Is Warcraft in the Dark Fantasy category?

[Beloren]

What do you think? I've felt it was border line for a long time, but having watched a bit more fantasy recently, it definitely is very much in the dark Fantasy category, it's not as Dark as Warhammer or elderscrolls, those are almost downright occultic, but it's not far off.

it's got some light elements and comic release, but it's not the wonder fest you might associate fantasy with.. but then if you think about it, most fantasy is pretty dark.

[huth]

Not even close. It's more Heroic or Epic Fantasy genre wise.

Sure, there are dark spells, but the heroes always triumph at the end. The atmosphere is generally positive, with negative events being treated as rare disasters, not commonplace occurences you just have to deal with. There are plenty of heroic characters around that genuinely mean well, and thoroughly evil factions are generally toppled relatively quickly.

[TheFirstOnes]

It's a mix between regular and Dark. Hell, it's a mix of LOTS of Fantasy types tbh.

[shoc]

Lol Warcraft is far less dark than even Harry Potter. I would say it's adjacent to Marvel and DC comic books in terms of its 'darkness'.

Warcraft is colorful and eccentric and the lore is either copy pasted from somewhere else or a pop culture reference, just like comic books. All of Uldum is an Indiana Jones references, the Old Gods and Void Lords are a Lovecraft reference, Paladins/DK are just Jedi/Sith, list goes on forever.

Every year there is a universe-threatening world-ending disaster that is saved by heroes that come in clutch. We throw down with cosmic gods and when we're not strong enough, get empowered at the last minute so we can punch them in the face to save the day. There are meta-jokes about how we've saved the world like 23 times now. Everyone speaks and understands the same language no matter what planet you're from or what species you are. Warcraft is comics 9 times out of 10 and every once in a while it puts its serious pants on for dinner, but rarely.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I'd consider "Dark Fantasy" not to be content, but tone.

A lot of really horrible stuff happens in Lord of the Rings, but the tone of the work is overall optimistic. It doesn't linger on tragedy; it's about pushing forward and trying to remain steadfast and upright and try your damndest no matter what to make a better world. So it is heroic fantasy.

Contrast that with Elric (by Michael Moorcock), where there is definitely an emphasis on the horribleness and the tragedy, and the tone of the series outlook is very cynical. That would be dark fantasy.

World of Warcraft has quite a lot of dark content, but I would say that the tone is almost never cynical. Lots of horrible stuff happens, but the story is ultimately about defeating that evil stuff and the world continues onward. So WoW isn't dark fantasy. It's more heroic fantasy (though it isn't anywhere near as uplifting as LotR, as there is no promise to reconstruct the world, or the permanent banishment of evil).

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it's not as Dark as Warhammer

Eh, people make jokes about how "grimdark" Warhammer is, but the tone wasn't on the horribleness and tragedy of it all (not counting the stupid end times shenagains because GW were idiots). Warhammer (fantasy and 40k) have a lot of dark stuff, but for the most part the stories are about standing up to that dark stuff and persevering. Yes, the Imperium of Man is horribly, horribly outnumbered, but so long as the spirit of the Emperor can come back as the Child, there is still hope, so we will keep fighting. Warhammer is very much heroic fantasy. It only delves into actual dark fantasy during the End Times novels when the emphasis of the story is on "everybody is going to die and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it".

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And elder scrolls being dark fantasy? lol

[LemonDemonGirl]

No, but the RP community makes it feel like you're playing Dark Souls/Warhammer or something.

It's about as 'Dark' as D&D tbh

[geco]

WoW has evil races (mostly bad writers) and cataclysmic events.
But at the same time it has no consequences and the lack of consequences is what prevents it from being a "dark" or good universe ... almost that it is preventing it from being a universe.

That is, if you do the Teldrazzil event and then you practically ignore it and the only thing you do related is "saving souls" then it doesn't even count as something dark.

[Zafire]

The closest popular game I can think of that I might consider Dark Fantasy would be Witcher 3, and even then I'm not sure. Warcraft definitely is not dark fantasy.

[Elkas]

No, but the RP community makes it feel like you're playing Dark Souls/Warhammer or something.

It's about as 'Dark' as D&D tbh

Modern Warcraft is a children's book compared to the stuff even the default setting of D&D's, Forgotten Realms, goes into when you go outside of the basic, cookie cutter adventures. Modern Warcraft is about what's cool and family-safe these days; it's medieval marvel.

