Solution for M+ leavers....

[Keldion]

The problem with advocating solutions for M+ leavers is that the Wow community appears to want to pass the buck to Blizzard instead of managing the issue themselves. We already handle gatekeeping on high-level raids and PVP; why should M+ be different?

Whitelisting/networking with players who impact you positively is my preferred approach.

[Electric Lighter]

The problem with advocating solutions for M+ leavers is that the Wow community appears to want to pass the buck to Blizzard instead of managing the issue themselves. We already handle gatekeeping on high-level raids and PVP; why should M+ be different?

Whitelisting/networking with players who impact you positively is my preferred approach.

I've ran hundreds of keys so far and I have never really encountered leavers beyond blown keys. I have a sinking suspicion that people are more interested in forcing people on multiple hour death marches through keys that were doomed from the start rather then random leavers.

[Grimbold21]

Was doing a HoA +10 I think yday. Maybe +11.

We get to the 2nd boss. Before we start, I tell people "Remember to place the circle on the little gargoyles", because I've been sort of spamming HoA post 9.0.5 and this has been failed way too many times for my liking.

First boss attempt, first circle, mage doesn't move. First boss try second circle, mage doesn't move, we die and he writes "omfg". We come back, 2nd try, the mage gets the circle again, now the 3rdtime, and doesn't move. We wipe.

In conclusion, the mage is the first person to ditch the group.

[Deneios]

The game needs ignore account instead of the ignore character. How am i suposed to blacklist dumb asses who waste time when they can be annoying with their alts

[Zbrojny]

The only plausible solution to this problem is being very clear what you expect in your group description ("no leavers" etc.) and hoping for the best.

Any automated solution would punish innocent people in a lot of situations. There are many cases when it's plausible to leave the group:
- unanimous decision to stop the run (because you failed to kill a boss and now you'd have to try without Bloodlust/Pride buff)
- leaving because someone in the group refuses to play and just stands still or runs in circles (this DID happen to me, guy was supposedly drunk senseless)
- verbal abuse
- false group advertising (group saying +15 and a guy starts +7 key - I had this happen!)
etc.

Some ideas I read here lack of basic common sense, like "show runs started - runs completed on RIO" - that particular suggestion would punish not only the leaver but everyone else that was in the group, seriously ppl.

Now this is important, so get it right: Any player rating based solution would first and foremost be used by the most toxic players. Were this implemented on RIO or anywhere else, when a guy leaves your group, you'd most likely be review-bombed with "retard doesn't know how to play his class" before you can type "leaver". Would you guys really trust those toxic people who ruin your runs to give honest opinions about YOU?

The only thing that would maybe help reduce the problem, would be if Blizz (or some friendly Addon creator?) let us quickly add and filter by specific tags to groups, so that people know what to expect. Things like "finish no matter what", "timed only", "meta only", "non-meta welcome" etc.). If people got used to using that, or at least putting those things in description, then majority of those people who tend to leave groups would stick to "timed only" runs and you'd never have to play with them again.

It would also help a lot of people who feel rejected from groups, while they only apply for the last spot. If you saw a "CR needed" tag on that group, you wouldn't apply and feel rejected as a hunter, right? Same for "need ranged", "BL needed" etc. The more information on the group, the better setup (expectation and group composition wise) you end up with, and you don't waste time applying for groups that apparently only need a rogue for a skip.

TLDR: The best time to deal with the leaver problem is before he joins your group, not after he leaves.

[chiddie]

The only plausible solution to this problem is being very clear what you expect in your group description ("no leavers" etc.) and hoping for the best.

Any automated solution would punish innocent people in a lot of situations. There are many cases when it's plausible to leave the group:
- unanimous decision to stop the run (because you failed to kill a boss and now you'd have to try without Bloodlust/Pride buff)
- leaving because someone in the group refuses to play and just stands still or runs in circles (this DID happen to me, guy was supposedly drunk senseless)
- verbal abuse
- false group advertising (group saying +15 and a guy starts +7 key - I had this happen!)
etc.

