This expansion showcased how people do not enjoy m+ at all

[T-34]

Unfortunately that is a symptom of the gaming culture that became generalized. People no longer play games for fun and immersion, they only care about efficiency and the carrot on the stick. It's quite sad really

Ehh, people have played games competitively since the dawn of mankind. Chess, Go, Mancala-games just to mention some very well known examples.

Nobody stops you playing for "fun and immersion", but people who play to win and be competitive have fun doing that.
Don't think that your way to play is the only way to have fun in a game, WoW included.

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But that they enjoy the loot it gives.

In BfA you could reach Mythic level of gear by just doing a weekly +15. People were so used to easy gearing like that, that they cry about it this expansion.
People do not enjoy m+ for the content it brings, they solely enjoy to do it because of the loot it gives.

Only a small minority seems to enjoy m+ so much, the rest only cares about the gear.
So many people crying that the gear isn't a high enough ilvl and that it's not often dropped.

I thought that people enjoyed this content regardless? I thought m+ was fun? What happened?

Do you have any data that confirms your theory?

[paragraphgorilla]

Mythic plus has never been fun

[Nyel]

I enjoy Mythic+ when the rewards match the effort. In Shadowlands that's simply not the case, plus the absolutely horrible affixes like fortifying or tyrannical suck a lot of fun out of Mythic+ as well et voila you have the situation we're in right now.

With proper rewards enjoyment for even this kind of M+ would be way higher.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Oh I enjoy it. Once a weeks for 2-3 runs, not doing it every day, for hours to get nothing to show for it. I certainly enjoy it more than raiding, but that's another issue entirely.

[GreatNameForSmurfingExTee]

I enjoy M+

Already pugged my way to Shadowlands Keystone Master on a Mistweaver Monk and Prot Warrior. To be completly honest, we timed 3-4 Keys with a group of friends.

Sure, you'll not get invited to a 18+ key with this specs but whatever.

[Fayolynn]

OP your point is a bad one because it can be applied to every form of content if it difficulty vs reward balance isn't right.

I enjoy Mythic + but the reward just isn't there this expansion. Maybe Mythic+ rewards in BfA were to good but Blizzard swung the pendulum way to far the other direction in Shadowlands. It stopped being fun running multiple dungeons a day and getting no drops, or when I finally got a drop it ended up being a downgrade. I hit a brick wall and got bored. If they tweak the rewards a bit I may come back but I'm done with Shadowlands for now.

[Cosmic Janitor]

The fun will go out of rated PvP as well when Blizzard stops bribing them with ilvl.

If anything it showed that people only care about PvP when they get easy high iLvl loot, and it took more than just Ilvl, it took being upgradeable and selectable as well for that to happen.

[Azzurri]

Legion M+ was awesome. After they implemented the MDI and balanced around the eSports aspect of it, that's when it went all down hill for me.

[erifwodahs]

But that they enjoy the loot it gives.

In BfA you could reach Mythic level of gear by just doing a weekly +15. People were so used to easy gearing like that, that they cry about it this expansion.
People do not enjoy m+ for the content it brings, they solely enjoy to do it because of the loot it gives.

Only a small minority seems to enjoy m+ so much, the rest only cares about the gear.
So many people crying that the gear isn't a high enough ilvl and that it's not often dropped.

I thought that people enjoyed this content regardless? I thought m+ was fun? What happened?

No, it showed that it is much more enjoyable if you at least chance to get a reward which is useful.

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Mythic plus has never been fun

For you, maybe.

[Nargrom]

But that they enjoy the loot it gives.

In BfA you could reach Mythic level of gear by just doing a weekly +15. People were so used to easy gearing like that, that they cry about it this expansion.
People do not enjoy m+ for the content it brings, they solely enjoy to do it because of the loot it gives.

Only a small minority seems to enjoy m+ so much, the rest only cares about the gear.
So many people crying that the gear isn't a high enough ilvl and that it's not often dropped.

I thought that people enjoyed this content regardless? I thought m+ was fun? What happened?

People that truly enjoy m+ are the key pushers, the rest that do it for gear are imposters and do not represent the m+ community that does m+ for what they are made for. A race against time.

No one that enjoys pushing gives a fuck about whether or not a piece or not drops at the end, we do it to push our limits.

