This loot system has to go.

[arkanon]

If you really think that it's a minority then you haven't been playing Shadowlands.

I'm not saying you are wrong - I wouldn't pretend to know what the majority / minority of players think in a game as large as wow, and would never use a tiny niche group like forum posters as a good cross section of players. All I know for sure is that the group I play with have no strong feelings at all about the loot system currently, with a few really enjoying it.

Just as im sure the group you are playing with all hate it.

[mar11757]

I am 215+ on 3 characters doing heroic raiding, mythic plus, and pvp. Are we playing the same game?

[TheRevenantHero]

I'm not saying you are wrong - I wouldn't pretend to know what the majority / minority of players think in a game as large as wow, and would never use a tiny niche group like forum posters as a good cross section of players. All I know for sure is that the group I play with have no strong feelings at all about the loot system currently, with a few really enjoying it.

Just as im sure the group you are playing with all hate it.

The group I play with is pretty much the entire pve playerbase. I've not come across a single person that is happy with drop rates in pve. Anyone who enjoys it are probably Classic fans too. If people want shit loot drop chances, they should just go play Classic.

[arkanon]

The group I play with is pretty much the entire pve playerbase. I've not come across a single person that is happy with drop rates in pve. Anyone who enjoys it are probably Classic fans too. If people want shit loot drop chances, they should just go play Classic.

None of us pvp at all, and although some of us did play classic, it certainly wasnt for the loot.

[Darkeon]

I am 215+ on 3 characters doing heroic raiding, mythic plus, and pvp. Are we playing the same game?

You gotta get into shadowlands, man. Chars stuck in previous expansions prior to squish aren't valid in these discussions.

[Gref]

another week of hc raiding. The only boss which I do not need anything is sludgefist. And guess what I got an item from him. Previous week 0 loot. The week before 0 loot. Previous weeks as well. All my items come from mythic dungeons and the weekly vault. I was given the necklace by a guildie. What an utter bullshit. After killing 10 bosses, I should at least be guaranteed 2 items.

[Th3Scourge]

Bring

Back

Master

Loot

[ellieg]

you all got super lucky then.
because the normal i am seeing is not this. the game is not fine.
do you even look at the official forums?

Lol official forums. Every post on there is someone bitching. Really wouldn't get the "feel" of the playerbase by looking on there.

[huth]

If you really think that it's a minority then you haven't been playing Shadowlands.

No, i'm just pointing out that you're not making any actual case for your claim. The only source we have for it not being a minority is you.

The group I play with is pretty much the entire pve playerbase.

No, it's not. It's a tiny fraction of that, and it's not a fully randomised sample.

[Glorious Leader]

I mean if you are only doing m0s, LFR and WQs and barely caring about doing anything above a +4 in M+ and not stepping into raiding (real raiding, not lfr) or PvP then yeah you should be lower than people that do these contents
thats how life is supposed to be too

Aside from the fact that real life virtually never operates on this principle why do you think replicating that model is a good idea for a game that people primarily play as escapism?

[Argorwal]

I think mainly that raids should drop 1 item per 5 people (4 for 20).

But, the biggest outlier is PvP. And I want to say I’m happy PvP gearing is better than Legion and BFA. Especially the vendors.

Where I feel it double dips is allowing PvP weekly chest items to be further upgraded.

Right now PvP gear is gated by skill (rating) and time (weekly conquest cap). Having the PvP vendor is a massive boon to defeat RNG, and its offset with the timegate of conquest.

BUT, allowing great vault PvP gear to be upgradable is where the double dipping happens and lets you bypass the time gate. You can take a 200 item level vault item from week 1 and upgrade it to 226 later once the rating is reached. THAT is a massive advantage and it circumventing the timegating set up to act as a balance for having a vendor.

Also mythic+ end of dungeon gear should drop 2 items always.

[TheRevenantHero]

No, i'm just pointing out that you're not making any actual case for your claim. The only source we have for it not being a minority is you.



