[Megathread] Amazon's New World MMO

[Swnem]

However, 1 is not far off from 2, and if you're going to argue that the problem is "it's too boring/it takes too long," that same problem can in fact be applied to other aspects of the game.

Not to mention, they already do accomodate people who don't want to pay for a boost.

It's called Level your fucking character like everybody fucking else. If that's too much to ask, because you hate the leveling system, I have news for you about your feelings on the game.



Because, as you may have noticed, people still hate the Shadowlands leveling and want to skip it.

Wow, surprising, all their work revamping the leveling system was a massive waste! I can't begin to wonder why they wouldn't consider doing it again.



How are new players accomodated by this system? They still have to level from 1 to max, and levels 1-50 are a barren wasteland since all the old characters start at 50.
How are old players experiences preserved? You literally just dropped them 10 levels and reset their gear, just like normal expansions do. In fact, their player power did just decrease in every new area because their gear from the old expansion literally is worthless in the new areas while leveling. You have the same problem as now, except WORSE because your gear instantly becomes worthless instead of being replaced by quest greens while preserving it's power until replaced.
Not only this, but people now need to keep separate gear sets per expansion, because they can't use gear from newer expansions in older expansion areas.
Not only this, but there's still the base 50 levels that nobody wants to level through, and will beg for a skip for.

Look at that! The exact same problems we still have, and then some. It's almost like you changed nothing.



Well if the entire game is a problem to you, I don't see why you'd stay, that's for sure.

You don't really have a point huh. This looks like someone flayling their arms without a target.
When did i say i didn't want people to level? When did i say i hated the leveling system? Who are you arguing with? Cause it doesn't seem to be me.

Yes, level your character like everyone else. Correct. That is my point. We seem to agree.
I don't hate the leveling system. I hate the paid boost system.

I have not heard anyone say they hate the new leveling system. What are you talking about?. You are all over the place man.

They are accomodated because they don't need to catch up with all the released expansions so far. They do the 1-50 that everybody did at the start. Barren? Well, yeah. That happens when you aren't there at launch. But, it is not an unsurmountable ever increasing amount to catch up, which is the actual justification you brought up to solving the problem outside the game.
Would you be happier if rather than 1-50 it's 1-20? Cause it's all relative. The time it takes to level is determined by the devs.
Nope. They were not dropped 10 levels. They still got them on the zones they achieved it. It does not disappear. The gear was awarded in the content and zones they aquired it. They can go back and still be at full power once more. That is the exact same thing you got atm with a new expansion and gear power resetting as you level.
The gear does not become worthless. It's still good for all older expansions and it's power is only diminished in the level 50 zones and the new one, where it will be replaced by greens. You can keep the old gear set until you get a similar one in power from the new expansion, which will then be good for past ones again. Very easy really.

You know... to use your own words. If they want to skip the game, rather than play it, they might as well not play it. What's the point? The base leveling works as an introduction to game mechanics and the world. It's important that players go through it. Otherwise why have a leveling experience at all? Just start at max level/have no level and gear becomes the level. Which btw is yet another design solution for the problem you say has no solution.

[kenn9530]

snip

There is no problems with xp boosts and such since they are not even available at launch, the main target is players leveling alts as new players most likely wont use them most of the time, leveing in any game eventually gets tedious so these systems are actually really needed for the hardcore playerbase that will be the largest source of steady income.

XP boosts just save a certain amount of hours so there is no problem with them at all. Even max level boosts are no problem you should only be able to get one if you already have a max level char though, but i dont even think a max level boost is even an option atm anyway.

[Swnem]

There is no problems with xp boosts and such since they are not even available at launch, the main target is players leveling alts as new players most likely wont use them most of the time, leveing in any game eventually gets tedious so these systems are actually really needed for the hardcore playerbase that will be the largest source of steady income.

XP boosts just save a certain amount of hours so there is no problem with them at all. Even max level boosts are no problem you should only be able to get one if you already have a max level char though, but i dont even think a max level boost is even an option atm anyway.

Yes, those are different objectives. It is an income source, that is the point. I'm just saying that it's a "problem" intentionally left to make money from.
For example, in FFXIV, after you get your main job up to max level, your other jobs get an XP boost.
That would be a good quality of life for alt leveling. But, they intentionally want to make money, so they sell that in the shop instead.

