CensorshipU: Lawmakers Cut Public School Funding of 'Controversial' Classes

[Elegiac]

What it does is what matters, it so far only serve's capital

Again: no? The idea that it was constructed out of whole cloth by HR managers to sell books and create jobs for themselves is a blatant falsehood.

Your complaint seems to be that the reforms it's achieved thus far haven't completely dismantled capitalism as a system, therefore it "serves capital" somehow. No sweaty, it doesn't serve capital anymore than labor unions serve capital.

[Theodarzna]

The 1619 project did talk about how slavery came directly from economic needs I don't know if he read it thoroughly but that was a huge point. Also I do agree that the main focus needs to be about the economic aspect, but it can be both in my eyes with more emphasis on the economic side. There's seems to be the class reductionist vs identity reductionist divide. But you have to appeal to the issues of each identity first and let them see how capitalism plays a part in their discrimination.

And another comment responded best:

when you do the economic side you are actually doing both since poc are the most disadvantaged socieconomically. it's just that you will also inlcude another group which also needs a hand. it's the right approach and it's better optics, less resistance.

The focus on special dispensations is essentially a wrecker strategy to ensure no political progress or solidarity can happen. It is the kind of bonkers thinking that "America is too racist for Universal Health Care that everyone (including non-PoC) would benefit from, BUT we can totally make reparations happen which only 12% of the population would get and its unclear who is entitled to it or how". Once again another Jacobin broadcast when over the whole "Is America too racist for Social Democracy".

[Ivanstone]

What it does is what matters, it so far only serve's capital, it's why PMC's love that stuff and reject things like Universal wealth redistribution. It has become a lens by which Liberals can roleplay as radicals whilst functionally opposing socialism. In the real world its only use is moral laundering for capital and aiding corporations via HR departments disciplining workers. That is all it has ever done.

Or alternatively Capital just loves to sow division and prevent the study of their shitty policies.

And here you are merrily doing their bidding. They got you really well-trained.

[Theodarzna]

Again: no? The idea that it was constructed out of whole cloth by HR managers to sell books and create jobs for themselves is a blatant falsehood.

I go by what it's results have been. It has served to sell books, and sensitivity seminars and wreck political movements trying to achieve socialism. It is a distinctly Anti-Leftist political analysis. Great for Liberals, but Anti-Left.

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Or alternatively Capital just loves to sow division and prevent the study of their shitty policies.

And here you are merrily doing their bidding. They got you really well-trained.

Well according to the various Jacobin speakers I linked to, that is their case of what this stuff actually is and what its for. That its a means of controlling workers and preventing solidarity.

[Themius]

No? It's been an analytical lens of academic analysis for years that has recently been mainstreamed, and then decontextualized and punditized by bad faith actors. The same shit happened with feminist theory before conservatives realised they were starting to piss female voters off and they found their new thing to harp on: CRT.



I don't care? Stanning a think tank is kind of cringe.

Even so I don't think they're saying what Theo thinks they are.

Is there an argument that the issues around race are largely around class? Well yes... We can point to the bacon rebellion for proof of when whites and blacks who were both poor one slaves... one indentured both with free children which put them in a very similar class to each other. They worked together and rebelled together and the bacon rebellion was the last straw that created chattel slavery, virtually creating a new class and crushed the solidarity between indentured and slave blacks.

But as we go further on in history.... we have obvious racial issues, while these issues may come from initial class struggles from centuries ago.... that perhaps is less so important today. Today black and white of similar class and similar lifestyles aren't "together" but instead the whites will actively vote against their own interests and ruin their own public pools and such because they don't want blacks to get it.

Did this racism perhaps come from the rise of a separate poor white class vastly different to the black slave chattel class? Maybe... but that was centuries ago... the issue now is straight up racism. Not class.

So there's an "argument" to be made about class but... Marxism isn't "way" better than race theory... if anything they would just work and compliment each other... which there is room for obviously... idk why people are trying to make it either-or.

[Elegiac]

I go by what it's results have been. It has served to sell books, and sensitivity seminars and wreck political movements trying to achieve socialism.

Y'all are never going to shut up about Bernie losing South Carolina, are you? That's what this is really about, lol.

The irony in a circus of clowns calling themselves Jacobins being reactionary.