Some ideas I read here lack of basic common sense, like "show runs started - runs completed on RIO" - that particular suggestion would punish not only the leaver but everyone else that was in the group, seriously ppl.

Now this is important, so get it right: Any player rating based solution would first and foremost be used by the most toxic players. Were this implemented on RIO or anywhere else, when a guy leaves your group, you'd most likely be review-bombed with "retard doesn't know how to play his class" before you can type "leaver". Would you guys really trust those toxic people who ruin your runs to give honest opinions about YOU?

The only thing that would maybe help reduce the problem, would be if Blizz (or some friendly Addon creator?) let us quickly add and filter by specific tags to groups, so that people know what to expect. Things like "finish no matter what", "timed only", "meta only", "non-meta welcome" etc.). If people got used to using that, or at least putting those things in description, then majority of those people who tend to leave groups would stick to "timed only" runs and you'd never have to play with them again.

It would also help a lot of people who feel rejected from groups, while they only apply for the last spot. If you saw a "CR needed" tag on that group, you wouldn't apply and feel rejected as a hunter, right? Same for "need ranged", "BL needed" etc. The more information on the group, the better setup (expectation and group composition wise) you end up with, and you don't waste time applying for groups that apparently only need a rogue for a skip.

TLDR: The best time to deal with the leaver problem is before he joins your group, not after he leaves.

There is no effective solution until there is a timer.

Leavers do leave because they see timer cannot be beaten and going on would mean “waste” even more time.

[Lazerbrain]

Blaming tanks and healers is the most stupid thing you can do, if your a dps and you think you can do better healing or tanking, you should probably not play as a dps.

Sometimes its the healers or tanks fault, but in my experience, not that often, mostly its bad dps not knowing what they are doing while just trying to top the dmgmeter.

[chiddie]

Blaming tanks and healers is the most stupid thing you can do, if your a dps and you think you can do better healing or tanking, you should probably not play as a dps.

Sometimes its the healers or tanks fault, but in my experience, not that often, mostly its bad dps not knowing what they are doing while just trying to top the dmgmeter.

Unfortunately tyr weeks do expose failing to boss mechanics 100%, even with pride and lust bosses last so much that healers cannot just compensate mistakes forever.

This week I lost count of NW and ToP failed because ppl couldn’t handle Stitchflesh’s or Gorechop’s hooks, for example.

[Zbrojny]

Sometimes its the healers or tanks fault, but in my experience, not that often, mostly its bad dps not knowing what they are doing while just trying to top the dmgmeter.

Well some dps players are not aware of how much they can do outside of just 'nuking', that makes tank/healer jobs much more bearable:
- interrupting, stunning, knockbacks, CC-interrupting, all those things that break big trash abilities
- planned use of personals to reduce damage taken instead of triggering dmg reduction when you're already at 10% HP
- just standing in the damn aoe heal / antimagic zone

There's just so many things most dps classes can do... I mean I play a hunter, I've gone to 1500 RIO (nothing impressive I know but still proud of myself) and I still feel like I'm not doing half the things I could when I retrospect my runs. I mean I get 2 damage reductions from conduits alone (mark and FD), and half the time I forget to mark the Pride or FD before big AoE hits. There's a learning curve for every role, and it DPS players often totally neglect the self-preservation aspect of it.

[Jotaux]

Ran a +15 plaguefall. We wipe last boss once so the ele shaman leaves.

[reckleon]

Well i left a few times myself. Mostly if we wipe to much early i see no point continuing. Or when more then 1 is getting boosted in a +15. Like some have high rio and cant even do 3k aoe dps on a highpack. 'Like why would annyone waste their time to time a key if the group is clearly showing it aint doable after few trash and heck even fist boss?
U play the game for ur own enjoyment and if a group doesnt bring u this why stay and put urself trough shit u dont want to be bothered with. Punishing a Leaver with Rio is stupid. Cause it aint a personal error deciding u want to continue with the group yes or no. Basicly if u dont want people to leave get pre pared dont make mayor errors to deplete a key and ur set.
Same with pugging Raids People leave there aswell yet it is easier to replace people cause their aint no timer. But even then u be good or get kicked.

