Flying tricked AGAIN

[Baroclinic]

You're not getting flying at the start, because that trivialises questing and world pvp.

Stuff that is already trivial. Time consuming, but trivial. All it does is speeds it up. Coming from a Cataclysm veteran.

[RobertMugabe]

You know, I'm trying to remember which expansions had flying unlocked right at the start. I can only thing of BC (locked behind hitting level 70 and costed a fortune back then relatively speaking), WotLK which required you hitting 2 levels under cap to buy cold weather flying if you had already purchased regular flying from BC, and Cata which only had it because flying was unlocked in BC. Every other expansion had it locked behind some sort of pathfinding. I can't remember how MOP unlocked flying though but I know it wasn't from the start.

Nah flying wasn't a fortune in BC. It was quite affordable at lvl70, considering just how much gold you'd get just by leveling.

Also your whole argument is pretty flawed tbh. You're trying really hard to spin that flying being unlocked from the start wasn't common, but it actually was the case for every expac until WoD where they added pathfinder.

TBC (level 70), Wrath (level 60; cold weather flying unlocked at 77 for mains and 68 for alts), Cata (level 60) and MoP (level 90) had it all right from the start and in the case of each one it was all very affordable, like in each case you were expected to have the gold needed to purchase them once you hit the needed level. Each of these expansions also had certain areas that even required flying (Wrath and Cata even entire zones)

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nevermind that, the whole point a lot of people are making to just buy flying at cap isnt about story in zone needing the flying, its about convenience while doing wq or treasure hunting or rares on cap, and that is in no way more "fun" with flying mount, just faster and more convenient, other than that no change, content is the same just moving between is different and that is not "fun" no matter if you run or fly...

Convenience can sometimes equate to fun though, especially since this game is such a massive walking simulator already.

[Piertje1984]

Once again flying will only be unlocked for already outdated content while being unavailable in the Maw and Korthia. This is Argus all over again. Next expansion MUST have flying in from the START and it must be usable EVERYWHERE.

Dude for real, quit playing this game if you think its soo shitty.. cmon.. if you played the game the last months you would be ready for patch 9.1

Now they finally listened and didnt put flying behind rep and again its not good enough. No you do not need flying from start, its just not true and now flying in the MAW is okay, you can finally walk there.

[Ragedaug]

how does flying make the world content more fun? you would still do the same wq just instead of runing (or flying via FP) to them you would fly on mount to them, i get its convenient and more effective, but how is it more "fun" is beyond my understanding

Because I'm not playing the game when I'm riding my mount or AFK'ing on a flight path. I'm waiting to play the game. I can't kill quest mobs while riding my ground mount, especially when I haven't even reached the place where the things are that I need to do.

On my flying mount I can get to where I'm going to play the game much quicker, which makes my overall game experience more fun. I hope that helps.

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Dude for real, quit playing this game if you think its soo shitty.. cmon..

I took his quote as him saying that he is already planning on quitting if they didn't include it. That's what the "MUST" meant. The only power he has over Blizzard is whether or not he subs. Any ultimatum given to a vendor you have no legal power over includes the implicit threat of withholding further funding.

[TheFirstOnes]

Most of us were done with "exploring the zones" months ago at this point flying should be at max level end of story.

But you're not. Exploring the zones alone doesn't really mean you're truly used to the zones, let alone have you experienced the story of the covenants fully. Zones are more than just travel points.

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I don't see a point to waiting for 9.1. Once I've finished my covenant campaign in 9.0, I've seen and done everything, somewhere between several and many times, the way "they" wanted me to experience it.

Flying should be unlocked now once the Covenant campaign is done. At that point I'm just grinding/farming and making it pointlessly more difficult/tedious/boring/frustrating/etc. doesn't make any sense to me.

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I'd agree with this. I will never do a daily in the maw. I do my covenant quests there, and that's it. I'm not sure who at Blizzard thought the Maw, designed as it is, would be compelling repeatable content. No amount of stygia or rewards from it would make me want to touch the place.

I mean, the Covenant campaign is not done in 9.0 tho. It's done in 9.1, when it climaxes to the Forces of Death Vs The Jailer within the Maw, especially the Sanctum of Domination. So, in a way...

