Cyberpunk 2077

[Polyxo]

Maybe, in that case Deus Ex still is pretty legendary, at least the original games. IIRC CP77 creators did reference the series as inspiration for a lot of stuff (which, honestly, seems both obvious and reasonable/smart approach).
They did finish the static part of the game - the city itself - best ever fantasy one in my book, nothing comes closes to being so realistic, yet made up. Especialy at night...
As for the rest, yeah, they failed to "fill it", which is why I said before that the game is done to roughly 70%. It is probably everything together - time limits, lack of skill (making static buildings should be easier than making interactive stuff), design changes, pressure from above, etc.

Maybe it will be cult classic decade later. But in the current form? I doubt that very much, only NMS approach, or nothing else.

I know supposedly their next big game is another Witcher title. That's fine, I'm super stoked about it too. I hope they don't abandon the IP after this though. Some expansions could really be great for the game, and they've invested a lot of time and effort into some really great systems that work for Cyberpunk, and I want to see them perfect them and add more to it in a "Cyberpunk 2078/2079/whatever".

[Tarba]

I don't know on what kind of garbage pirated copy people play on to complain so much about bugs (except old gen consoles). On pc I did two runs and I had one actual bug where I would be teleported 500 meters away when trying to go threw a specific window. It was corrected at the time of my second run.
And that's all. It has some little glitches like all complexe games. And can clearly be improved but nothing actually "game breaking".

[Polyxo]

I don't know on what kind of garbage pirated copy people play on to complain so much about bugs (except old gen consoles). On pc I did two runs and I had one actual bug where I would be teleported 500 meters away when trying to go threw a specific window. It was corrected at the time of my second run.
And that's all. It has some little glitches like all complexe games. And can clearly be improved but nothing actually "game breaking".

There's a LOT of glitches, and some of them are pretty spectacular. Apparently a lot of people are having Saul Bright just follow them around and silently hang out, wherever they are. Also, it depends on what you count as game breaking. I just jumped up to the roof of a gas station to get at a connection point or whatever, and after I was done, found I could no longer jump. So I was just stuck on the roof forever and had to reload.

[Jastall]

This game will never improve to a level justifying the launch. Fix every bug, restore some of the unfinished content, and you'll still have an above average shooter. This game is just nothing special and never will be.

I can't agree. It's not a masterpiece and never will be, but warts and all I think it's a good game, and with some more polishing, content, and optimization it could be a great one. The story is good, the non-filler sidequests are usually well done, the gameplay and progression are satisfying enough for the genre, and obviously the graphics and art design are out of this world. There's a lot to like here, unfortunately there's just as much to dislike. Basically how much you're satisfied with the game comes down to how much you're willing to look past its clear and obvious flaws.

[Easo]

I don't know on what kind of garbage pirated copy people play on to complain so much about bugs (except old gen consoles). On pc I did two runs and I had one actual bug where I would be teleported 500 meters away when trying to go threw a specific window. It was corrected at the time of my second run.
And that's all. It has some little glitches like all complexe games. And can clearly be improved but nothing actually "game breaking".

I almost had nothing really serious, but others have been far from that lucky, even outside of people who specifically searched for bugs to break the game and get their ego points on video likes. The game is bugged to shit, but most of the issues definitely are on consoles and low spec PC's without updated drivers.
I mean, with the "big" 1.1 patch they introduced the game breaking Takemura bug, which had to be fixed separately afterwards.

[kaminaris]

Half-Life 1 and 2? WarCraft 3? PoP: Sands of Time? Bioshock? Fallout? Fookin Dark Souls? Or... something from which Cyberpunk took a lot of inspiration - Deus Ex??? The list goes on...

Nothing to improve? Are you serious? Not even the dumb NPC's on the streets/cars, insta spawning cops, not even those?

Nothing of the games you listed is even remotely close. They were great/good games when they came out but comparing it to CP2077 without rose tinted glasses is just insane.

- - - Updated - - -

Lets see iconic franchises like mario, zelda, ff, mgs, castlevania, metroid, civ, street fighter, re etc etc still talked about and praised decades post release but this generic buggy AAA game that will be forgotten in a year is a top 3 game of all time? If we're being honest it wouldn't even make a top 1000 consensus list if you polled a large number of gamers.

You have listed all the mediocre games, not even remotely close. Again, nostalgia is strong but I couldn't care less.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

You have listed all the mediocre games, not even remotely close. Again, nostalgia is strong but I couldn't care less.