[Edge-]

Yes, those are different objectives. It is an income source, that is the point. I'm just saying that it's a "problem" intentionally left to make money from.

It's not a "problem" though, that's the point. They're not intentionally making leveling slow, if they were they'd launch with boosts which they're not doing.

For example, in FFXIV, after you get your main job up to max level, your other jobs get an XP boost.

Because the game is designed around multi-classing, I don't believe there's any analog in NW's design.

That would be a good quality of life for alt leveling. But, they intentionally want to make money, so they sell that in the shop instead.

Or late starting players catching up to everyone else faster so they can join the endgame.

"But, they intentionally want to make money," is a line that applies to literally every game released on the market. They're all designed to make money, dude.

[Nyel]

This game is a giant pile of sh*t at the moment. They at least need another year to make it fun and polish it. Pay to win or not doesn't matter, the game itself is just terrible. I can't even stand to play the Alpha anymore because there's little to no progress. They add stuff and content, but it's so pointless and bad and unpolished that it doesn't change the outcome. If they indeed release this in August, this game is dead by the end of the year and rightfully so.

[kenn9530]

Yes, those are different objectives. It is an income source, that is the point. I'm just saying that it's a "problem" intentionally left to make money from.
For example, in FFXIV, after you get your main job up to max level, your other jobs get an XP boost.
That would be a good quality of life for alt leveling. But, they intentionally want to make money, so they sell that in the shop instead.

Generating income is essential for a live service MMO, some boosts to speed up leveling slightly are actually a good thing and not available to start with anyway, most players will level a character the first time without these boosts at all, so it doesnt matter if new players come in several months later and have an option to speed up leveling slightly.

FF14 is a bad example to use since you didnt have an option to replay the story and im pretty sure you do now though but it is not really fun going through the FF14 storyline more than once, but you still have access to buy job boosts. Without the story you need an xp boost to level up or it will take forever.

[Swnem]

It's not a "problem" though, that's the point. They're not intentionally making leveling slow, if they were they'd launch with boosts which they're not doing.



Because the game is designed around multi-classing, I don't believe there's any analog in NW's design.



Or late starting players catching up to everyone else faster so they can join the endgame.

"But, they intentionally want to make money," is a line that applies to literally every game released on the market. They're all designed to make money, dude.

What is that supposed to mean? They are already making money! They are selling you a package physical or digital. Depending on the game they are also selling you a sub.
Making the game intentionally worse in order to make money on top of the price you already paid for it is not good entertainment. It's scamming.

If i remove all water accessible to you and then sell you water at 100x the price, i guess you will think that is ok too? It's cynical. You would be being played for a fool. It's the same principle here. That some people are ok with it is beyond me.
But, i don't care about TNW. I am saying this as a principle and how this is happening more and more in the games industry and the more you let them play us the fools, the more they will do it. The farther they will take it. I am not ok with that, so i speak up.

- - - Updated - - -

Incorrect. In fact, they are now forced through EVERY expansion, because as you said before, gear from one expansion doesn't work in the others. So if they ever want to go back and do BT, too bad, they don't have BC gear and will have to grind through the entirety of BC in order to play in that content. And Wrath. And Cata. And MoP. And WoD. And Legion. And BfA. And Shadowlands. And they'll need to keep gear sets from EACH expansion in order to play in that expansion's content.

You've actually managed to make the grind BIGGER, not smaller. Congratulations.



Then you've explained badly. You said EVERY expansion they get dropped back to level 50, and the expansion would still be level 60. Are you rescaling every single expansion down to 50 every time a new expansion comes out? If so, why? If not, then yes, you are in fact dropping people back 10 levels and making then re-earn it for that expansion.



No it isn't. You dropped them from level 60 to level 50. You literally said you were doing this. Is the expansion getting rescaled to level 50? If not, then you've dropped their power level, as the mobs are scaled relative to level 60, not 50. And if you rescale the expansion to level 50 at the end, why bother scaling it to 60 in the first place?



Which means until you replace them you are essentially gearless in new expansions... Do you not understand words? You are really struggling to keep up with your own explanation.



Again: Not what you said. You said gear from other expansions will not work in new expansion areas. Full stop. Currently, gear from any expansion works in any area, with the exception of activated or on hit gear, which stops working after a certain level, but still gives it's normal stat bonuses. What you said is a VERY big change from how things currently work.