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Its more fun when they actually took the time to specifically design zones for flying, Blades Edge, Storm Peaks etc...

Navigating shit in Blades Edge while flying is Hell. What are you on about? lmao

[Dhrizzle]

Was thinking exactly the same while reading this thread. Of course, fun is subjective, but having flying or not doesn't change the nature of world quests or any open world content. It only changes the means of getting there and makes travelling between quest locations faster, or let put 0 effort into getting to some of chests. But you would still be doing the exact same content that you do without flying. I can hardly see any benefit of flying within a quest zone, since mobs and objectives are close to each other and barely require even a ground mount within the area.

The only place where I would really appreciate flying is Revendreth - multiple layers to the zone and elevators makes it annoying to navigate through when I need to (which tbh is very rare, since I'd rather skip a 35-70 anima WQ than go there, and flying will likely not change that).

The biggest incovenience is travelling between the zones, which is only partially solved by having an Oribos portal in my covenant sanctum. And that will remain.

With Revendreth I'd be happy just to have the lifts marked on the map.

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right the one group of players they decide to cater too. And yea lfr being delayed is not only a huge fucking slap in the face but also fucking pointless. Its basically useless at this point to be honest and can be bypassed completely. Like LFR is another good example of them doing everything they can to privilege one group of players over another. Thats the problem when you hire players to make the game.

Yes, adding multiple difficulties including one that is basically impossible to fail at, cuts the dugeon/raid into bite-size pieces and lets you auto-queue while doing something else is only catering to one group of players... do you stop to think about what you are typing?

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Agreed, best if all the people who like flying stop playing WoW. That will make WoW a better game if we can just get a small elite clique of players to stay. I'm sure with all the rabble gone Blizz will continue to have the same size staff and will create content just as often as when there are many subscribers.

It's not just a "small elite clique" who don't feel tricked about Blizz doing what lots of people expected them to do.

[Wuusah]

With Revendreth I'd be happy just to have the lifts marked on the map.

They are marked on the map...

[Dhrizzle]

This was exactly what I was going to say to anon5123. "You can fly directly to your quest area and do the objectives, then leave when you are done". He just described an optimal game design that makes me happy. The only thing is trivialized was the amount of time wasted until I could start playing the game.

I'm not playing a riding simulator. Riding my mount is not why I play WoW. Questing, among other things is why I play WoW. The quicker I can get to where I need to be so I can play, the more vested I am in the game. The more time I spend on my mount, getting blocked by small hills or dazed by irrelevant trash all over the place or AFK'ing while on flight paths, the more time I have to question why I'm 'playing' WoW in the first place.

You are playing an open world RPG/adventure game. If you resent the fact it involves travelling through an open world and struggle to navigate small hills or around enemies maybe you should question why you're playing WoW.

[SoLoR1]

Whoever thinks doing WQs and/or running around maw after couple of weeks of expansion without flying is f masochistic. Specially SL type of WQs and without whistle. F immersion... I CBA running to the same WQ across half of the map and killing same 15 mobs or filling up bar slowly for 100th time...

[Dhrizzle]

They are marked on the map...

Where? I just got quest stuff, flight-paths and instance entrances on mine.

[Wuusah]

Where? I just got quest stuff, flight-paths and instance entrances on mine.

You never wondered what those repetitive symbols are on the map that no other map ever had?

[sam86]

If you thought this was going to play out any differently then you only managed to trick yourself

more of disappointed, in BFA they gave us flying in current content
why not repeat the same? reward is ground mount in maw? I wiped 2 times at floor 17 and did twisting corridor finally on 3rd try and took it REALLY slow, not counting wipes in other floors
I strongly support and agree that flying given without requirement in older exp, but in current exp? why exactly did i do corridor? i wasted ~25 hours to get an ugly mount? I already don't use any non-class mount since legion

[Dhrizzle]

You never wondered what those repetitive symbols are on the map that no other map ever had?

The densest thing is I was looking on my map thinking "I know there's a lift near that little house but I can't see any symbol for it."