[justandulas]

I haven’t enjoyed m+ since legion. It belongs in something like Diablo 3, imo.

That said, others love it and I’m happy for them. Some of my favorite people in wow love m+

But as a mythic main tank, I really dislike them and will not run them. Gear or not, which creates issues for my long time guild as people want to run m+ but I don’t have fun doing them so don’t do them

Blizz needs to find a way to cut out mandatory chores and focus on fun. If I only wanna raid log and nothing else in game, I shouldn’t have to do m+, covenant reknown, choreghast, etc to stay relevant. keep each section of the game independent with their own rewards

Being semi forced into tasks you Find fun is one reason why bfa fell off population wise; and SL doubled down on it

[unbound]

But that they enjoy the loot it gives.

In BfA you could reach Mythic level of gear by just doing a weekly +15. People were so used to easy gearing like that, that they cry about it this expansion.
People do not enjoy m+ for the content it brings, they solely enjoy to do it because of the loot it gives.

Only a small minority seems to enjoy m+ so much, the rest only cares about the gear.
So many people crying that the gear isn't a high enough ilvl and that it's not often dropped.

I thought that people enjoyed this content regardless? I thought m+ was fun? What happened?

M+ was only ever for the majority for a short period of time. After a while, that majority realizes (sometimes only subconsciously) that they are doing the same handful of dungeons over and over and over again. The affixes don't really add that much, and the timer takes away enjoyment (it really only adds stress).

The minority revel in this approach without realizing that the majority are only there because it is the only real way to gear up for things like raids which don't provide much gear overall.

[Kolvarg]

I like M+.

Not too bothered with the low amount of loot, just with the amount of randomness in the gearing process.

And I strongly dislike the timer element and all the side consequences of it (having to plan specific paths to play around with mobs %, especially with prideful as well, inability to take breaks, too punishing for simple mistakes where on some dungeons even a DC or some lag can ruin an entire run). Wish they were less about "homework" of having to know and prepare routes that can change each week, and more about doing them (handling mechanics, more interesting bosses, using CC if needed, on top of the already existing need for interrupts and stuns, etc).

But doing them regularly with the same group is quite fun and rewarding.

[justandulas]

People would enjoy M+ if it was the Legion-era AoEfest instead of BfA metaslavery or SL brickwall simulator

Exactly. Legion m+ was far better designed and more fun

M+ hasn’t been fun for 2 expacs for me, and is a legit chore for me

As a mythic main tank, it also causes problems for my guild because I don’t want to run them and everyone wants 4-10 a week. Hard pass

[ellieg]

well... what is fun about repeating the dungeons? i saw the dungeons and learned them in first week... then m+ is just the same dungeons i already did... with increased scaling...

I think the affixes is what keeps them interesting. In higher keys, depending on the affix combination, the run will look completely different. Bosses start to 1 shot on tyrannical of u step in the bad, on fortified certain pulls become really dangerous. Bolstering completely changes the pulls as well

[Lochton]

I get a different impression, so many people forming and running Mythic+ even when they have reached the max they can get.

[Neuroticaine]

I've never enjoyed M+ and always hated it being a source of high-end gear for raiding.

[huth]

I love M+ ... if only there was a way to more than the 1 or 2 a week, I'd be in.

I dunno, i do 5+ each week just fine. Problem must be on your side.

[Rootsbum]

What I want is mythics dungeons without a timer.
I dont care if the rewards are mutch lower, as long as I can challenge myself. It would feel like a mini-raid where we try out diffrent strategies and fight our way to the end.

The timer-thing is OK, I guess, but it has created such a toxic envirement with people screwing over keys for no reason at all

Heck, way too many times we had a clean run and people decide to leave on the last boss after ONE wipe. Even if we have time for like 1-2 wipes more to finnish in time

[Krakan]

I mean beyond pushing keys to the highest level possible in the 20 plus range dungeons were always about gearing up. That doesn't make the process unenjoyable but rather it had a fixed shelf life like all content does.

The issue blizzard has is they want content to be limitless replayable and mythic plus isn't that content. PvP can be but wow pvp has a very niche appeal given how prone it is to class stacking and static fights when people know what to do.

People claim pve raiding is just memorization haven't seen high rated pvp were you can write out on paper every spell and cd people will use ahead of time.