how to fix the catch 22's of this game?

[Belloc]

im taking about needed curve for normal and hc and also 1 that really annoys me min 1300 rio to do 15s when currently its impossible to get that even if you manage to time all 15s.

how do you fix this? i lack 2 timed 15s to get ksm and the game stopped giving me keys that i need to get this achievement, how should these catch 22s be fixed// dint bother saying make your own grp till you get something useful as when you only have 2 dungeons left its near impossible to get a key you need.

an the other one needed arena rating to do rbgs and arena.....

how you you fix these catch 22s on a GAME wide basis

These are social problems that aren't going away. The solutions are simple: Make your own group, join guilds, or make friends with other Mythic+ players. That's it, problem solved.

Your willingness (or lack thereof) to do these things is not the game's problem.

[ellieg]

Buy some WoW token, sell them for gold, buy the remaining 2 dungeons from a boosting service.

Ppl that do this are pathetic lol. I never understood the point. Imo, getting KSM is the goal you strive for and you feel good getting it after you've earned it. If you just buy it, what do you do after that?

[thunderdragon2]

Ppl that do this are pathetic lol. I never understood the point. Imo, getting KSM is the goal you strive for and you feel good getting it after you've earned it. If you just buy it, what do you do after that?

that's how i feel even know i could buy it at anytime my gm used to be a part of a boosting community

[mojusk]

farm/buy millions of gold for boosts

That seems to be the primary way these days with how many bad players I get in pugs

heh ive had a couple of boost buyers who have decent gear and performance. theyre not paying to get carried, they pay just to bypass the groupmaking and the horror of ending up with bad/toxic players. its a sad reality. some say "make your own group" i say "make friends".

[Jujudrood]

I mean, because people set standards, you blame the game?
I guess it's the game's fault that people have this level of freedom to form their own groups, I guess.
Maybe all keys should just be like LFD, where you just queue up and get paired with randos from wherever?
Would that yield better results?

The answer is a very simple one that people don't want to acknowledge: Make your own groups, find your own community of M+ runners, increase your odds of getting the things you want.

Relying on *your* key having the "correct" dungeon, when you are 2 short, is a 25% chance (2/8), but adding more people to that pool can increase those odds of the right key being present, then running with people with whom you are familiar will remove the RIO/pug nonsense.

It's not hard, people.
You can't be spoonfed everything.

[Batoa]

I did the KSM 2 Times on 2 Tanks. Pally and DH. As Pally i did it fully with PUG. The DH was the second one, so my Pally had to Grind RIO. I did no premades except 2 Times when a friend joined my 14 HoA and DOS key. I had no Problems at all. When it was my 15 key i put a Note. "Lf people to Do KSM." I picked the people that had not done this key on 15. Cause this people care of the key. I picked up a lot of good players on my way and added them. Now i have a lot of people to push. I m at 18s now.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Buying boosts is easier and quicker than making your own group

and this is the person that made a thread complaining that the adventure is gone from the game.. wonder why they doesn't feel the adventure anymore? Nothing adventurous about paying others for things you can't earn yourself. But! I will welcome your 2 million gold for KSM.

[Eliminated]

i am in 1, issue it trying to get ppl together outside of the weekend to do 1 is pretty hard, and one of the guilds mt's is only interested in score, i had to pug a tank for my sd 15 because he didn't get sore for it after we failed the 16 with him tanking it

you might need to look for a new guild at this point then. i just recently left mine because we had different goals. i've been in that guild for years and know most of them IRL.

[Wilfire]

and this is the person that made a thread complaining that the adventure is gone from the game.. wonder why they doesn't feel the adventure anymore? Nothing adventurous about paying others for things you can't earn yourself. But! I will welcome your 2 million gold for KSM.

Finding ways to make gold is more adventurous than being decline-a-mole in LFG

[ellieg]

Finding ways to make gold is more adventurous than being decline-a-mole in LFG

What about finding ways to create your own group?

[AkundaMrdal]

I pugged KSM as an ele shaman, you just have to be patient. Sometimes it took me 20 minutes before I found group. Also you can downgrade your key to +14, run it for weekly and hope you get key for your desired dungeon.

[Wilfire]

What about finding ways to create your own group?

Why bother? Making gold is faster and easier than making groups

[clevin]

find people in the same boat as you

isn't this what the Communities feature is supposed to be for? TO find people who have a common interest but who aren't necessarily on the same server?

[Accendor]

Ppl that do this are pathetic lol. I never understood the point. Imo, getting KSM is the goal you strive for and you feel good getting it after you've earned it. If you just buy it, what do you do after that?

I mean its the easiest solution to a problem that the community has created. The community dictates that this is one of the two ways to play this game. The other one being to organize your own group with fixed members, but that is much, much more effort.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Finding ways to make gold is more adventurous than being decline-a-mole in LFG

I hate to be the guy that says it be "get good son" bares a lot of meaning here. Then if getting good isn't possible than "get some friends son" pulls in second. Because both of these get you out of the decline-a-mole LFG and can accomplish any goals like getting 15s. If either aren't possible, which I am starting to think is the category you lean into, than "slide that visa card son" pulls in the rear. Oh, and hey, I am not hating. Folks like you buy coins so folks like me don't have to. Even if you aren't actually buying the coins that is.. because.. if people are buying your stuff a lot of them are.. and thus.. I still benefit!