[sam86]

Whoever thinks doing WQs and/or running around maw after couple of weeks of expansion without flying is f masochistic. Specially SL type of WQs and without whistle. F immersion... I CBA running to the same WQ across half of the map and killing same 15 mobs or filling up bar slowly for 100th time...

i got the mount in the maw, and the maw is surprisingly very small zone
in fact all SL zones are small, they don't rival any exp at all, even BFA/WoD (which i consider worse exp) have far bigger zones
SL is falling more to ok exp, it isn't bad, but i'm starting to wonder if BFA set the bar way too low that even if i see a 'bad' exp i will say it is good

[Rageadon]

my biggest problem with not having flying in these never xpack is that most zones are done in such a way that its just dreadful to run around, other xpack that had flying like TBC, WotLK, Cata and Mop, they're not bad to run around in ground mount,

we have a zone that is mostly designed for flying but we cant fly, and that sucks

[Bildur]

Nope, it was from the start. Just had be max level and pay 2,500 gold.
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=115913...the-four-winds

Yep. All the way up to and including MoP (Except Cata where we could fly from the first day) you just had to reach Max level and that was it.
Gating flying behind rep grinds, when Blizzard feels like it and what not, started as a band-aid solution In WoD; the most disliked xpac in the history of WoW

[SirCowdog]

Flight being provided later in the expansion is not at all what you claim it is, though? It's not them just changing shit randomly mid-way into the expansion. Flight later on in an expansion's development is literally the set plan for every incoming WoW expansion now.

Yeah....way to completely miss the point. Or maybe it's intentional. No one was talking about flight in the context you used. I was pointing out how wow has become "World of Systemscraft" based on Blizzard's garbage "vision" of what they think the game should be based on their own internal echo chamber. And how instead of listening to all of the feedback given in various formats(forums, beta, streamers, youtubers, etc), they stubbornly insist that their way is the right way until it's so far into the expansion that course correction is only done after the game's content is on farm or outdated.

Flying/Pathfinder/only-usable-in-obsolete-content is one of those systems that blizzard nonsensically refuses to budge on, but that particular case was not included in the point I was making, even if it is relevant to the discussion. I was speaking of things like Azurite armor, or Covenant swapping.

I also want to point out that "This is how flight has always been for the past X expansions" isn't a valid defense. It's been garbage since the beginning, when Blizzard failed to deliver to amazing open world that they promised would be allowed by taking away flight in WoD. And they've NEVER managed to deliver that. Not with Argus. Not with Legion. Not with Shadowlands.

MAYBE if they'd move away from 90% of the content being filler "Kill X or Click X" quests this would be different. Blizzard BADLY needs to take a page from other MMOs in regards to exploration and keeping the open world relevant past the initial leveling process.

[DarkAmbient]

I also want to point out that "This is how flight has always been for the past X expansions" isn't a valid defense. It's been garbage since the beginning, when Blizzard failed to deliver to amazing open world that they promised would be allowed by taking away flight in WoD. And they've NEVER managed to deliver that. Not with Argus. Not with Legion. Not with Shadowlands.

Yep. Pathfinder is essentially a punishment on the players for Blizzard's own failure at game design. They wanted to remove flying but when the community complained they left it in but added a 'fuck you' system to obtain it.

No-one complained about flying being too easy to obtain whilst under the old system. No-one asked for some Pathfinder bullshit to make getting flying 'feel more rewarding'. It's such a bummer that Blizzard is persisting with it.

[cparle87]

I'm fine with us being able to fly VIA finishing the covenant story in 9.1 though, as it at the very least gives players time to take in the zones and their beauty. Besides, in 9.1, there's not going to be a fuck ton to catch up on, alt wise. So, I'm sure Alts are gonna be just fine, especially with Flying being account wide.

We're getting it before that, I thought. In 9.0.5? Totally agree with you on the whistle. Really annoying being stuck way out in Tirna Scithe, the far end of House of Plagues or Rituals, or Citadel of Loyalty, and having to slog your way back to civilization.

[Magneto]

How do the corridors 144 layer guys feel about all Mounts working in the Maw in Patch 9.1?