Earlier Warcraft lore was a lot darker, but it certainly isn't anymore.

[shoc]

I'd consider "Dark Fantasy" not to be content, but tone.

A lot of really horrible stuff happens in Lord of the Rings, but the tone of the work is overall optimistic. It doesn't linger on tragedy; it's about pushing forward and trying to remain steadfast and upright and try your damndest no matter what to make a better world. So it is heroic fantasy.

Contrast that with Elric (by Michael Moorcock), where there is definitely an emphasis on the horribleness and the tragedy, and the tone of the series outlook is very cynical. That would be dark fantasy.

World of Warcraft has quite a lot of dark content, but I would say that the tone is almost never cynical. Lots of horrible stuff happens, but the story is ultimately about defeating that evil stuff and the world continues onward. So WoW isn't dark fantasy. It's more heroic fantasy (though it isn't anywhere near as uplifting as LotR, as there is no promise to reconstruct the world, or the permanent banishment of evil).

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Eh, people make jokes about how "grimdark" Warhammer is, but the tone wasn't on the horribleness and tragedy of it all (not counting the stupid end times shenagains because GW were idiots). Warhammer (fantasy and 40k) have a lot of dark stuff, but for the most part the stories are about standing up to that dark stuff and persevering. Yes, the Imperium of Man is horribly, horribly outnumbered, but so long as the spirit of the Emperor can come back as the Child, there is still hope, so we will keep fighting. Warhammer is very much heroic fantasy. It only delves into actual dark fantasy during the End Times novels when the emphasis of the story is on "everybody is going to die and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it".

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And elder scrolls being dark fantasy? lol

Warhammer is like "and so because the futile resistance failed approx. 8 trillion lives were lost in the span of about 4 hours. They all died in agony and demons ate their souls as they all went to hell. Also their bodies were turned into a zombie army because what else can we write to fuck them harder."

[Bramickias]

There's some tidbit of dark fantasy to be found here and there (Scholomance backstory would be one) but overall it's just regular fantasy stories where you save the world every week.

[Nnyco]

Warcraft and Elder scrolls?! Yeah... no. Sounds more like you have no idea what dark fantasy actually is.

[omeomorfismo]

most of the races are standard fantasy, then you have more tribal stuff with the horde, but still have to play standard fantasy tropes because the former...

then there are forsaken and mechagnome. but the former are definitely neutered now, the latter last the first comic, then it instantly became the classical boring fantasy trope...
worgen initially had some victiorian-esque vibe, but they were so neutered by "human potentian" that are just shades of themselves...

[Beloren]

Warhammer is like "and so because the futile resistance failed approx. 8 trillion lives were lost in the span of about 4 hours. They all died in agony and demons ate their souls as they all went to hell. Also their bodies were turned into a zombie army because what else can we write to fuck them harder."

And that is incredibly dark, it's not abyss level dark like Elric is, but still very dark.. I wonder if our thresholds are different, maybe some of you are so use to dark stuff, you've become insensitive to how truly dark a lot of these stories are you don't consider them dark unless they are abyss level dark.

I wonder.

But warcraft always has tons of people dying, darkness overwhelming everything... and we just barely manage to survive total obliteration. Nothing seems to ever recover in warcraft either, it's just on to the next catastrophe we also barely manage to stop. Granted it isn't as dark as some others, but it definitely is darker side.

The tone is a bit mixed, i'd say medium level dark, it's not light like some of the Netflix shows like Dragon Prince or some of the regular fantasy.

But evil is overwhelming and dominates the landscape o great lengths.

You see in LotR, you get hte impression Middle Earth is generally a much brigher place, but darkness came in that period of ime when Sauron returned.. so it was a crisis moment, and unlike Warcraft, that it happens every year, this was the fiirst timein nearly 3000 years, that things had become truly dark

You do get a sense of the shift in darkness levels as their is a contrast. I guess in warcraft the brightest points are in wow at the racial starting zones, it just gets darker and darker further down.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Warhammer is like "and so because the futile resistance failed approx. 8 trillion lives were lost in the span of about 4 hours. They all died in agony and demons ate their souls as they all went to hell. Also their bodies were turned into a zombie army because what else can we write to fuck them harder."

Maybe if you read a wiki summary about the overall history of the setting, but the actual novels aren't written like that. Certainly not Ciphas Kain or Eisenhorn or Ravenor or the Gaunt's Ghosts novels.

