Philadelphia cops demanding a 5% "accountability bonus pay" for wearing Body Cams.

[Shadowferal]

This is literally the Nuremberg defense.

This is literal Godwin. They already did an investigation on the shenanigans on the summer shit...and that was conclusion then. If you don't like those conclusions...too fucking bad. Stop giving leadership a pass.

[Elegiac]

This is literal Godwin.

Good to know you can't actually dispute that it's a fallacious defense.

They already did an investigation on the shenanigans on the summer shit...and that was conclusion then.

Who's "they"? Couldn't possibly be the same flawed system of IA that people are also protesting, right?

[Mihalik]

This is literal Godwin. They already did an investigation on the shenanigans on the summer shit...and that was conclusion then. If you don't like those conclusions...too fucking bad. Stop giving leadership a pass.

As bad as the leadership is or might be, the cops doing the killings, violence, abuses are responsible for the things they do. And leadership is responsible for letting that fly, for enabling, fomenting and even encouraging it.

It's a systemic problem. That's why we need to "Defund the police" and not "Defund officer Jackson and Commissioner Peterson" or whatnot.

The problem is systematic. It's not a few bad apples. It's a spoiled basket with a few good apples in it.

[the game]

They should get it. with the assumption that they aren't allowed or not able to turn the cameras off then that means they will be recorded all the time. Including doing things like going to the bathroom. That is an invasion of privacy or eating lunch.

[Elegiac]

They should get it. with the assumption that they aren't allowed or not able to turn the cameras off then that means they will be recorded all the time. Including doing things like going to the bathroom. That is an invasion of privacy or eating lunch.

You assume wrong because “on duty” does not include breaks any more than “on the clock” includes breaks. Rofl.

The way police moan about being recorded on the job just shows how snowflakey they actually are and that they wouldn’t last a day in customer service. Waffle House employees are better at deescalation.

[segara82]

14 x 1.24 is 17, hun.



That's the thing though, I'm not recommending their workload be increased. I'm recommending their responsibilities be carved off and given to other services who actually merit a pay increase.

Sure, but from 100% to 124% is either 1,24 times more dangerous or 24% more dangerous. 124% more dangerous is 224% of the danger.

I too argue for their workload to be redistributed to better suited services. But i disagree that their budget should be cut as well since they got no extra funding to deal with the extra work.
Once further services are up and running the cost of the police will go down by itself, making a fair(er) discussion about their budget able. Otherwise they will have to look for the usual ways to save/make money. Like buying surplus military equipment for a fraction of the price as proper police equipment and civil forfeiture abuse.

[Elegiac]

Sure, but from 100% to 124% is either 1,24 times more dangerous or 24% more dangerous. 124% more dangerous is 224% of the danger.

Again, 14 x 1.24 is 17. It's 124% more dangerous which is correct English usage, and besides the point because it demonstrates many lower paid professions are significantly more dangerous but don't have anywhere near the level of privilege that police do.

I too argue for their workload to be redistributed to better suited services.

But i disagree that their budget should be cut as well

This is a contradiction. They should not be getting paid for responsibilities they aren't supposed to be handling.

Your argument is based on an incredibly warped perception of law enforcement in America, sweaty. The institutional rot isn't just a function of a high workload - it has to do with the core basis of policing in this country.

[Daedius]

Should be law to always have a body cam, with disciplinary actions for not having or tampering with recording... with the latter being a felony.

[segara82]

Again, 14 x 1.24 is 17. It's 124% more dangerous which is correct English usage, and besides the point because it demonstrates many lower paid professions are significantly more dangerous but don't have anywhere near the level of privilege that police do.



This is a contradiction. They should not be getting paid for responsibilities they aren't supposed to be handling.

Your argument is based on an incredibly warped perception of law enforcement in America, sweaty. The institutional rot isn't just a function of a high workload - it has to do with the core basis of policing in this country.

Difference in language and therefore interpretation of those numbers. Not to mention they only go by deaths/100.000, but not by assaults and non-fatal encounters. Yes, there are jobs with higher chances to die, but they do not have to deal with the numbers of assaults like a cop Trees and bushes rarely attack groundkeepers, now do they?


It is not a contradiction when you use the full sentence, not just the first half.

[Shadowferal]

Politics. This will be going into arbitration.

[Mihalik]

They should get it. with the assumption that they aren't allowed or not able to turn the cameras off then that means they will be recorded all the time. Including doing things like going to the bathroom. That is an invasion of privacy or eating lunch.

Body cams when they are on "active duty". You don't take a piss or grab lunch on active duty. If it would be otherwise it would be called a "Privacy bonus".

