The alleged 'Labor Shortage', how real is it?

[Kellhound]

Not true of any part of human history, in fact. Not even pre-history. It's an entirely modern conceit, manufactured by capitalists to try and justify their exploitations in wage slavery.

I did not say have a job, I said work.

[Endus]

I did not say have a job, I said work.

And I repeat; that statement remains untrue for literally every moment in human history, across basically every culture and society that has arisen, and dating back into prehistory.

There have always been children who are not expected to labour. Seniors who are the same. The injured or disabled, who have been sustained by others. And so on. You're just flatly, obviously wrong on this point; it's utter horseshit invented by propagandists trying to normalize capitalist exploitations.

[Zan15]

If I wanted to work at Walmart or any other shitty place that has them, I would apply.

but they are offering 17.50 now in my area an hour!!! With beneifits!!!

[kamuimac]

LOL i just went to walmart today. Trust me whatever gen self checkout we are on...its not working.
they had 2 people just running around helping people check out at the "self check out" stations.

learning take time. just give it couple of years and it will become natural .

[Kellhound]

And I repeat; that statement remains untrue for literally every moment in human history, across basically every culture and society that has arisen, and dating back into prehistory.

There have always been children who are not expected to labour. Seniors who are the same. The injured or disabled, who have been sustained by others. And so on. You're just flatly, obviously wrong on this point; it's utter horseshit invented by propagandists trying to normalize capitalist exploitations.

Children of hunter-gathers are expected to begin participating in gathering long before children in the modern world are expected to work. Throughout most human history, seniors were much younger than they are today. They worked greater lengths of time. It would be rare for a person in antiquity to be completely useless for an extended period.

The young were expected to work as soon as they were able, the elderly worked as long as they could, the injured/disabled were expected to contribute as much as possible. Freeloaders are not found much throughout history.

[Endus]

Children of hunter-gathers are expected to begin participating in gathering long before children in the modern world are expected to work.

In training them for their lifestyle, sure. Same way we have kids attend school.

Hunter-gatherers traditionally "worked" far less than modern people did, however. https://www.zmescience.com/science/h...ime-834234234/

And regardless; we've got myriad cases of prehistorical people surviving terrible wounds, or even practices like trepanning, and we can tell they survived because those wounds healed. This would not have been possible were they not being supported by others.

You're pushing disinformation and nonsense.

Throughout most human history, seniors were much younger than they are today.

Not significantly. The vaunted "life expectancy of 35" figure that gets tossed around is predicated on mortality of all ages. And in earlier agricultural societies up through the medieval period, while mortality rates were low, that was almost entirely due to high child mortality rates. If you lived to be 8 or 10, chances were you'd live to see 60 or 70.

For hunter-gatherers in particular, disease was generally far less of a problem to begin with. Hunter-gatherers are surpisingly healthy, in fact, and live to ripe old ages, generally; https://theconversation.com/hunter-g...lthcare-104157

You really didn't bother checking any of these claims, did you?

They worked greater lengths of time.

In prehistory? Already debunked.

It would be rare for a person in antiquity to be completely useless for an extended period.

Not as rare as you claim. You have no basis for your arguments. You're literally making this shit up.

Take Rome. Sure, high child mortality rate. But if you survived to your teens, you'd probably hit your late 50s; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogr...pire#Mortality

The young were expected to work as soon as they were able, the elderly worked as long as they could, the injured/disabled were expected to contribute as much as possible. Freeloaders are not found much throughout history.

This is just absolutely false, and you have no basis for any of this. You're literally just making shit up and expecting people to take it for granted. I don't know where you dug this shit up from, but it's clear you never bothered to check the validity of any of it.

[Kellhound]

In training them for their lifestyle, sure. Same way we have kids attend school.

Hunter-gatherers traditionally "worked" far less than modern people did, however. https://www.zmescience.com/science/h...ime-834234234/

And regardless; we've got myriad cases of prehistorical people surviving terrible wounds, or even practices like trepanning, and we can tell they survived because those wounds healed. This would not have been possible were they not being supported by others.

You're pushing disinformation and nonsense.