They are not mediocre games. They are all pretty good and even critics liked them, nostaligia is nostalgia but doesn't mean on their own merits and for their time they weren't bad. You are acting very elitist about Cyberpunk, there's plenty of people here that like it but jesus its not revolutionary.

[FlawlessSoul]

I can't agree. It's not a masterpiece and never will be, but warts and all I think it's a good game, and with some more polishing, content, and optimization it could be a great one. The story is good, the non-filler sidequests are usually well done, the gameplay and progression are satisfying enough for the genre, and obviously the graphics and art design are out of this world. There's a lot to like here, unfortunately there's just as much to dislike. Basically how much you're satisfied with the game comes down to how much you're willing to look past its clear and obvious flaws.

A moment of clarity in a deluge of weak trolling in this thread. I love sci-fi (especially games) so CP2077 ticks all the boxes for me, and it was a big disappointment. Bugs aside (and I got off lightly with no game-shattering bugs so far, but there have been a lot of minor ones) the game doesn't feel done outside the major storylines. NPCs wander aimlessly and appear/disappear, cars clip into the road or walls when they're not vanishing, and even gameplay elements like police response is a joke. They pop out of nowhere, which means any elevated threat results in instant teleporting robots and cyberninjas. No chase, no cop cars coming after you or MAX-TAC beating you into the ground. You die, you kill them until they stop spawning, or you run away until they stop running after you.

I'm still enjoying the game - I've played *far* worse alphas/betas as a QA tester, and even one or two "releases" - I'm just hoping CDPR will do more than bugfixes and continue to polish the game.

[Edge-]

Folks, let's keep discussion on the game and not spend time focusing on critiquing the subjective opinions of others. Thanks y'all.

[kaminaris]

They are not mediocre games. They are all pretty good and even critics liked them, nostaligia is nostalgia but doesn't mean on their own merits and for their time they weren't bad. You are acting very elitist about Cyberpunk, there's plenty of people here that like it but jesus its not revolutionary.

Listen, assuming I would get my memory regarding clearing those games cleaned, the question is, would I trade CP2077 for any of those games listed?
FUCK NO.

This is similar to exchanging your current car (assuming it's fairly good, pretty new) for anything from the list of "best cars of all times". Then the short answer is just: nope, longer answer is: noooooooooooooooooooope. Not taking into account you could sell it as antique and get more money to buy some better car of course.


It's absolutely irrelevant that during their time they were great/good. In direct comparison they are just mediocre.

CP2077 will remain in my memory for all it was, the same i remember ME1/2. And I don't really care what developers promised either because i don't read marketing stuff or dont follow their twitter.

[Ringthane]

tell us all why it is the devs responsability, go ahead, we awaiting your good argument about it

Because... They designed the game, and coded the game, and put the game out for sale in a broken state. How would this not be the fault of the developers? By your logic, if you go to a restaurant and the chef takes a dump on your food, all you could do is shrug your shoulders.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't know on what kind of garbage pirated copy people play on to complain so much about bugs (except old gen consoles). On pc I did two runs and I had one actual bug where I would be teleported 500 meters away when trying to go threw a specific window. It was corrected at the time of my second run.
And that's all. It has some little glitches like all complexe games. And can clearly be improved but nothing actually "game breaking".

"I've never seen a building catch on fire, so no building has ever caught on fire, ever."

This is your logic.

[Jastall]

A moment of clarity in a deluge of weak trolling in this thread. I love sci-fi (especially games) so CP2077 ticks all the boxes for me, and it was a big disappointment. Bugs aside (and I got off lightly with no game-shattering bugs so far, but there have been a lot of minor ones) the game doesn't feel done outside the major storylines. NPCs wander aimlessly and appear/disappear, cars clip into the road or walls when they're not vanishing, and even gameplay elements like police response is a joke. They pop out of nowhere, which means any elevated threat results in instant teleporting robots and cyberninjas. No chase, no cop cars coming after you or MAX-TAC beating you into the ground. You die, you kill them until they stop spawning, or you run away until they stop running after you.

I'm still enjoying the game - I've played *far* worse alphas/betas as a QA tester, and even one or two "releases" - I'm just hoping CDPR will do more than bugfixes and continue to polish the game.

As for bugs, personally I've had worse, way worse, than Cyberpunk. I did get 2 broken quests, one of these I never got to work, which was annoying, and visual glitches, but nothing too major or gamebreaking.

