Is Saving Public Lands Important?

[Milchshake]

Are Public Lands important to you?

I was so excited last week when the administration announced it was moving to protect Oak Flats again. I'm always a bit surprised how little attention environmental issues have gotten over the past few years. It’s striking to me how few people really care about these critical issues, whereas 30 years ago, this was the environmental issue, perhaps to the detriment of other issues. Maybe is a West thing, were public lands dominate our landscapes.
In any case, one of the starkest demonstrations of the difference between Republican and Democratic governance is who is prioritized on the public lands. And because this is federally controlled, big change can happen overnight.

The Biden administration has put the brakes on a controversial land exchange that would have given a sacred Native American site to a multinational mining company by March 11.

Parts of the handover had been rushed to completion in the waning days of the Trump administration, in an effort to give Resolution Copper control over Arizona’s Oak Flat region before or soon after Trump left office. Oak Flat sits atop one of the largest untapped copper deposits in the world, estimated to be worth more than $1 billion.

Now the government “has concluded that additional time is necessary to understand concerns raised by the Tribes and the public and the project’s impacts to these important resources,” according to a statement by the U.S. Forest Service, which is currently in charge of Oak Flat.

The agency also noted it was following a recent memorandum from Joe Biden encouraging tribal consultation on federal decisions and “strengthening nation to nation relationships.” The Forest Service estimated it would take “several months” to complete the consultations before the land transfer could possibly move forward.

Called Chi’chil Bildagoteel in Apache, Oak Flat is listed on the National Register of Historic Places for its spiritual and cultural significance to at least a dozen southwest Native American tribes. It contains hundreds of indigenous archaeological sites dating back 1,500 years.

“This is the right move,” said Terry Rambler, chairman of the San Carlos Apache Tribe. The government “failed to follow the law in the preparation of a sham environmental impact statement that was used to justify trading away our sacred land to wealthy foreign mining companies.”

[bladeXcrasher]

If it's not protected, greedy corporations will ravage the land of any resources, however small, by whatever means necessary.

[PC2]

Somewhat, if all non-private lands and natural habitats were given to the private sector today for the purpose of industry or residential development then it would be damaging to society. If it's just like 0.2% of the total surface area we're talking about per year then I view it as a positive force for economic growth since we can handle environmental issues and feedback at that scale.

...sacred Native American site to a multinational mining company by March 11.

...spiritual and cultural significance...

...trading away our sacred land...

Native Americans should have their private property and we should preserve cultural and historically significant sites but nothing is spiritual or sacred so let's just stop with the voodoo and mumbo-jumbo already.

[D Luniz]

yes, for the same reason we need public beaches.

without them, you'd be paying Six Flags admission prices to see a tree
Disney's Yellowstone adventure to see Ol' Faithful. need I go on.

[Draco-Onis]

yes, for the same reason we need public beaches.

without them, you'd be paying Six Flags admission prices to see a tree
Disney's Yellowstone adventure to see Ol' Faithful. need I go on.

I think you are giving the right wing giant boners with those ideas.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Native Americans should have their private property and we should preserve cultural and historically significant sites but nothing is spiritual or sacred so let's just stop with the voodoo and mumbo-jumbo already.

Should get rid of that whole "God Bless America", "In God we trust" and swearing on the Bible shit too.

[PC2]

Should get rid of that whole "God Bless America", "In God we trust" and swearing on the Bible shit too.

Yeah, I try not to get triggered by the supernatural but it's hard sometimes. I subscribe to humanism which says human interests are supreme and above everything else such as deities, non-human animals, and the environment. Even humanism is somewhat like a religion though because we have no actual proof that says we should value humanity above all else even when it comes at the cost of making other species go extinct and destroying the natural environment for human purposes.

[D Luniz]

Should get rid of that whole "God Bless America", "In God we trust" and swearing on the Bible shit too.

something, something, PH34R THE KOMMUNISM!!! is why that 1950's cold war relic wont be gone in our lifetimes.

[Endus]

Native Americans should have their private property and we should preserve cultural and historically significant sites but nothing is spiritual or sacred so let's just stop with the voodoo and mumbo-jumbo already.

All you're expressing here is your own intolerance and prejudice against Native Americans and their culture(s) and history.

Literally nothing else.

[Milchshake]

All you're expressing here is your own intolerance and prejudice against Native Americans and their culture(s) and history.

