtu.be/KXgWH7I0rZc?t=374

Watch this video, he explores the whole keep, there's not a single civilian in sight, everyone is a soldier and the keep is filled with weapons.

Comparing it to Taurajo is a false equivalence and you need to apologize for it.

That's just the random models involved in the single quest, but the subzone info above shows that Explorer's League NPC's are still present and account for the non-combatants.

Nope, all the excavators are in the very deep digsite and no where near the keep, try again and apologize for your lies.

You're also misusing the term "genocide" pretty badly here - Taurajo was a massacre, definitely, but it by no means even approached the standard for genocide.

I'm referring to the Stonespire tribe genocide, read my posts.

Wiping out a tribe to the point its considered lost solely to steal their land and resources is textbook genocide.

Read this link to find the definition of genocide.

This is almost as bad as that person who said blowing up Bael'dun, a fort filled only with invasive Dwarf Soldiers directly involved in genocide and warcrimes, was genocide.

An exploding fortress is going to do a lot of damage to the surrounding area, so it likely killed and injured those stationed outside and in its general proximity as well. Unless you think the explosion was entirely contained to the interior of the fortress and was somehow able to discern and completely miss non-military personnel. Random models don't really tell the whole story - and if you want to go by that metric, the massacre of Taurajo appears to only have killed four NPC's in total (as per the quest "Honoring the Dead").

The digsite is very deep and far away from the Keep, there were none killed in the explosion.

Nice job posting straight up lies.

Of course, I don't think that's meant to be taken as a literal body-count, but since you seem to be hung up on quests being used as the standard, we'll say Taurajo only involved 4 confirmed deaths.

Kirge Sternhorn mentions his wife was killed and many others mention the dead. Bael'dun was a fortress filled with weapons of mass destruction built only after genociding the real natives and for the purpose of harassing the Horde to begin with.

This is a textbook false equivalence.

Bloodhilt killed his own people, too; I don't think he'd discriminate when it comes to free market murder.

You mean he killed the guy who let the tauren die, such a tragedy.

You're being a bit blinded by your own partisanship here, as well - what happened at Taurajo was terrible but it was neither genocide nor, in the greater scope of the Horde/Alliance conflict, really even that huge of an event.

Quit ignoring my posts.


I said the dwarves of Bael'dun committed genocide because of what they did to Gann's tribe, the guy in my username for christ's sakes.

Pay attention.

You might be able to call it an atrocity, but compared to the atrocities that've happened in Azeroth's successive wars it's still relatively minor.

My point with Taurajo is Baine called the murder of his civilians legitimate.

And as pointed out, Bael'dun keep was a fortress with zero civilians in it and its inhabitants had directly taken part in genocide and were only there to harass the Horde to begin with.

All you've done is made Baine look worse by showing his defenders make whitewash blatant Alliance warcriminals and say the deaths of Alliance warcriminals are worse then the deaths of Horde civilians.

You need to apologize for your lies and literal defense of imperialistic genocidal criminals

[Aucald]

I've done the quest many times, only soldiers are inside. Even Marley mentioned scouting for the military and personally killed tauren by his own admission.

https://youtu.be/KXgWH7I0rZc?t=374

Watch this video, he explores the whole keep, there's not a single civilian in sight, everyone is a soldier and the keep is filled with weapons.

Comparing it to Taurajo is a false equivalence and you need to apologize for it.

So have I, no, and also no. There's also more to the Bael'Dun complex than the area you see in-game, as can be seen by flyover in this video.

I'm referring to the Stonespire tribe genocide, read my posts.

Wiping out a tribe to the point its considered lost solely to steal their land and resources is textbook genocide.

Read this link to find the definition of genocide.

This is almost as bad as that person who said blowing up Bael'dun, a fort filled only with invasive Dwarf Soldiers directly involved in genocide and warcrimes, was genocide.

Still not a genocide. The Stonespire Tribe isn't a distinct people from their fellow Tauren - in point of fact, Tauren "tribes" are generally just extended families in most cases.

The digsite is very deep and far away from the Keep, there were none killed in the explosion.

Kirge Sternhorn mentions his wife was killed and many others mention the dead. Bael'dun was a fortress filled with weapons of mass destruction built only after genociding the real natives and for the purpose of harassing the Horde to begin with.

But we have no in-game evidence that what Kirge Sternhorn said was true, and that's the metric you seem to want to use. You can't have one rule for Taurajo and another for Bael'dun, after all. You either accept collateral damages beyond what is presented in-game, or you stick with only what we're able to see in-game.

