If the night elves gave half of Ashenvale to the Horde, would there have been peace?

[Super Dickmann]

no he didn't, he kept trying to control and punish however breaks it, in fact during Thrall regime humans were under Thrall direct protection if they visit Orgrimmar (something alliance never did in SW, but they did in Theramore), Thrall was pro-peace strongly and pushing it
When ur entire squad is disobeying u, either u risk losing ur grip on all ur military, or just ignore some idiotic small skirmishes (which what wsg is officially lore-wise, small-scale skirmished not approved by either alliance or horde)

Point. Tolerate is closer to the right phrase. Thrall didn't endorse a large scale Horde presence there but he didn't stop the logging activities or the Warsong actively. The city was dependant on them and on the handouts to not run out. By the time Garrosh shows up at the city in late TBC, the situation hasn't improved, that's what spurs his change of mind regarding Thrall in the first place. It's the same as his attitude to what was going on with the Ring of Blood, as @Aucald mentions or warlocks. For reference I'm not making a point about Varian not having a reason to react the way he does emotionally or to have this issue with Thrall, the opposite actually - that because of how relevant his experiences in Orgrimmar and as the king of Stormwind, which was sacked and its city killed by orcs, he has a unique issue with them.

[Zuben]

It's just really stupid. All of this is just to make this faction conflict plot happen in cata. On a side note, personally, I don't get why people think the original writers of wow are any better than the current ones.

Fresh wounds hurt more. Tbh, the resource scarcity was the legitimate part of the war. The other was that Garrosh was a hothead who didn't have Thrall's support in those difficult days (nor to rein back his delusions of orcish grandeur). Twilight's Hammer capitalized on this. It went so far as to Garrosh not denying his involvement in the murder of some druids that were in fact killed by cultists instead of the Horde.

[Illusions]

The Horde does not know how to live sustainably, giving half of Ashenvale to the Horde wouldn't have granted peace, it probably would've started a war earlier as Night Elves would've been much weaker in the end - thus easier to pick off.

What kind of question even is this lol.
In same energy:

'Would there be peace if Orgrimmar was given to the Alliance (Night Elves)?'
Sure - Horde is severely weakened that they'd have no power to fight back.

[Steelangel]

Only way to sate Horde need of wood is to grow new wood at Azshara or Barrens. I dont see the problem in that, and its will require less efforts than guarding all forest, or even dying in wars.

This is, of course, a sensible solution.
But Orcs aren't sensible creatures. I'm sure the Tauren were all like "We have druids who can grow lumber trees!" and Garrosh was "No! Have to war against puny elves or Daddy will be mad at me for violating muh honor" or some shit.

I can't understand why people even play that faction.

[Dazmalak]

Nope. The Horde shouldn't settle for half of Ashenvale when they could have it all. A shame they suddenly grew a conscience under Sylvanas of all people, especially with their boots on the night elves throats. Should have killed them all and given all the butthurt Alliance fans a reason to cry "genocide!".

[Steelangel]

She had her Forsaken blight it. Because the Horde does not need any land, it just wants it. All of it. Giving them land will only result in them wanting more and when you resist they will kill you for it, while feeling totally justified about that.

The Horde are European imperialists from the 1800's? Sounds about right.

[geco]

I can't understand why people even play that faction.

And the writers can't either.

But hey there you have Trall, Voljin and Caien and all of W3 as an example of what the Horde should be. But instead they keep coming back to Garrosh and Garrosh with boobs and Garrosh comes cute or something similar. Soon. Or But the Crying Orc and the cowardly Tauren.

[Flurryfang]

Garrosh would properly gotten into the same scenario as Sylvanas did. With the NE so close to Orgrimmar, the danger will always be there and so, it would eventually lead to war.

Besides, the trees are something that the NE would never give away. Ashenvale, Hyjal and Darkshore is there ancient homes and the spirits who live there, their allies. They would fite to bitter end for these areas.

[Shrouded]

This is, of course, a sensible solution.
But Orcs aren't sensible creatures. I'm sure the Tauren were all like "We have druids who can grow lumber trees!" and Garrosh was "No! Have to war against puny elves or Daddy will be mad at me for violating muh honor" or some shit.

I can't understand why people even play that faction.

It's not just orcs. In this great time of resource crisis for the Horde, apparently the goblins devoted an enormous, insane amount of resources to a huge terraforming project to turn Azshara into a Horde symbol which is so ridiculously dumb that I have no words to describe it. It's so large that it's only really visible from orbit, or, I guess, on maps, which I rather generously assume was the intent. If they have the resources to do something like that, you'd think irrigation and cultivation would be on the table too.

[Soon-TM]

Basically like when Rome tried to bribe germs, huns and other barbarians - it worked for a few months until they found another reason to attack... or just attacked and found reasons later. Or havent even bothered with reason.

Friendly reminder that Romans didn't buy Alamans, Goths & co. off out of the (nonexistent) kindness of their hearts, but rather because the Roman military was in a state of increasing disarray after so many civil wars - not to mention the rampant corruption in Rome's leading circles.

They tried to paint a similar story during Vanilla, but it was just half baked, and at all rates they failed spectacularly with the Cata followups. Westfall is (iirc) the ONLY example, and it has no consequences anyway.

On the Horde, if you roll a Troll or Orc the old way, you are told that Durotar is nearly depleted of resources. There are some quests here and there that elaborate on this point, but all is suddenly forgotten once you step foot in the Barrens - and the cherry on top is that the issue is never mentioned (explicitly) in freaking Ashenvale. There is just ONE. SINGLE. QUEST dealing with the whole lumber business and... That's it.