[clevin]

Why would people invite you for raids if you don't have curve, when there's hundreds of players with curve willing to join at the same time as you?
Why would people invite you to m+ when you don't have 1300 io when there's 20+ guys with 1300 io or higher signing up at the same time as you?

You DO realize that this is the catch 22 OP is referring to, yes?

"You need curve for an invite" But if you can't get an invite... how do you get curve?
"You need 1300+ RIO or no invite" AGAIN....

However, this isn't a game issue. You're perfectly right that people will use this as a filter because they can. The only two solutions I can see are for OP to make their own group or to join a Community that works for them. Maybe a Discord too?

In fact, I'd argue that Blizzard did address this Catch-22 by adding the Community feature. It's a way to find people who share an interest or goal (KSM in this case). They can't force people to use it though.

[crazyman2]

You can't. Since Blizzard themselves stopped excluding players that were "behind the curve", the community has stepped in to perform the same function.

In Classic/TBC the harder raids just weren't pugged. Wrath was the first time I saw addons performing this function, and it's been the same way ever since.
In wrath it was gearscore, some arbitrary formula based on item level. Most ICC raids wanted a 6k gearscore... a number that you couldn't really get to unless you were close to full ICC gear to begin with.
Then Blizzard added displayed average item level in Cata, and that was the thing for a long time. Highlights including "must have full normal SoO gear to get invited to a *flex* SoO raid", and "your heroic Hellfire Citadel gear isn't good enough to queue for normal with". Now we have raider.io. It's obviously a faulty system, but has it's advantages over something like gearscore when people were inviting straight up based on ilvl. I've been replaced from raids for garbage players running well over double hit cap. Raider.io is at least based on the content you've done rather an arbitrary number people trying to game.

As far as raids go - heroic raids in particular aren't made to be friendly for casual players in pugs. I spent about six weeks progressing in there in a guild. We had almost 100 wipes on Sire over several weeks as we learned the fight and eventually got it. It's a pretty tight dps race unless you've got high ilvls - you can't really afford deaths from people who don't know what they're doing. If we're short on people and filling up, we do not want someone who doesn't know the fight.
The LFG groups are usually one of the three

1. Raid leaders that wouldn't qualify for their own groups and are trying to get carried into those qualifications, they don't want to invite other people that are behind

2. Partial guild groups that are short a couple people and don't want to spend hours for one new person to learn the fight

3. "Extreme" casuals that don't have jobs and play 12+ hours a day that geared up early and want people who invested as much time as they did (which is a joke, but still). These people are usually toxic as hell and can't stay in a guild long, which is why they're in the group finder

If you want an AOTC, either buy it or go find a guild to do progress.

As far as dungeons go - you're not getting rid of the behind the curve mentality, but I'd like to see adjustable keystones that don't downgrade to make it a lot less punishing for the people that do try to build their own keys up.

[Wilfire]

I hate to be the guy that says it be "get good son" bares a lot of meaning here. Then if getting good isn't possible than "get some friends son" pulls in second. Because both of these get you out of the decline-a-mole LFG and can accomplish any goals like getting 15s. If either aren't possible, which I am starting to think is the category you lean into, than "slide that visa card son" pulls in the rear. Oh, and hey, I am not hating. Folks like you buy coins so folks like me don't have to. Even if you aren't actually buying the coins that is.. because.. if people are buying your stuff a lot of them are.. and thus.. I still benefit!

Who said anything about credit cards? Pulling in millions of gold in to afford boosts is as much of a "challenge" as dealing with people and their strange social dynamics. But at least in the case of gold I can log in and start making progress a couple of minutes in instead of sitting in LFG.

Hell even having enough real money lying around that you can throw it around in a game without breaking a sweat is as much of an achievement as AotC and the rest of that crap.

[ellieg]

I mean its the easiest solution to a problem that the community has created. The community dictates that this is one of the two ways to play this game. The other one being to organize your own group with fixed members, but that is much, much more effort.

I do it without fixed members tho. Theres a 3rd option if u try

[kamuimac]

im taking about needed curve for normal and hc and also 1 that really annoys me min 1300 rio to do 15s when currently its impossible to get that even if you manage to time all 15s.

how do you fix this? i lack 2 timed 15s to get ksm and the game stopped giving me keys that i need to get this achievement, how should these catch 22s be fixed// dint bother saying make your own grp till you get something useful as when you only have 2 dungeons left its near impossible to get a key you need.

an the other one needed arena rating to do rbgs and arena.....

how you you fix these catch 22s on a GAME wide basis

its quite simple fix

game needs to be much eaiser

just like it was in vanilla-wolk.

wow was popular when it was easy fun game

wow is garbage when its game designed only for mythic raiders.

50% of sub losses in first 2 months proves this.

it means they lost not only people who come back to game to give it chance but even people who played through whole Legion and BfA.

by june they will loose 80 % of players

why ? because there is literaly nothing to do in game for casual playerbase