My bigger beef was just the general jankiness. T-posing NPCs. The braindead AI. Animation goofs aplenty (seriously, the stealth takedowns look terrible). Simple shit like not being able to rebind the interaction key. Most level 20 perks not working. Plenty of half-baked systems. The paperdoll in your inventory being suspiciously low-res. I could go on and on, but yeah, if you stick to the main story and key sidequests you'll have a great time, but try to do anything else and the game showcases its unfinished side more than most open world titles.

Night City is amazing if you just want to look at it, and terrible if you want to interact with it. Fortunately I'm the kind of player that is quite content to follow the dotted line, and think this game would have been better served by being a lot more linear in the first place. But if you like going off the rails and look at the nuts and bolts of a game world, boy oh boy does this thing fall apart under the slightest scrutiny. It's clearly obvious that the devs had extreme ambitions for this game, totally unrealistic ones probably, and tons and tons of shit was cut to make the deadline. Even moving it 6 months or a full year back wouldn't have completely removed that feeling, I think; the game would have been less buggy, the animations would have been better, the console versions would have been less of a shitshow, but nothing will remove the feeling that this isn't the game CDPR set out to make from the onset, just the one they could actually make. That happens with any game to some degree or another, but is particularly pronounced here.

[Easo]

Nothing of the games you listed is even remotely close. They were great/good games when they came out but comparing it to CP2077 without rose tinted glasses is just insane.

You have listed all the mediocre games, not even remotely close. Again, nostalgia is strong but I couldn't care less.

Yeah, I have nothing to say to this, this is too crazy to continue. Wake me up when there are car ambushes (or, actually, any kind of ambushes) in the game. CDPR Studio head publicly said so after all.
And I am saying this as someone who does not regret preordering Collector's Edition...

[xmirrors]

I can't agree. It's not a masterpiece and never will be, but warts and all I think it's a good game, and with some more polishing, content, and optimization it could be a great one. The story is good, the non-filler sidequests are usually well done, the gameplay and progression are satisfying enough for the genre, and obviously the graphics and art design are out of this world. There's a lot to like here, unfortunately there's just as much to dislike. Basically how much you're satisfied with the game comes down to how much you're willing to look past its clear and obvious flaws.

That's kind of what I said though, just in more words. An above average (aka good or even great) game, but nothing special. I never said it was bad or anything.

[Polyxo]

A moment of clarity in a deluge of weak trolling in this thread. I love sci-fi (especially games) so CP2077 ticks all the boxes for me, and it was a big disappointment. Bugs aside (and I got off lightly with no game-shattering bugs so far, but there have been a lot of minor ones) the game doesn't feel done outside the major storylines. NPCs wander aimlessly and appear/disappear, cars clip into the road or walls when they're not vanishing, and even gameplay elements like police response is a joke. They pop out of nowhere, which means any elevated threat results in instant teleporting robots and cyberninjas. No chase, no cop cars coming after you or MAX-TAC beating you into the ground. You die, you kill them until they stop spawning, or you run away until they stop running after you.

I'm still enjoying the game - I've played *far* worse alphas/betas as a QA tester, and even one or two "releases" - I'm just hoping CDPR will do more than bugfixes and continue to polish the game.

I've determined that this is an issue with the cars not actually 'driving' besides yours. They're kind of just being 'moved' by some other dev tool. Those movement paths, I think were drawn by devs scrambling to make them work. This is why they can't deviate from obstructions. It's also why they kind just careen through barriers and stuff, and their suspension doesn't react to raised crosswalks or railroad tracks or anything.

I think there are some 'features' that should be added:
Traffic functionality should be one of them. It doesn't need to be GTA, but I do need like, maybe Sleeping Dogs in terms of complexity.
I think pedestrians/npcs need to be expanded on a little bit. I don't need schedules and actual people to follow around, but I do need some longer paths, and I need a few more examples of 'playacting'. More conversations between people would be interesting too.
The police mechanic needs to be revised a bit. If they don't want to do some complex wanted/pursuit/evasion system at this point, that's fine, I'll accept that. However, they should get rid of the whole teleportation thing. Implementing essentially the Witcher 3 system would work, where it's dependent on cops seeing you do something, could help
Lastly, at least off the top of my head, the engine needs some 'artistic optimizations' here and there. One thing they could fiddle with is what they prioritize in terms of higher/lower resolution draw distances. I, along with other people, have noticed that the lights often turn green when you approach. However, looking more closely at it, I think those lights were green all along. I think the engine is just keeping a low-res 'placeholder' that just mindlessly cycles through lights there for too long, until you're just about in front of the light, and then putting the actual simulated light at the last second. There's a few other things going on like that with signage and indoor lighting that are a bit weird like that.