If you're going to keep changing your explanation to make it work, then obviously your previous explanation was severely lacking.



To them, the game is endgame. Blizzard has made that entirely clear: The game is at endgame. At this point, they keep leveling as a shitty past system that they won't let go of. Oh wait, I'm sorry, to use the PR acceptable term: Because "new players" need to have the option to learn to play.

People CAN want to play endgame without wanting to play the week+ playtime long slog that is leveling. But that's moreso due to the MAJORLY underdeveloped leveling system in game. If they wanted to make leveling important they could - But that's not their perogative. All effort goes into endgame, that's why endgame is all that matters.



I didn't say it had NO solution. Look who's suddenly making things up now.

I said I see exactly why Blizzard doesn't try. And it's because every time they've attempted it, it's been complained about to no end. (Yes, including Shadowlands leveling. Notice how you didn't have to say anything at all for it to come up? You'd have to be ignorant to not see the complaint threads that still exist.) You coming up with a bunch of nonsense that doesn't solve problems, and only creates bigger ones, isn't going to change that.

And by the by: Changing gear into the level, just makes people beg for a gear boost eventually. Still doesn't solve the problem.

That was just a rough presentation of the idea. The gear can in fact work on old expansions. This is not a fixed idea, it's a developing one, which you claimed was not possible and actually it is. It was your lack of imagination that made you think so.

No, as i explained it's like 10 TBC levels and 10 Wrath levels. Your 50 vanilla levels do not change. Each expansion has it's own levels. Think of it as Guild Wars 2 masteries if you want.
Yes, obviously gear acquired from new expansions would re scale to 50 on the base game. You know, how in WoW (dunno if they reverted) but they were gonna have PvP gear be lower ilvl in pve and higher in PvP.

You are confusing the whole thing, i can't even follow what you are saying. I will try to explain this more clearly.

1-50 works as normal and you get your lvl 50 set.
1-10 TBC you come with your lvl50 gear and replace it with new one acquired here. TBC gear gets re scaled to level 50 when you abandon those zones. Yes, you should keep a gear set from the base game, or this gear can be put in a collection of some sort so you can re spawn it.
1-10 Wrath you come here with you TBC gear which is now re scaled to level 50 in Wrath. You get a new Wrath set. You can keep your TBC set, which works in TBC and the base game, until you get a full wrath one.
etc.

Honestly that is just a something i quickly put together. It can be developed more, it can be made better. It was just to tell you that it is indeed possible to have other systems, which you said impossible.
For example, taking the GW2 idea of masteries as inspirations, acquiring the masteries can release the power of your gear under the new zones and you can have a different mastery progression system that modifies your gear and upgrades it.

The sky is the limit. The current system is definitely not the only one or the best one. One just has to try. It is the best to monetize though, at least for now.
Also, stop thinking anyone or anything can please everyone online. That isn't a thing.

[Big Thanks]

What is that supposed to mean? They are already making money! They are selling you a package physical or digital. Depending on the game they are also selling you a sub.
Making the game intentionally worse in order to make money on top of the price you already paid for it is not good entertainment. It's scamming.

If i remove all water accessible to you and then sell you water at 100x the price, i guess you will think that is ok too?

Ok lets go step by step.

You want to play a MMO with:
1) Bug fixes
2) Maintenance
3) Support
4) Content updates

Is not fair for you to ask the game to not me monetized...ok? You understand that?
ok

The conversation about how to monetize a MMO and a cash shop is VERY open ended and open to debate...and a matter of opinion

In my opinion
The only thing that SHOULDNT be done by gaming companies is:

1) Pay to buy power
2) Create a mechanic in the game inconvenient ON PURPOSE to make money out of it

How can we know the gaming company made this mechanic "inconvenient on purpose to make money"?
We dont
Its a matter of opinion.
But most of the time is really obvious...

[crusadernero]

At this point everyone in this thread should just be prepared for character power and whatnot on the store within 1-2 years after release.

Its in a natural next step for these companies anyway. Its being done in other MMOs that are popular elsewhere than in the west. Little by little, we are getting there.

Couple of years people will debate on this very forum for/against buying player power on the store. "But you can just grind in the game and get it dude." "Dude just quit playing then if you dont like it. "It is how it is, nothing we can do."