I said the dwarves of Bael'dun committed genocide because of what they did to Gann's tribe, the guy in my username for christ's sakes.

And I think you're still misusing the term, either way you try to apply it in this case.

My point with Taurajo is Baine called the murder of his civilians legitimate.

And as pointed out, Bael'dun keep was a fortress with zero civilians in it and its inhabitants had directly taken part in genocide and were only there to harass the Horde to begin with.

All you've done is made Baine look worse by showing his defenders make whitewash blatant Alliance warcriminals and say the deaths of Alliance warcriminals are worse then the deaths of Horde civilians.

He said Taurajo made itself a legitimate target in the war, but like Hawthorne himself he decried the deaths of civilians that occurred. These two things can be true at the same time. We disagree on the compliment of Bael'dun, so for now that will remain an open question until you decide the metric you actually wish to use as opposed to trying to have your cake and eat your cake simultaneously. I'm also not "defending" Baine, as I've already said multiple times now that I didn't agree with his approach to the Taurajo survivors, something you continually gloss over as you wax lyrical on your relative soapbox.

[Gann Stonespire]

So have I, no, and also no. There's also more to the Bael'Dun complex than the area you see in-game, as can be seen by flyover in this video.

All the archaeologists are away from the keep in that video and not even near it, thus far from the explosion.

This is just like how you linked Bael'Dun survivor to prove excavators were inside when your own link showed said people were all soldiers. But whatever, I'm actually disgusted with you as a person for what you said below.

Still not a genocide. The Stonespire Tribe isn't a distinct people from their fellow Tauren

Dictionary definition of tribe: a social division in a traditional society consisting of families or communities linked by social, economic, religious, or blood ties, with a common culture and dialect, typically having a recognized leader.


They're a distinct culture with their own land whose leader is ancient and has lived in the barrens for generations.

Whole populations of uncontacted tribes are being wiped out by genocidal violence from outsiders who steal their land and resources, and by diseases like flu and measles to which they have no resistance.



Nice job literally whitewashing colonialism and western imperialism by saying tribes don't count as a nation or ethnic group! You have no idea, how offended I am that you brought this to justify your view in a topic about a video game!

- in point of fact, Tauren "tribes" are generally just extended families in most cases.

Utter kodocrap, in fact Reign of Chaos just featured the Bloodhoof tauren and they were a whole group.

But we have no in-game evidence that what Kirge Sternhorn said was true, and that's the metric you seem to want to use. You can't have one rule for Taurajo and another for Bael'dun, after all. You either accept collateral damages beyond what is presented in-game, or you stick with only what we're able to see in-game.

I'm taking this from someone who is saying "Wiping out an entire of native people isn't genocide, because the human race is still alive."

You are making up facts, there are zero excavators even near the fortress.

And I think you're still misusing the term, either way you try to apply it in this case.

Aucald read this link

https://www.survivalinternational.or...ribes/genocide


[B]Your ignorance and horrible statements are genuinely offensive.

We disagree on the compliment of Bael'dun

I literally proved there were no soldiers there and you claiming the excavation was inside is blatant false information.

And now you're justifying the extermination of real life indigenous people because tribes don't count as people in your warped brain. I'm not even responding to the rest, because I'm so offended by your repeat and unapologetic claims that killing an entire of native people is not genocide.

Realize the awful real life implications of what you just stated here and apologize!

[Aucald]

Dictionary definition of tribe: a social division in a traditional society consisting of families or communities linked by social, economic, religious, or blood ties, with a common culture and dialect, typically having a recognized leader.


They're a distinct culture with their own land whose leader is ancient and has lived in the barrens for generations.

Whole populations of uncontacted tribes are being wiped out by genocidal violence from outsiders who steal their land and resources, and by diseases like flu and measles to which they have no resistance.



Nice job literally whitewashing colonialism and western imperialism by saying tribes don't count as a nation or ethnic group! You have no idea, how offended I am that you brought this to justify your view in a topic about a video game!

I think you're going pretty off the rails now. One, we're talking about events in a video game, not real life - if you can't even show a pretense of basic separation between the two, there's little in the way of common ground we can have. The dictionary definition of the word "tribe" has no bearing on genocide as a concept - the Stonespire are not a unique and isolate subset of the Tauren, and the deaths of a handful of Tauren don't constitute genocide by any means. This isn't to say that death in any form isn't awful in an of itself, but it'd be tantamount to calling the murder of a single person a genocide because they're the only one of that person in existence.