[Venziir]

What do you think? I've felt it was border line for a long time, but having watched a bit more fantasy recently, it definitely is very much in the dark Fantasy category, it's not as Dark as Warhammer or elderscrolls, those are almost downright occultic, but it's not far off.

it's got some light elements and comic release, but it's not the wonder fest you might associate fantasy with.. but then if you think about it, most fantasy is pretty dark.

Dark? Nope. Warcraft is basically Marvel with orcs.

[Beloren]

I mean its pretty gruesome if you REALLY think about it.

Remember Brennadam? In Stormsong Valley? People literally stuck to walæs with spears?

See its gruesome, but nobody gives a fuck cause its all pixels with no characterisation. Noone is gonna mourn "Brennadam Villager" whereas people will mourn a named character with loads of development.

But Blizzard is too terrified to kill off their darlings in meaningful ways, or when it makes sense.

Instead rather than someone, ANYONE, sticking an arrow in the back or front of Sylvanas' head after she'd made her speech and killed Saurfang, she escaped.

Because that's what the plot demanded she do.

Exactly, if you pause to consider what you are actually doing, and what is actually going on, it's pretty f'd up, and crazy, also quite dark in many players.

but the light pixels, and the comic releif tend to mask that for a lot..

I'm beginning to think people definiely have a differnet scale for dark. But when I think about the stuff that goes on in Azeroth, if it were to happen in my neighbour hood on even a small level, it'd be pretty dark.

For all their power levels, I would not want to live in Azeroth with all those kind of troubles and issues. It's like living in one of the worst warzones, nightmare scenairo.. admittedly it's not as dark and nightmarish as some other fantasies about, but it's pretty dark

[TheFirstOnes]

Lol Warcraft is far less dark than even Harry Potter. I would say it's adjacent to Marvel and DC comic books in terms of its 'darkness'.

Warcraft is colorful and eccentric and the lore is either copy pasted from somewhere else or a pop culture reference, just like comic books. All of Uldum is an Indiana Jones references, the Old Gods and Void Lords are a Lovecraft reference, Paladins/DK are just Jedi/Sith, list goes on forever.

Every year there is a universe-threatening world-ending disaster that is saved by heroes that come in clutch. We throw down with cosmic gods and when we're not strong enough, get empowered at the last minute so we can punch them in the face to save the day. There are meta-jokes about how we've saved the world like 23 times now. Everyone speaks and understands the same language no matter what planet you're from or what species you are. Warcraft is comics 9 times out of 10 and every once in a while it puts its serious pants on for dinner, but rarely.

Harry Potter isn't that dark. WoW is much darker, despite us winning in the end.

[Beloren]

Maybe if you read a wiki summary about the overall history of the setting, but the actual novels aren't written like that. Certainly not Ciphas Kain or Eisenhorn or Ravenor or the Gaunt's Ghosts novels.

But you have to admit, reading that wiki summary is basically exactly what happens without the colour the drama of a novel adds to make it swallowable, stripped down to what is actually going on it is like level 10 level of horrible..

you start to think there is a competition to see how much you can basically f'k up everyone.

[Orby]

lol no. Warcraft isnt Dark Fantasy... Its High Fantasy crossed with Modern Fantasy and Heroic Fantasy.

Unless Blizzard hires someone like Joe Ambercrombie to write for them. But Warcraft is so established to a certain style of world that even another writer cannot make the World of Warcraft move away from what it is.

Dark Fantasy tends to be in a more grounded. Like a Grim Dark style of fantasy like the First Law Trilogy or Game of Thrones, or Malazan Book of the Fallen, Prince of Thorns, Jade City or Poppy War... compared to them Warcraft comes across as a Saturday morning cartoon lol. . :P

Here's a nice selection of fantasy sub genres...

High Fantasy / Epic Fantasy
Low Fantasy
Portal Fantasy
Urban Fantasy / Contemporary Fantasy
Paranormal / Paranormal Romance
Fantasy Romance / High Fantasy Romance
Young Adult Fantasy (YA)
Children’s Fantasy
Fairy Tale Retellings
Sword and Sorcery / Heroic Fantasy
Medieval Fantasy / Arthurian Fantasy
Historical Fantasy
Comic Fantasy
Science Fantasy
Grimdark Fantasy
Gothic Fantasy / Dark Fantasy
The New Weird