Not significantly. The vaunted "life expectancy of 35" figure that gets tossed around is predicated on mortality of all ages. And in earlier agricultural societies up through the medieval period, while mortality rates were low, that was almost entirely due to high child mortality rates. If you lived to be 8 or 10, chances were you'd live to see 60 or 70.

For hunter-gatherers in particular, disease was generally far less of a problem to begin with. Hunter-gatherers are surpisingly healthy, in fact, and live to ripe old ages, generally; https://theconversation.com/hunter-g...lthcare-104157

You really didn't bother checking any of these claims, did you?



In prehistory? Already debunked.



Not as rare as you claim. You have no basis for your arguments. You're literally making this shit up.

Take Rome. Sure, high child mortality rate. But if you survived to your teens, you'd probably hit your late 50s; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogr...pire#Mortality



This is just absolutely false, and you have no basis for any of this. You're literally just making shit up and expecting people to take it for granted. I don't know where you dug this shit up from, but it's clear you never bothered to check the validity of any of it.

I really suggest you study anthropology. Freeloaders are not common in history.

I know you like to think the masses are owed a living without having to contribute, but that isn't how society works.

[Dontrike]

I still refuse to use self-checkout. Fuck that noise, I ain't gonna do someone's job for free just so the store can further cut hours while they're already short-staffed.

I have to use those, I go right when the Walmart opens and they don't have a normal register going, but with Covid they require two or three employees to wipe them down and/or keep track of them when an error occurs. It also helps that I carry the 20-60 pounds of groceries home a mile and I have my own bags so I used less plastic in the end.

[postman1782]

but they are offering 17.50 now in my area an hour!!! With beneifits!!!

While good, I still will never check myself out, especially since I do not work there.

[Xyonai]

I really suggest you study anthropology. Freeloaders are not common in history.

I know you like to think the masses are owed a living without having to contribute, but that isn't how society works.

I mean, if we're getting to a point in society where folks aren't -required- to work to keep it going, then forcibly making them work just to satisfy some notion of 'contribution' just becomes counterproductive. Not saying we're quite there yet, but using 'It's human nature to labor and toil for reasons' as an excuse for less-than-stellar living wages is fucking dumb.

Just because some Bronze Age serfs had to spend their waking moments toiling in the fields for their lords or Neolithic humans had to laboriously go out and kill a Mammoth with sticks and rocks doesn't mean we have to stick to that standard for the rest of time.

[SirBeef]

I really suggest you study anthropology. Freeloaders are not common in history.

I know you like to think the masses are owed a living without having to contribute, but that isn't how society works.

And now we move the goalposts when are argument has been soundly defeated.

No one has ince suggested that freeloaders never existed.

[Shadowferal]

On an odd note; Overwork Killed More Than 745,000 People In A Year, WHO Study Finds

[SirBeef]

I still refuse to use self-checkout. Fuck that noise, I ain't gonna do someone's job for free just so the store can further cut hours while they're already short-staffed.

It's not that black and white. The two big chains and 1 local store that added the self checkouts years ago ended up not cutting back, sure cashiers were moved to do other things. But those stores ended up getting restocks out faster and were able to staff customer service better.

I read an article about 20 years ago, info probably outdated by now, but I held the same belief, and the article showed hiring for stores that added them went up. For me, the less time I need to spend around others and talking to others the better.

[Endus]

I really suggest you study anthropology. Freeloaders are not common in history.

I know you like to think the masses are owed a living without having to contribute, but that isn't how society works.

I have.

You're wrong.

Your claims have never been true of any point in human history or prehistory.

Empathy and compassion are human norms independent of culture or technology, no matter how badly capitalist sociopaths try and claim otherwise.

[kaid]

self-checkout is so stupid... i can't even fucking buy painkillers without it requiring staff to come and verify my age by checking my id... even though i have to use my personal identity number when i am going to start scanning... my store card that i also swipe to get bonuses and so on also has my personal data on it... yet the staff has to come and verify i am over 18 as soon as i buy otc painkillers...

even buying an energy drink triggers an age check...

goes faster to not use self-checkout if you have to buy anything age restricted... unless there is a huge queue...