[Themius]

I go by what it's results have been. It has served to sell books, and sensitivity seminars and wreck political movements trying to achieve socialism. It is a distinctly Anti-Leftist political analysis. Great for Liberals, but Anti-Left.

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Well according to the various Jacobin speakers I linked to, that is their case of what this stuff actually is and what its for. That its a means of controlling workers and preventing solidarity.

People have opinions Jacobin isn't exactly an authority they're basically talking about various topics and making a case for something not a definite proof of something

[Elegiac]

People have opinions Jacobin isn't exactly an authority they're basically talking about various topics and making a case for something not a definite proof of something

Probably the biggest tell as to whether or not the opinion is actually reformist and not reactionary:

The principle concern isn't whether or not the theory being taught is correct or just.

The principle concern is its impact on unity.

[Glorious Leader]

I think I may have identified the problem.

I mean they were gonna try to offer people like him more education on the topic and then they cut funding for it. Its the circle of ignorance.

[Themius]

Y'all are never going to shut up about Bernie losing South Carolina, are you? That's what this is really about, lol.

The irony in a circus of clowns calling themselves Jacobins being reactionary.

They're not all bad, some of their videos are quite informative depending on the subject and who is talking, hosting, being interviewed.

Others I just flatly disagree with. Some I can see the argument (like on the race vs class thing) but consider the direction to be mostly wrong. The argument isn't entirely without merit though.

On South Carolina... Bernie exit polled well. People like the policies and among gen y and later Socialism polls better than Capitalism. So in that regard socialism is winning, however... people voted because Biden they felt was more likely to win, which came up a lot in interviews.

I think people don't understand how black people in the south felt on the issue... They're actively there in the middle of a portion of the country with shit tons of race issues including literal lynchings... and lawmakers making jokes about them. This was very much a vote about the right to life itself for some, so Biden was a much safer pick in their mind which is totally understandable.

[Glorious Leader]

They're interdisciplinary, incorporating history, sociology, anthropology, psychology, and likely some other related fields I'm overlooking at the moment. They aren't truly a part of any one, and thus can warrant study as a collective, as you need a grounding in all those fields to properly understand the subject.

Most universities offer interdisciplinary studies as a general rule; these kinds of programs are just a specific interdisciplinary curriculum established at the university, rather than a more self-directed course of study where the student in question is working out the requirements along with professors.

Just pulling up McGill, as it's one of the top schools in Canada, and looking at graduate studies exclusively (so we get programs with extended study options, not just baccalaureate-only ones), you can take degrees in such diverse things as;

Animal Science (no, not Biology, that's in an entirely different faculty)
Jewish Studies
Public Policy
Social Work (no, not Sociology)
Biostatistics

And that's looking at programs as a whole, not course offerings.

If we look at course offerings, you've got options like;

ANTH 575: Concepts of Race
COMS 400: Critical Theory Seminar
ENGL 352: Theories of Difference
GSFS 305: Critical Race and Social Justice Theories
GSFS 404: Politics of Identity

Picking some particularly-relevant titles.

Seriously; the opposition to these subjects is pretty much unique to the American culture wars perpetrated by arch-conservative types. Same reason you folks still have people pushing abstinence-only programs and not being laughed out of the room and such.

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More specifically, if you're interested in "getting a job", the training you want is available at a trade school.

University training is deliberately intended to be broader than just job skills. That's not what you're going there for, and if that's bothering you, you've really only got yourself to blame for not knowing what you were getting into.

I dont think it will just remain a uniquely American phenomenon though because its really just another symptom of the never ending commodification of every aspect of life. Yes their is a provincialist and often racist objection to these teachings but the larger threat to them is that they are not market oriented profit dominating fields.Education has to make a profit or be profitable. Health care has to make a profit or be profitable . It can and will happen here..

[Ivanstone]

Well according to the various Jacobin speakers I linked to, that is their case of what this stuff actually is and what its for. That its a means of controlling workers and preventing solidarity.

Capital figured out a long time ago if you get the poor to hate each other they won't notice when they're getting their pocket picked. Keeping people ignorant is the part of the goal and if they have a few tame "socialists" to piss on education that just makes their job easier.

Every word you type helps them get richer and your alleged goal drifts farther and farther away.

[Theodarzna]

Y'all are never going to shut up about Bernie losing South Carolina, are you? That's what this is really about, lol.