So no. Fuck them. They shouldn't get. At least not on the premise of an "accountability bonus".

[Endus]

What the hell man, are you joking?

Of course demanding to be paid extra for not being a dick is bullshit but your response is even more so. Presumption of innocence is presumption of innocence. No buts. The police in the US has a lot of flaws I guess but this is not a way to improve it at all.

You seem to not realize that the police in the USA have a special degree of presumed innocence, far beyond what regular citizens enjoy.

I was talking about reducing their protections to the same level as everyone's, nothing more. They fire their weapon and kill a suspect in the course of their duties? They're arrested until the facts can be examined and it can be determined that it was a lawful use of force, like anyone else who committed a homicide would be. They can't provide evidence to support their use of force other than their word? Then it was murder, plain and simple. Those should be the standard presumptions, not an assumption that all use of force was legitimate and needs only the barest of justifications, like the killer saying he totally thought he saw something.

You know, like it would work for literally anyone else.

A cop shouldn't be given any more benefit of the doubt in such circumstances than a black kid who's known to be a dealer for a particular gang. If you'd prosecute the gang member, you prosecute the cop, to the same expectations of evidence. No special rules. Simple.

Edit: I feel weird using a "black kid" as my hypothetical, so let me clarify that the intent was to target other people's prejudices and make a comment on systemic racism in the US legal system, not some condemnation by myself that the kid "deserves" worse treatment because he's black. Just wanted that intent to be crystal, here.

[downnola]

And the homicide rate continue to trend higher in Philadelphia. After 500 murders last year one would think differently.

Murders are up in most cities in 2020. It's mostly due to Coronavirus shutting down schools and causing mass unemployment. In other words, what's needed is more public assistance and vaccine deployment so people can get back to school, work, and allow public outreach programs to do their jobs, not more encouragement of a fascist police state.

[Shadowferal]

Murders are up in most cities in 2020. It's mostly due to Coronavirus shutting down schools and causing mass unemployment. In other words, what's needed is more public assistance and vaccine deployment so people can get back to school, work, and allow public outreach programs to do their jobs, not more encouragement of a fascist police state.

Again that's not it.
It's about leadership denying accountability. The police get that 5%, the mayor and his administration get to dodge public scrutiny, and cameras get worn. A "win" for all.

[Naiattavain]

people need to know what happens to police.

[priicle]

Overtime for having to appear in court during days off, however, is reasonable. Not triple overtime, but overtime at least.

[LilSaihah]

The implicit opposite that they can forgo the bonus and therefore become unaccountable is kinda funny.

This is so dumb.

[Edge-]

I did not claim it is the deadliest job, just that the job entails risks others do not. Law enforcement agencies reported that 89 officers died (48 feloniously, 41 accidently) and 56,034 officers were assaulted while performing their duties in 2019. The rate of officer assaults in 2019 was 11.8 per 100 sworn officers.

I'd hazard quite a bit has to do with the utter lack of training and the frequent tendencies of law enforcement officers to escalate situations to violence.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/12/n...dly-force.html

Because when you look abroad, there's no analog with developed nations and the way they manage to handle violent situations without injury to themselves and suspects remains pretty foreign and inconceivable to US cops.

Unless Americans and American police are just inherently WAY more fuckin violent which would be like, a weird take to have in this.

That being said, fuck their 5% "accountability bonus". Were they not being accountable beforehand? Because that sure makes it seem like they weren't being accountable. If you need to be "rewarded" with a "bonus" for being accountable, you should be fired on the spot.

[Shadowferal]

Were they not being accountable beforehand? Because that sure makes it seem like they weren't being accountable. If you need to be "rewarded" with a "bonus" for being accountable, you should be fired on the spot.

Investigations dude...they keep having them and the blame falls on leadership. The mayor and the commissioner...but no one mentions leadership...always the peon's fault. He shouldn't have been ordered to use tear gas...o but...
And this will be why the police will get paid.

[PosPosPos]

Investigations dude...they keep having them and the blame falls on leadership. The mayor and the commissioner...but no one mentions leadership...always the peon's fault. He shouldn't have been ordered to use tear gas...o but...
And this will be why the police will get paid.

Because the Nuremberg defense is not a valid one.

And before you scream "Godwin Godwin" like it means anything again(it doesn't, the Godwin himself stated it's perfectly okay to invoke Nazism-related topics if it's relevant), there's also the much more recent example in "Trump told me to do it" not being a valid defense either.

Just shut up and stop defending domestic terrorists.