[Grimbold21]

This one I was in the fence about.

A +12 HoA I think it was. Before we start, the tank emphatically stated that he wouldn't tolerated ninja pulls/extra packs, because he had just done several dungeons where this resulted in the dungeon being failed.

Our dungeon starts - no venthyr btw - and after we do the first 3 packs with hero we move right. Pull the 2 mobs on the circular platform. One of the melees likely body pulls the gargoyle.

The tank dies, we're still alive and running back to him with the gargoyle, while the tank asks who pulled it and told us he wouldn't accept this. The party leader calls him an asshole while the tank reiterates that he warned us. Leaves, run's over.

[Loveliest]

So I had a super amusing leaver earlier this week. It was before the key started, so it doesn't really count, but it was so weird, I have to note it.

Has a guy leave the group -- a group he made -- because we summoned him (we were at the stone and he was still in Oribos).



Apparently summoning people is creepy and cultish! He immediately relisted the key for a new group too, so it wasn't like he changed his mind about the key or something came up and he just wanted to say something ridiculous as he was leaving.

Oh wow. I thought people were this odd only in leveling dungeons. Like tanks getting upset hunters are misdirecting, not understanding what the spell does. I guess these people eventually get to max level.

[Tziva]

This one I was in the fence about.

A +12 HoA I think it was. Before we start, the tank emphatically stated that he wouldn't tolerated ninja pulls/extra packs, because he had just done several dungeons where this resulted in the dungeon being failed.

Our dungeon starts - no venthyr btw - and after we do the first 3 packs with hero we move right. Pull the 2 mobs on the circular platform. One of the melees likely body pulls the gargoyle.

The tank dies, we're still alive and running back to him with the gargoyle, while the tank asks who pulled it and told us he wouldn't accept this. The party leader calls him an asshole while the tank reiterates that he warned us. Leaves, run's over.

I think that policy is fine on a general level, because it's certainly not uncommon in dungeons for DPS to "help" by pulling for the tank which is (at best) annoying for the tank to manage. In keystones, at worst, they can actively mess up the count.

That said, some leeway should be given for accidental body pulls. They can happen, especially in a place like Halls. I think quitting because one person made a mistake is pretty harsh unless the group had agreed timing only / no completion and it was clear you weren't going to do that as a result.

[Alroxas]

This one I was in the fence about.

A +12 HoA I think it was. Before we start, the tank emphatically stated that he wouldn't tolerated ninja pulls/extra packs, because he had just done several dungeons where this resulted in the dungeon being failed.

Right there. That's the moment you should have said... Well that's a really high benchmark, let me go find another tank instead. The fact that you continued with said tank is your acceptance of his terms.

This is what folks need do/consider. Establish the goals and expectations BEFORE starting the run. If there's any discrepancy, any disagreement, then part ways and find new members. Yeah it might suck to have to wait another 10~20 minutes for a healer or a tank (or that specific meta class), but that's time well spent then having someone quit mid run because their goals/expectations didn't match yours.

[Grimbold21]

Right there. That's the moment you should have said... Well that's a really high benchmark, let me go find another tank instead. The fact that you continued with said tank is your acceptance of his terms.

This is what folks need do/consider. Establish the goals and expectations BEFORE starting the run. If there's any discrepancy, any disagreement, then part ways and find new members. Yeah it might suck to have to wait another 10~20 minutes for a healer or a tank (or that specific meta class), but that's time well spent then having someone quit mid run because their goals/expectations didn't match yours.

Well, it wasn't my key, so not my place to dictate terms.

The tank had said he had done 4 or 5 dungeons where ppl were pulling unnecessary mobs, and told us not to do it otherwise he'd leave. Myself, I attributed some hyperbole to this - obviously I was wrong - so it was a bit unexpected that he left after 1 single extra mob pulled.