[Tarba]

I can't understand why people even play that faction.

I guess that many players don't particulary like playing the random bland blond nice prince who helps unicorns, sings to birds and helps old people cross the roads, from any fantasy book for 6 years old children.

[geco]

I guess that many players don't particulary like playing the random bland blond nice prince who helps unicorns, sings to birds and helps old people cross the roads, from any fantasy book for 6 years old children.

Do not forget the part of betraying your allies when you need you most because it goes against your morale.
That's the best part of the Alliance.

[Hellspawn]

It's not just orcs. In this great time of resource crisis for the Horde, apparently the goblins devoted an enormous, insane amount of resources to a huge terraforming project to turn Azshara into a Horde symbol which is so ridiculously dumb that I have no words to describe it. It's so large that it's only really visible from orbit, or, I guess, on maps, which I rather generously assume was the intent. If they have the resources to do something like that, you'd think irrigation and cultivation would be on the table too.

That's on top of it yes. If the Horde would own Ashenvale, there would be soon no wood anymore, and they would turn it into a desert like Durotar and eventually they would harvest all the resources that it got.

[VladlTutushkin]

Oh sure, maybe we give them halve of the Eastern Kingdoms too with a summer home in Elwyn Forest. Then they can have a shorter way invading Stormwind when they decide to turn on us again for our friendlyness.

The history of the Horde proves clearly that everyone that was kind to them ended up paying for it. The kindness of the Draenei was repayed by genocide, the kindness of the Alliance and specifically Jaina after the Second War allowed the formation of the "new" Horde and was repayed with not one but two attempts to wipe the Alliance out, each time ending with thousands of dead on the side of the Alliance, a city reduced to smoldering ruins and the Horde extending it's reach more over Kalimdor, with now just the Draenei island remaining safe.

Garrosh was a glory-hungry fool with severe daddy issues that was just looking for any cause to start a war and play the big man while Sylvanas still is a psychopathic zombie that murders people out of sheer jealousy and maliciousness. Neither of them would give a flying frag about anything the Nightelves give them, they started wars because they wanted to. It becomes especially clear when you look at Darkshore after it was temporarily conquered by the Horde. Did they settle there? Start agriculture to feed the oh so starving Ogrimmar? No.
She had her Forsaken blight it. Because the Horde does not need any land, it just wants it. All of it. Giving them land will only result in them wanting more and when you resist they will kill you for it, while feeling totally justified about that.

Well said. If horde really wanted to they could have found a way to supply themselve from what alnd they have. Even better with all the extra land they got through allied races.

But thats not really about resources (as Garrosh said to Anduin once) its more about the “idea” of being “surrounded by enemies” which must be attacked and destroyed, preferably genocided too. Its about whole world, not just some quantifiable amount of resources. You cant give them enough because they want more. Give then Azshara - they want Ashenvale yet. Give them half an Ashenvale and they will complain that your half has more wood and looks nicer and want it too.

[BrintoSFJ]

No it would not. Because people are greedy, the more they get, the more they want. Even if Night Elves gave horde the whole of Ashenvale, they would just deforest the entire zone and then go deeper. I believe that Night Elves were just too nice, they should have never let horde set their feet in Ashenvale after the event of Warcraft 3.

[VladlTutushkin]

Nope. The Horde shouldn't settle for half of Ashenvale when they could have it all. A shame they suddenly grew a conscience under Sylvanas of all people, especially with their boots on the night elves throats. Should have killed them all and given all the butthurt Alliance fans a reason to cry "genocide!".

People like you make it very hard to hate that new horde “Council” because you clearly deserve all the shitty writing blizz can dish out for you.

So enjoy your cucked council and your Queen Calia Menethil, long may she reign over forsaken.

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I guess that many players don't particulary like playing the random bland blond nice prince who helps unicorns, sings to birds and helps old people cross the roads, from any fantasy book for 6 years old children.

Exaggerate some more, will you?

[Hellobolis]

This is the correct answer, if anything he didn't even want to stop to Kalimdor, he wanted to conquer the entire planet:

that was only later on. good chance he would never even have gotten popular as a potential replacement for thrall if the horde had had more resources early on. a less warmongery leader would have been a more likely successor.

that said, forest way to important to elves for them to just hand them over just to see them chopped down, so if the elves had decided to give them some forest after battle of hyjal, chances are it would have been the elves pushing for war instead.

the elves should probably have made a trade deal with the orcs. thrall would totally have let the elves harvest wood sustainably for them even if it meant more hardship in the short term.

[Dazmalak]

People like you make it very hard to hate that new horde “Council” because you clearly deserve all the shitty writing blizz can dish out for you.

So enjoy your cucked council and your Queen Calia Menethil, long may she reign over forsaken.

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Exaggerate some more, will you?

Ah yes, the greed of the Horde did become their undoing in the end since they managed to pillage all of the Alliance's boring and shitty plotlines to neuter themselves into complete ineptitude. At least we can both sleep soundly at night knowing that nothing interesting will happen with the current state of affairs.

[VladlTutushkin]

Ah yes, the greed of the Horde did become their undoing in the end since they managed to pillage all of the Alliance's boring and shitty plotlines to neuter themselves into complete ineptitude. At least we can both sleep soundly at night knowing that nothing interesting will happen with the current state of affairs.

Only reason Alliance was not as “exciting” as horde was because writers were too busy jerking off to muscly orcs instead of remembering that they have another faction to write for.

Take two identical mechanisms and then neglect one for several years or even a decade and then complain about why it dosent work anymore...

[enigma77]

I mean couldn't they have just sent all the Shamans and Druids to the Barrens and regrown the forests there?