Utter kodocrap, in fact Reign of Chaos just featured the Bloodhoof tauren and they were a whole group.

Thus the "extended" descriptor previously used. The point is that the Tauren tribes aren't really a separate people, they're all interrelated under a collective of the Tauren people. The loss of a single tribe isn't genocide. Now if someone annihilated all the Taunka, or the Highmountain Tauren, that would probably qualify as a genocide. As would decimating Mulgore and all its people. You're conflating mass killings and genocide.

I'm taking this from someone who is saying "Wiping out an entire of native people isn't genocide, because the human race is still alive."

You are making up facts, there are zero excavators even near the fortress.

They're in the game files, tagged as being in the Bael'dun zone, and present as of Cata. They were definitely effected by the explosion of their home.

I literally proved there were no soldiers there and you claiming the excavation was inside is blatant false information.

No, you have yet to prove that conclusively, as evidenced by the fact they're still in the area (e.g. Bael'dun Excavator). Whether inside the fortress or nearby makes no difference when you're talking about an explosion capable of leveling an entire fortress complex.

[Gann Stonespire]

I think you're going pretty off the rails now. One, we're talking about events in a video game, not real life - if you can't even show a pretense of basic separation between the two, there's little in the way of common ground we can have.

You saying exterminating an entire tribe of native people with their own religion who've lived on their land for decades is not genocide has incredibly awful real life implications you need to realize and apologize for!

The dictionary definition of the word "tribe" has no bearing on genocide as a concept - the Stonespire are not a unique and isolate subset of the Tauren, and the deaths of a handful of Tauren don't constitute genocide by any means.

You're speaking out of your butt.

But I cannot forgive those who drove us from our ancestral lands as easily as some. My people inhabited the southern Barrens for decades. The land was holy to us. But we were driven off by numerous foes.


A Stonespire here talks about his tribe's specific religion, specific home they've lived in for decades and their culture. You are so full of it to say they're just tauren just like any other.

You should apologize if you ever wish to be taken seriously again.

Thus the "extended" descriptor previously used. The point is that the Tauren tribes aren't really a separate people, they're all interrelated under a collective of the Tauren people.

The above quote literally talked about the Stonespire's unique culture and territory in the barrens.

The dwarves of Bael Modan show no respect for my land. Horrendous blasts drive holes deep into the ground as noisy machines rip apart the hills. Lands which once served as home and provider to my tribe are now riddled with destructive dwarves.


Yeah, the Stonespire of the southern barrens are just like all the other tauren in the barrens.

The loss of a single tribe isn't genocide.

OK, dude this is a hella offensive statement.


Even without the repeat statements about Stonespire's unique religion and way of life, things like the Grimtotem show tauren tribes do not share the exact culture and traditions.

Now if someone annihilated all the Taunka, or the Highmountain Tauren, that would probably qualify as a genocide.

Now if someone annihilated all of human race, that would count as genocide, but not simply annihilating this specific tribe of people with their own culture and beliefs - Aucald

As would decimating Mulgore and all its people. You're conflating mass killings and genocide.

You are conflating extinction of a race and genocide.


Genocide is defined as:

* the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group


As all the links I posted show, wiping out a tribe of native people with their own beliefs, culture and history is textbook genocide.

They're in the game files, tagged as being in the Bael'dun zone,

They're in the very deep digsite, not the fortress, quit lying, you are not fooling anyone!

and present as of Cata. They were definitely effected by the explosion of their home.

Nope, they make no mention of it and the only people we see hurt are soldiers involved in genocide. And even if they did, they called the soldiers to do criminal digging, imperialism and actual genocide.

No, you have yet to prove that conclusively, as evidenced by the fact they're still in the area (e.g. Bael'dun Excavator).

Your ignorance astounds me. All the archaelogists were in the gigantic hole, quite far from the fortress and the explosion as you can see in this video.

You're literally whitewashing genocidal and racist warcriminals in your sorry attempt to defend Baine.

Whether inside the fortress or nearby makes no difference when you're talking about an explosion cable of leveling an entire fortress complex.

The pit is gigantic and has its own tents, they're a far distance.

You're not fooling anyone with your blatant lies and should apologize for saying killing an entire tribe is not genocide! It makes you come off as a disgusting person IRL!
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