No, it's not. It's a tiny fraction of that, and it's not a fully randomised sample.

Right. All the threads about it are clearly lying.

[huth]

Right. All the threads about it are clearly lying.

"All the threads" is a miniscule sample that is inherently biased because people complain more than they praise things and the vast majority never visits the forums. It's not viable evidence.

[TheRevenantHero]

"All the threads" is a miniscule sample that is inherently biased because people complain more than they praise things and the vast majority never visits the forums. It's not viable evidence.

Ok I'm not even going to bother anymore. You are purposely being contrary now.

[T-34]

Aside from the fact that real life virtually never operates on this principle why do you think replicating that model is a good idea for a game that people primarily play as escapism?

Because WoW is a competitive multi-player game and it wouldn't be a game if your reward to some degree wasn't based on your effort/skill.

[chiddie]

I am 215+ on 3 characters doing heroic raiding, mythic plus, and pvp. Are we playing the same game?

Probably not, due to the fact the other 99% of players have incidentally a life to live out of Azeroth too (as one of the loading tips says).

- - - Updated - - -

Alternatively he's right in that only a VERY SMALL number of people actually post on forums and nine times out of ten it'll be people whining about something. Tell the class again how this is garbage game design.

He’s right but it’s not that “the vast majority” don’t post because everything’s fine, they don’t post and simply stop playing.

[Kallisto]

This loot system is the result of people listening to "community figures" like Preach and Asmongold.

With titanforging and bountiful loot drops, you would reach +-90% of your best possible gear relatively quick and then slowly work towards BiS with diminishing returns, with full BiS being mostly unobtainable. Gear was not gating progression.

With the new system, you are actively gated by gear from progressing. Try clearing a 15+ in 207 14+ gear. I dare you. See how well it goes.

In a game with quaternary progression resets, gear should never feel slow to acquire nor should a lack of gear prevent you from progressing.

Preach and Asmongold have two very separate ideals when it comes to loot and gear. The two even had a calm argument over it for nearly 30 minutes during one allcraft episode.

[TheRevenantHero]

Alternatively he's right in that only a VERY SMALL number of people actually post on forums and nine times out of ten it'll be people whining about something. Tell the class again how this is garbage game design.

I've said it numerous times. I'll say it once more. Making pvp the only reliable way to get loot is 100% garbage game design. If I'm someone who focuses on pve, I should never be forced into doing a game mode I want nothing to do with. But loot drops are incredibly scarce in pve while pvp is getting showered with loot. As I said before, that's total shit game design.

- - - Updated - - -

Probably not, due to the fact the other 99% of players have incidentally a life to live out of Azeroth too (as one of the loading tips says).

- - - Updated - - -


He’s right but it’s not that “the vast majority” don’t post because everything’s fine, they don’t post and simply stop playing.

Yup, exactly. I'm not going to keep a subscription going if I do raids and dungeons with nothing to show for it when I'm done. I'm not increasing my power much at all in pve yet people doing pvp are buried under loot. It's horrendous.

[shise]

It is great

None should have full epics yet. We got way to spoiler over the past. But then again, it should be equal for all somehow.

[Kikazz]

At least consult a gearing guide before ranting mate. There's no reason to have sub 184 items. You literally get 190 items from honor.

im literally sitting in 197 gear in every slot, my great vault has given me 5 trinkets and 1 weapon choice, this week i got trinkets boots and weapons.

but legit i have done 4 raids with the guild, and gotten 1 item.
that is 40 raid bosses, and 1 friggen item.
Classic wasnt even this bad, i have legit gone 4 weeks without an item upgrade all.

yes you could say i should do higher keys, but i work 15 hour days, 6 days a week.

they made the game more casual freindly, then turned it up to 50 with the flip of a button when most of the playerbase couldnt commit 3-4 hours a night to keep up to try and get gear.