[Cracked]

A moment of clarity in a deluge of weak trolling in this thread. I love sci-fi (especially games) so CP2077 ticks all the boxes for me, and it was a big disappointment. Bugs aside (and I got off lightly with no game-shattering bugs so far, but there have been a lot of minor ones) the game doesn't feel done outside the major storylines. NPCs wander aimlessly and appear/disappear, cars clip into the road or walls when they're not vanishing, and even gameplay elements like police response is a joke. They pop out of nowhere, which means any elevated threat results in instant teleporting robots and cyberninjas. No chase, no cop cars coming after you or MAX-TAC beating you into the ground. You die, you kill them until they stop spawning, or you run away until they stop running after you.

I'm still enjoying the game - I've played *far* worse alphas/betas as a QA tester, and even one or two "releases" - I'm just hoping CDPR will do more than bugfixes and continue to polish the game.

The implication was more that this game will never reach a status of a "classic", I'd be rather surprised if anyone still remembered this with any kind of passion 2-3 years from now. You know, like what Witcher kind of achieved. The reputation of CDPR is now tainted for a long time to come.

[kukkamies]

Cyberpunk feels a lot better than Skyrim and Skyrim is still widely played and praised. It's mostly media critics being what they are, they make money from attention and nothing gets attention like negativity.

The only problem for me was lack of difficulty. I played on Hard and first 10-20h were really fun with stealth and being careful. Then I got good guns and it got really boring.
They should have focused more on making this a stealth game than a shooter.

[Wangming]

Listen, assuming I would get my memory regarding clearing those games cleaned, the question is, would I trade CP2077 for any of those games listed?
FUCK NO.

This is similar to exchanging your current car (assuming it's fairly good, pretty new) for anything from the list of "best cars of all times". Then the short answer is just: nope, longer answer is: noooooooooooooooooooope. Not taking into account you could sell it as antique and get more money to buy some better car of course.


It's absolutely irrelevant that during their time they were great/good. In direct comparison they are just mediocre.

CP2077 will remain in my memory for all it was, the same i remember ME1/2. And I don't really care what developers promised either because i don't read marketing stuff or dont follow their twitter.

I understand what you are saying. Comparing a longbow to an assault rifle will without a doubt present the assault rifle as the victor. But an amazing longbow that was the alpha and the omega of ranged weapons for centuries is much more impressive than a shitty assault rifle that gets outclassed a year later. Many broken AF games became cult classics later on (Kotor 2 and and VtmB come to mind immediately). Wether CP2077 has enough going for it to reach that status, remains to be seen. But so far we have "looks pretty" and "has nice pop culture references".

- - - Updated - - -

Cyberpunk feels a lot better than Skyrim and Skyrim is still widely played and praised. It's mostly media critics being what they are, they make money from attention and nothing gets attention like negativity.

Well Skyrim was made by Bethesda. They are famous for ther games being filled with funny bugs. Expecting a polished Elder Scrolls game is like expecting engaging gameplay from a Call of Duty.

What we were promised for CP2077 was "witcher 3 with every aspect improved." That kinda didn't happen.

[Fkiolaris]

Well Skyrim was made by Bethesda. They are famous for ther games being filled with funny bugs. Expecting a polished Elder Scrolls game is like expecting engaging gameplay from a Call of Duty.

What we were promised for CP2077 was "witcher 3 with every aspect improved." That kinda didn't happen.

Yes, but you are comparing a Witcher 3 after 2 years of post-release development and 2 meaty expansions vs a game that just released. If you do the comparison like-for-like (ie both games on release), you'll see a different picture. Having said that, does that mean that CDPR should not be learning and improving on their releases (at the very least)? No it doesn't, absolutely not and they dropped the ball in many ways for this one. But that doesn't make this game in its own right a bad game or an utter failure, as much as some regular "contributors" to this thread want to project.

[kukkamies]

Well Skyrim was made by Bethesda. They are famous for ther games being filled with funny bugs. Expecting a polished Elder Scrolls game is like expecting engaging gameplay from a Call of Duty.

What we were promised for CP2077 was "witcher 3 with every aspect improved." That kinda didn't happen.

Never cared about marketing or promises. It's there to make you feel hype and spend something. Not there to give accurate image.