Literally nothing else.

Ya my jaw dropped when reading that.

A person would have to be extra edgy and miserable, to not feel spiritual when looking at the Grand Canyon, Yosemite, Banff, or Jasper. More so if one's family and community have been connected to these places for thousands of years.

[DingDongKing]

Yes. Needs no elaboration.

[ParanoiD84]

For sure

If it's not protected, greedy corporations will ravage the land of any resources, however small, by whatever means necessary.

Also this.

[Yadryonych]

As long as there are third world countries to strip-mine for copper, of course it should be conserved. But it can only be conserved as long as overall demand for spirituality is higher than demand for copper

[ohtlmtlm]

yes, public lands for the use by the public is a important part of getting people to care about their state. Washington State wouldn't be the "Evergreen state" if we allowed loggers to clear cut all of our forests nor would we have the hiking pnw thing. Generating revenue simply by doing nothing other than telling people they cannot build houses and preserving micro ecosystems in certain areas and mitigating when possible makes for a pretty great place to live, and raise a family that can experience nature like it once was.

[PC2]

Ya my jaw dropped when reading that.

I apologize, some words trigger me and then I turn into a shock jock.

A person would have to be extra edgy and miserable,

You can't be serious. Environmentalists are way more miserable than proponents of the private sector and industry.

to not feel spiritual when looking at the Grand Canyon, Yosemite, Banff, or Jasper.

I get what you're saying and I do appreciate the wonder of nature. It is a great inspiration to mankind. However I'm not worried that we are 'permanently' destroying anything for all future generations to come because based on my understanding people can eventually simulate past states of the natural world and virtually experience them in a way that is practically indistinguishable from experiencing them in base reality. So I'd rather grow civilization and speed up human progress so that Earth is more like a ecumenonpolis where future people could simply experience nature in a virtual space whenever they want.

Of course if you don't think any of that will be possible in the future and if you think ecology or agriculture is going to collapse then yeah I could see how you(an environmentalist) would believe that we are creating a nightmare scenario and a dystopia for all future generations. I'm confident that won't be the case though.

More so if one's family and community have been connected to these places for thousands of years.

People become overly sentimental and attached to the world as it is in the present or as it was in the past and that's irrational. The future has solutions to those concerns.

[Draco-Onis]

People become overly sentimental and attached to the world as it is in the present or as it was in the past and that's irrational. The future has solutions to those concerns.

Would you be fine with people destroying the graves and desecrating the bodies of members of your family? under your thinking that shouldn't be a problem.

[TigTone]

Would you be fine with people destroying the graves and desecrating the bodies of members of your family? under your thinking that shouldn't be a problem.

IIRC PC2 view in life is Money > everything else is expendable.

[Endus]

IIRC PC2 view in life is Money > everything else is expendable.

Also;

People become overly sentimental and attached to the world as it is in the present or as it was in the past and that's irrational. The future has solutions to those concerns.

Literally magical thinking. All problems will magically solve themselves in time without undue harm because the future is magical and perfect and you can definitely predict exactly when innovations will occur ahead of time.

That's the real core bugaboo with his thinking. Any issue you raise with any position he holds gets this treatment; "oh, that doesn't matter, a solution will magically be pulled out of a unicorn's ass before it's ever a big enough problem to worry about." Just completely useless drivel.

Worse than useless; he uses this argument to oppose actual efforts to solve the problem today, because a magical unicorn fart will appear in the future.

[PC2]

Would you be fine with people destroying the graves and desecrating the bodies of members of your family? under your thinking that shouldn't be a problem.

Yeah if my ancestors couldn't be relocated then I'd have an ethical responsibility to greenlight a mining project that could destroy their corpses. Reason being is that society needs metal to prosper and succeed where as the remains and honor of my ancestors is just something that is nice to have but it doesn't help society in any real way.

[Draco-Onis]

Yeah if my ancestors couldn't be relocated then I'd have an ethical responsibility to greenlight a mining project that could destroy their corpses. Reason being is that society needs metal to prosper and succeed where as the remains and honor of my ancestors is just something that is nice to have but it doesn't help society in any real way.

That's not what I asked I said if it was okay for people to destroy the graves and desecrate the bodies of members of your family members and loved ones. So is that a no? because these people know where their loved ones are buried. You seem to have no idea about our history when it comes to land ownership with natives.