The irony in a circus of clowns calling themselves Jacobins being reactionary.

I see, well I'd suggest maybe you are simply a Liberal, and not a Leftist. Jacobin is a bit moderate, sometimes too liberal and not Marxist.

But if in your mind being in bed with Corporate America whom can seamlessly and flawlessly adapt and integrate and promote your viewpoint as well as the US State Department and Pentagon well, IDK what to tell you. If you are laboring under the belief that those guys are your ally, than I guess have a good one.

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People have opinions Jacobin isn't exactly an authority they're basically talking about various topics and making a case for something not a definite proof of something

I mean I'd say public intellectuals involved in a Leftist publications broadcast are more credible than Youtube comments guy or an MMO-C poster.

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Capital figured out a long time ago if you get the poor to hate each other they won't notice when they're getting their pocket picked. Keeping people ignorant is the part of the goal and if they have a few tame "socialists" to piss on education that just makes their job easier.

Every word you type helps them get richer and your alleged goal drifts farther and farther away.

It would seem the works of Kendi, DiAngelo and Wise are literally tailor made to make that all happen.

[Elegiac]

I see, well I'd suggest maybe you are simply a Liberal, and not a Leftist.

Lemme know when anti-capitalism is "Liberal", sweaty.

Jacobin is a bit moderate, sometimes too liberal and not Marxist.

They're not anything besides whatever gets clicks, which is what y'all don't seem to get about folks like this and Jimmy Dore.

But if in your mind being in bed with Corporate America whom can seamlessly and flawlessly adapt and integrate and promote your viewpoint as well as the US State Department and Pentagon well, IDK what to tell you. If you are laboring under the belief that those guys are your ally, than I guess have a good one.

The idea that this is somehow an inherent feature or even a goal of CRT is again, a blatant falsehood. No idea where you folks are getting it from.

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It would seem

We've already established that how things "seem" to you isn't reflective of reality. Pony up with some evidence that isn't an argument saying "it hasn't abolished capitalism yet therefore it must support capitalism".

[Themius]

I mean I'd say public intellectuals involved in a Leftist publications broadcast are more credible than Youtube comments guy or an MMO-C poster.
.

That is a fallacious argument. Take arguments on the basis of the argument... don't do the whole appeal to authority.

Youtube commentator isn't a profession.... do you mean you're a professional mmo-c poster and nothing else?

[Theodarzna]

That is a fallacious argument. Take arguments on the basis of the argument... don't do the whole appeal to authority.

Youtube commentator isn't a profession.... do you mean you're a professional mmo-c poster and nothing else?

Well, lets go back, Okay, I make a case. My first response is "THAT IS BASELESS!", okay, here is some public and Leftist intellectuals explaining how this stuff is garbage. Basically now you are just seemingly angry that I brought in sources and I'm guessing super peeved that it wasn't Fox or Brietbart so you are stuck having to actually discuss the evidence and work here.

So here are some people explaining why this isn't good stuff, and from a Leftist perspective. Because I've posted her enough to know that If I just say anything you will completely ignore it and insult me. So here is some extra stuff and citations for you. Because I know for a fact I could argue the sky is blue and get insulted for it and claimed it was some kinda Fash plot. Since nothing I say gets a hearing from people such as yourself, no matter what it is, I cited others to show "Hey, this isn't some Fox News position, this Kendi, DiAngelo, Wise stuff just isn't Leftist. Its basic Liberal Capitalism and doesn't rock the system at all."

So, citations are now an appeal to authority? Or are you just angry the sources aren't Fox or a Trump tweet which you came prepared to fight against?

[Freighter]

Oh, not wanting funding to be used for useless stuff is censorship now?

[Elegiac]

Oh, not wanting funding to be used for useless stuff is censorship now?

Cutting funding to education simply because you're ideologically opposed to that education regardless of its factual merit is a form of censorship, yes.

[Freighter]

Cutting funding to education simply because you're ideologically opposed to that education regardless of its factual merit is a form of censorship, yes.

There's nothing factual about it, lol.

[Elegiac]

There's nothing factual about it, lol.

That's nice dear, you saying that doesn't make it the case. And it's irrelevant to this being reactionary censorship on the part of American conservatives due to the increasing awareness of the country's and the world's structural problems.