Generally all I see self checkout do is to have one teller working 4-6 stations instead of one. I just avoid using them I figure thats the only way to send the message that they should be nixed.

[gondrin]

I really suggest you study anthropology. Freeloaders are not common in history.

I know you like to think the masses are owed a living without having to contribute, but that isn't how society works.

The thing you also forgot to mention in this is that while yes, most of those had to contribute, everyone also lived in community housing, everyone shared in a kill/grown crops(all food was community property) and the like even if they didn't help with it. You contributed to the community, not for yourself. Also, the older you got, the less "hunting/gathering" you were expected to do. You became a storyteller or gave advice on various things in life. The only thing people owned, at least in prehistory, were trophies from kills. Everything else, and I do mean everything else, was shared between everyone in the community. I apologize for the derail.

[Zan15]

learning take time. just give it couple of years and it will become natural .

these self check outs have been around for at least a decade +. How many more years?

Regional grocery chain has been using them for 10+.
They now have hand held scanners (for the last 5 years) you use to scan and bag your items as you shop. then check out at one of the self serve registers.


They really should make it so you can just check out from the scanner, but i am sure that will be version 123.5 !!

- - - Updated - - -

This is another example for me how the employees cause a lot of the trouble themselves.

It was about two weeks ago that the employees where I do my groceries were being pushy, making snippy comments that people shouldn't be afraid of using the self-checkout, because the 3 normal registers had full queues and nobody else was using the self-checkout registers. The self-checkout is relatively new and people aren't comfortable with it yet for the most part. Irony was that one of the snippy comments I heard made was: "It's their own fault then if they've to wait in line."

At walmart i have watched the self scanning employees scan an entire basket of goods for a customer. This happens almost every time i go there someone is basically providing a full service at the self checkout. They could have just opened another register lol

[Felya]

Most of Roman civilization was full of freeloaders, slavery was their 'UBI' / automated economy. Just have the slaves do all the work and give the profits to the Romans, although that is a bit of an exaggeration, because probably like our own automated economy in the future only a few upper classes will reap the benefits.

Slavery is not like automation...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotton_gin

Edit: FYI, looking at automation as a form of addressing simple, repetitive tasks, is only one side of the coin. The opposite is true as well... there is automation designed to perform extremely complex functions that are not common, where human error is both likely and would result is a lot of problems.

Anecdotal, but I have designed automation that changed process from 48 hours, to 2... where it didn’t cost me my job, but increased my project count from 1 to 18... currently, I’ve written automation that takes 5 min per project, where it’s at least a 30 min task. I am running into a problem, where I want to expand automation to cover far more complex tasks... but, people who currently do those task, neither want to learn how automation function nor understand how less stressful their work would be. Stuck in the old ways of fearing automation, instead of seeing an opportunity... which is ironic... I’m the oldest person there... outside top level management. They literally rather ctr+c, alt+tab, ctr+v... for hours... because they are afraid of clicking a button...

[Kellhound]

And now we move the goalposts when are argument has been soundly defeated.

No one has ince suggested that freeloaders never existed.

The argument has not been defeated. The only exceptions that have been put forth are those who do not work because they cannot.

- - - Updated - - -

I have.

You're wrong.

Your claims have never been true of any point in human history or prehistory.

Empathy and compassion are human norms independent of culture or technology, no matter how badly capitalist sociopaths try and claim otherwise.

You do understand the difference between supporting the few who cannot work vs supporting those who chose not to? I am sorry I was not clearer in the beginning, so here: Human history shows that those who can work have had to work, there are few freeloaders allowed.

[Elegiac]

I am sorry I was not clearer in the beginning, so here: Human history shows that those who can work have had to work, there are few freeloaders allowed.

Yeah but your version of history still supposes that barter economies are things that actually exist and that American imperialism is a good thing, so... we don't really care?

Human history shows that public assistance and charity are consistent features across the human experience, so trying to apply your silly little mid-century American lens to its entirety continues to be laughably wrong, sweetheart.