"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
"Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"
People who forcefully use labels are simply walking ad hominems. They have no solid argument and feel the only way they can build up their own opinion is to tear down others publicly and cover their trail by attempting to spout opinions as facts. Of everything wrong with the game, it's people like him who can't simply address the topic but also have to insult the player. I guess that is why Shadowlands is so popular for me. I'm not seeing the negativity in the game that I saw with WoD and BfA, and people like him are unsubbing and running here to bitch about it.
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BfA had potential with sprawling zones, new allied races, and quirky accents; however, I am in agreement that Legion (even though I hate everything about the invasion as it happened in 3 different expacs) was a much better expansion and more well rounded in terms of things to do, places to see, and large scale raiding. For me, Tomb of Sargeras was on par with scale and bosses for something like Ulduar, even though nothing will likely ever dethrone Ulduar in my world.
“Be the change you want to see in the world.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi
I really don't understand how people can say that SL is just as bad as BFA. I fucking loathed everything about BFA, SL simply takes too long for the next content patch to land.
I hated BFA more each day I played it, I don't have that with SL.
That makes two of us. I guess it depends on how your specific favorite piece of content works in both expansions. The overall plot is even worse and 9.1 is still not on the PTR but on the other hand the leveling changes, the ability unpruning and the new character creator options are most welcome.
I haven't actively stopped playing.... yet. But my play time has dropped, some weeks, to single digit hours worth. I do, usually , clear H.CN and do a couple of M+ but that's about it. The travel time, in particular, just kills my desire to play; and no, that's not a "I want flying" comment.
One of the few that liked, and misses, both BFA and Legion.
Yeah, I just don't see how anyone but an *ultra* casual could possibly think SL is as bad as BfA. Don't get me wrong, I unsubbed early on during both expansions, so I don't think SL is good, but BfA is a dumpster fire the likes of which the game has never seen, and hopefully will never see again.
If you do any sort of actual content, be it casual BGs, M+, raiding, or arenas, SL is better pretty much across the board than BfA. It's only when you get into the turbo casual, "I log in and do WQs for 20 mins each day" crowd that I could understand disliking SL more than BfA. SL world content is truly dogshit in every sense.
I agree that world content is dogshit in SL, but it's been dogshit for a long time. The only difference to me is that this time, it's not forced on you every day.
Well, i would take back bfa asap.
I used to sub for 6 month, everytime. Now my sub runs out. SL is terrible. Timegating, broken balance. Great Vault lottery, the player is substracted from gearing up. Al you can do is fill your great vault lottery if you are not into pvp.
Torghast = pointless, boring, unbalanced and unrewarding
Maw = see above
The Story is low aswell. I mean i dont care about those covenants and their fate. Im a proud horde member, but wrynns death in legion was way harder for me. The jailer doenst feel like a villain, more like an evil looking muppet....dunno. and all you can do in endgame is farming cosmetics if you are into dressing virtual barbie dolls....
so, yes i totally agree with you. pls legion 2.0 or at least bring bfa back blizz. sl is fail
I think that's precisely it. Certain pieces of the game are more important to different types of players. If you like PVP for example, SL is a clear winner. If you prefer story and lore, BFA probably wins out. And I think if you're a casual player, BFA wins as well. Covenants have issues but I prefer Soulbinds and Conduits much more than Magni and the Heart of Azeroth / Azerite system. However, the anima currency is way too restrictive overall and kinda hurts Covenants so in that way it's worse than Azerite in terms of distribution.
Yeah it's kind of a nuanced thing, but at the end of the day I still consider both BFA and SL less than ideal.
Last edited by ro9ue; 2021-03-19 at 11:22 PM.
Yeah well obviously it is a choice between shit and crap so even the winner is a massive failure. Hard to imagine BfA as winning in the story department, but what SL did to the Lich King's story is mind blowingly dumb. Also I'm still not sure why we should care about the Jailer or whatever he wants to do. Hell I don't really care about those we had to rescue. Thrall, Bane, Jaine and Anduin? I'm sure things are much more interesting in Azeroth now that they are out of the picture.
I'm not sure I would call the overall plot worse. At least we didn't casually commit genocide after starting a completely nonsensical war over a miracle mineral that had nothing to do with the target of the genocide, and everyone was somehow okay with it for no reason, only to forget about it for most of the expansion to fight off hentai monsters. Yet, anyway.
While the premise of shadowlands is a writing failure on the level of time traveling mecha-nazi orcs, completely demystifying the concept of death, the plot has really only one gaping hole and that is the forced covenant choice, because the dipshit in charge really wanted there to be this faux choice to justify his sYsTeMs. Technically even BfA itself was't that illogical once you ignore the starting point and only look at the first chapter of the expansion. We try to gather allies, because we need a new fleet and we can't be arsed to build one, while we fight other side to not get theirs first, not much room for error there. The way to achieve this is showing off to the respective faction while sabotaging the other faction .. okay we still had the whole dying planet thing going on and all that (which is why I'd argue it's worse than SL), but at the end of the day it's on the same level as the covenant choice; it's only there because the dipshit in charge really wanted us to use his sYsTeMs. At least in SL you don't have to pretend to be a complete rube all the time so the plot can actually happen.
I mean it can still change, but so far we haven't seen anything like following Nathanos willingly into a trap that might as well have been sucide (for us and him) or giving Sylvanas known eldritch artefacts, because surely nothing bad will happen..
You are welcome, Metzen. I hope you won't fuck up my underground expansion idea.
I don't agree with this at all. It's still modern WoW, so it still has many of the same trappings (WQs, focus on competitive/timed content, time-gating, over-reliance on "systemization"), but it's FAR less systemized, random, and frustrating than BfA was.
Shadowlands sucks for entirely different reasons imo. The content isn't very good, there isn't enough of it, and Covenants have just fallen down on the job completely. It also has a hint of that WoD-style "Do rated arena/RBGs/M+/Raiding or don't bother playing at all". I personally don't have much problem with that, but I can see how someone who plays WoW much more casually than I did would find that unacceptable.
To be absolutely fair I don't know the situation of most of the games. The reason I bring up FFXIV all the time because it is my new main game so I know the situation there the most. I don't have to talk out of my arse to make a point. And there when Yoshida is asked for example about a proper glamour log he says "Yes that is among the things I would love to do if only I had WoW's funding". All he accomplished, bringing back a game from a WoD/BfA level disaster and turning it into Wrath, he did on a much smaller budget than what Blizzard is using to create....SL.
@Wangming it would seem that SL's budget isn't as plentiful as Blizz would have us believe. After all, that sweet $200M paycheck for Kotick had to be squeezed out of somewhere... Chances are that WoW's budget wasn't spared
"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
"Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"