I think mythic plus would work better if it didn't reward gear.

[Noctiphobia]

Whenever you don't get any gear (or significantly worse than in other content) in some content, it's niche. See challenge modes, and record low PvP participation in Legion.

[Necromantic]

While you're right, I do think that the customer support issues are dwarfed by all other problems; how often do people need said support, after all?

I'm not experienced enough to make claims on how influential the vocal forum-dwelling minority is, but if you say Blizzard has based changes to the game and/or policy on forum opinions, I believe you.

It's hard to tell but just from posts (vocal minority), it's often enough. And imagine all those who don't post. Heck, imagine being a new player jumping in, having a serious issue and after waiting 24 hours getting "Please visit our support site for helpful links! *This issue has been marked as resolved.*" Heading to that site and finding nothing that even remotely close to your issue. I've seen this a handful of times. It gets even funnier when someone gets so frustrated that they bring the issue to the CS forum, have someone reply with something non-helpful, the blues mark it as "preferred answer" and lock the thread.

I guess I'm perplexed. Like yourself, I don't play the game now but it's fun and engaging to vent about it. I'll stick to Diablo...

[Gaidax]

You'd have like 5 people in LFG then.

[Rinaul]

You're kind of countering your first statement by saying once a raid strat is nailed for the raid it's easy and saying people don't formulate strategies or learn from their mistakes. You have to do both of those in any form of raiding and PVP or you'll never kill anything. People obviously kill and win so they do learn. It's just not always at the same rate.

- - - Updated - - -



Cosmetics and mounts and titles worked in the past.

We get those from order halls now and I barely do that and that's easily no real effort. Would Def have less people do m+ for no reward. Other than the mount who is really running TC for that stuff?

[Malania]

We get those from order halls now and I barely do that and that's easily no real effort. Would Def have less people do m+ for no reward. Other than the mount who is really running TC for that stuff?

To be fair it's a lot more effort from the order halls than it was running the CM's. I've done the Order halls for only 3 classes and They're all high enough to do it. It just takes a lot of time.

[Advent]

I certainly wouldn't do it if gear wasn't part of it. I did challenge modes in MoP for the cosmetic armor sets, but didn't bother with them in WoD because weapon mogs are less appealing to me. Imagine if huge portions of the game's players decided not to engage with featured content for such whimsical reasons, like I did. I think it's been proven gear is a strong motivator. I like single player rpgs, but that's because of the fantasy of progression. Being weak, and becoming strong through leveling, acquiring new abilities and armor/weapons. It's the reason I don't play games without those things, because they bore the hell out of me. I could just watch the story on youtube and get the same experience out of a point-and-click story like those dull ass Telltale games.

[Necromantic]

Imagine if huge portions of the game's players decided not to engage with featured content

As someone who does high keys, M+ already does this anyway with how the system is designed to alienate.

[Hellobolis]

Lots of people do it for something like a trink or weapon they can upgrade to 220.

targeting a very specific item for very specific reasons is abit different imo, that occasinally happens with pvp/WQs and even LFR too.

not that i hear of many people actually doing that, back in mechagon you could make a living selling the fire mage tears.

[Hellobolis]

I did it for tank trink from DOS, I’m friends with a mythic raider who did it for a trink and specific ring/neck pieces with good stats.

But you’re right it’s not prevalent, particularly given that access to keystones limits what you can do.

yeah i _should_ get that trinket from hakkar. but i'm like meh cba already killed denatrius and you know you're gonna have to refarm it next patch anyways.

[Argorwal]

I just want no timer that you choose based on your gear and to have every boss drop loot like the game is designed to do no more Personal loot BS, Roll on loot the way its meant to be.

I would love to see the posts crying when they clear a mythic+ without ML and the items that drop can’t even be equipped by anyone in the party.

[ellieg]

yeah i _should_ get that trinket from hakkar. but i'm like meh cba already killed denatrius and you know you're gonna have to refarm it next patch anyways.

I am the same way sorta with my alts. Only going for ksm. Got it a few months ago. Now on alts I'm like why bother climbing into higher m+? As long as each do a +10 weekly i figured ill be decently set up going into 9.1 woth the 220 gear. On my main atm I'm like why bother going for more options in the vault? I've got ksm and don't plan on pushing more lol

[Tzunami]

Hell no!

It should reward more, not less loot.

And be upgradable to mythic-raid level.

I think +25’s should give the option to upgrade to 226. I think 220 is good for 15 considering how easy they are.

If it dropped 226 in 25’s you would have raiders infinitely farming M+ the first day of Raid Prog instead of doing the actual raid.

[Necromantic]

So m+ has become an integral part of the ecosystem that keeps a lot of people engaged and actually helps raiding guilds keep going.

That sounds like a guild niche. That's not how it is for everyone. An "ecosystem" would mean it was the exact same way for a much larger population outside your guild.

[Kehego]

Challenge modes were unsuccessful upon first implementation for a reason. Lack of power increase = lack of a reason to do it. Unless you were a devoted heroic (MoP) or mythic (end of Mop to WOD) raider looking for clout, that was basically the only reason to do them and acquire the cosmetic gear. They are pretty rare to see these days.

people mostly did them in the final tier and/or bought them tbh