I also think that the leader was wrong for flaming the tank because the latter made it clear what would happen.


But I'm personally not a ditcher. Think I wrote on an earlier post, that last week/reset I had been farming HoA and people were failing at the second boss, with the placement of the circle at the small gargoyles, more times than they should at keys above +10. Failing even after being told what to do before the fight, failing repeatedly.

So, I was on the fence because I empathized with his frustration, but then again I wouldn't leave.

But really, if you're doing keys between +10 and +15 and failing at tactics, then you really have no business being there.

[Progenitor Aquarius]

You can't be forced to stay if the play is hellish. That's like a torture. I have been once doing Necrotic Wake 13 on Alliance and everything was perfect unless we killed 2nd boss and tank just decided to pull random trash then he was like: "Oh shit guys let's die". This cracked me up so hard that I couldn't play anymore. The best stuff was when everyone went up and he dedicated to do some percentage downstairs and told us to die so we could go down. That's like a perfect logic to lose about 1:30 timer instead 30 seconds. Then after this tremendous torture my mind just blew up. So, the solution to better mythic + and leaving is probably to play better are read up about the dungeon before even starting it. Also seeing people not finishing 10 in time and going for 15 is just crazy.

[Volardelis]

Did a +15 NW (trying to get plate helm) and a hunter in our group just went afk. They never came back. We managed to complete the key but didn't time it. There was no problems whatsoever before they went afk. We did wipe on a prideful after the 3rd necromancer (we skipped the mini boss before bridge) and that was when we noticed the hunter was afk. Easily would've timed it if they didn't disappear without saying anything.

So sometimes you get leavers for no actual reason and it is annoying when they don't give you one period.

- - - Updated - - -

This one I was in the fence about.

A +12 HoA I think it was. Before we start, the tank emphatically stated that he wouldn't tolerated ninja pulls/extra packs, because he had just done several dungeons where this resulted in the dungeon being failed.

Our dungeon starts - no venthyr btw - and after we do the first 3 packs with hero we move right. Pull the 2 mobs on the circular platform. One of the melees likely body pulls the gargoyle.

The tank dies, we're still alive and running back to him with the gargoyle, while the tank asks who pulled it and told us he wouldn't accept this. The party leader calls him an asshole while the tank reiterates that he warned us. Leaves, run's over.

Yeah I'm on the fence with this one too. I know from experience as both a tank and dps that sometimes you get really crazy paths when you use charge and it can pull extra mobs that you didn't plan on pulling. So if it was an accidental pull, the tank is an arsehole. But if it was intentional, then I agree with the tank. Sometimes shit does happen.

[Lazerbrain]

https://www.facebook.com/messenger_m...ZKnl4TODwhYLZ1 dont know if you can see this but i just thought it fitting with anduin singing.

[Millyraynge]

Beware this is a ranting topic:

I used to be a semi hardcore WoW player but now I am a casual with just item lvl 203 main character.

I make sure to do M+10 every week once for at least the weekly.

My current guild is semi hardcore mythic raiding that I used to raid with them for years but now I just do with them some alt runs heroic raiding and normal mode can't raid mythic with them anymore.


Yesterday I decided to do my weekly M+10 key with 3 of my friends and one PUG warlock with item lvl 209 and raider io 900+

We did plaguefall dungeon we reached the first boss then the warlock decided no to dodge the basic simple breath cone of the boss and died. First time he apologized then we wiped, I didn't say anything then it happens three times the same issue. Then he said "fk this" then left.... I mean the key was already ruined since we wiped three times because of him....so why the dick move and leaving like that is just beyond me....


I never ever like to go with pugs really but sometimes I have no choice because my current guild is busy doing 15+ mythic keys and mythic raiding sometimes they do alt run joining my 10 keys but yeah it is not always. Sometimes I have to pug one player or two then this shit happens...


There has to be a solution for players like that who are purposely ruining other players keys...

No matter what system you are going to implement, there is always a way to avoid/abuse it. #collateraldamage