[kenn9530]

What is that supposed to mean? They are already making money! They are selling you a package physical or digital. Depending on the game they are also selling you a sub.
Making the game intentionally worse in order to make money on top of the price you already paid for it is not good entertainment. It's scamming.

An MMO needs to make a constant stream of money otherwise it will not get updated and it will die, base game sales alone are not enough to keep a game alive for several years of constant updating and tuning.

Seems you lack understanding on why cash shops are actually essential if your game does not have a sub.

[lolmmofuture]

An MMO needs to make a constant stream of money otherwise it will not get updated and it will die, base game sales alone are not enough to keep a game alive for several years of constant updating and tuning.

Seems you lack understanding on why cash shops are actually essential if your game does not have a sub.

which is why subs are better than b2p games. If u truly want ur actual game to be the best, then i see no better model than a sub for an mmo (the form the sub takes can also vary, like it could be f2p + sub like runescape etc...)

[kenn9530]

which is why subs are better than b2p games. If u truly want ur actual game to be the best, then i see no better model than a sub for an mmo (the form the sub takes can also vary, like it could be f2p + sub like runescape etc...)

Thats subjective take a look a WoW with its severe lack of current content and that does everything to milk the community, so a sub model does not mean all that much, but most MMOs have at least a cash shop, and some either have an optional sub or not.

[crusadernero]

An MMO needs to make a constant stream of money otherwise it will not get updated and it will die, base game sales alone are not enough to keep a game alive for several years of constant updating and tuning.

Seems you lack understanding on why cash shops are actually essential if your game does not have a sub.

While thats true, we gotta remember this whole deal is about making ever more profit. ActiBlizz made record profits last year(s), but they will keep on finding new avenues to get more and more money.

One thing is to earn enough to create more and just as good or better content, its something different when its about maximizing profit every year.

There could also be a point to be made that even though ActiBlizz rakes in the big bucks every year with wow, the content hasnt really become better or bigger in scale.

[lolmmofuture]

Thats subjective take a look a WoW with its severe lack of current content and that does everything to milk the community, so a sub model does not mean all that much, but most MMOs have at least a cash shop, and some either have an optional sub or not.

yea i mean, i dont mean like every sub game is automatically better, i mean that if u were looking for the best possible model, it would be that. whether the game lives up to it or not is up to the company.

cause i mean think about it

how can you have a monetization model that does NOT have a shop, yet provides a stable income WHILST also being accebile and reachable.
i see no other alternative.

[kenn9530]

While thats true, we gotta remember this whole deal is about making ever more profit. ActiBlizz made record profits last year(s), but they will keep on finding new avenues to get more and more money.

One thing is to earn enough to create more and just as good or better content, its something different when its about maximizing profit every year.

There could also be a point to be made that even though ActiBlizz rakes in the big bucks every year with wow, the content hasnt really become better or bigger in scale.

More money means the game will get more updates and evolve, WoW has all but given up on delivering a better quality game and just gives the players all the same content just with a different paint job.

yea i mean, i dont mean like every sub game is automatically better, i mean that if u were looking for the best possible model, it would be that. whether the game lives up to it or not is up to the company.

cause i mean think about it

how can you have a monetization model that does NOT have a shop, yet provides a stable income WHILST also being accebile and reachable.
i see no other alternative.

Sub is not really the best model, you are then forced to pay if you want to play and then the game releases a cash shop anyway, if the game is not limited by having a lack of sub a cash shop is superior to a sub. B2P means more potential players.

[Ausr]

Thats subjective take a look a WoW with its severe lack of current content and that does everything to milk the community, so a sub model does not mean all that much, but most MMOs have at least a cash shop, and some either have an optional sub or not.

Dude, you defend the fuck out of Star Citizen. One of the biggest scams of gaming for the past couple of years. You have no moral high ground to talk about lack of content or any content of any game.

[kenn9530]

Dude, you defend the fuck out of Star Citizen. One of the biggest scams of gaming for the past couple of years. You have no moral high ground to talk about lack of content or any content of any game.

Calling something a scam when it clearly isnt just shows you have no intention of having any meaningful discussion, simple fact is WoW severely lacks content and its been getting developed for 20 years.

[PACOX]

yea i mean, i dont mean like every sub game is automatically better, i mean that if u were looking for the best possible model, it would be that. whether the game lives up to it or not is up to the company.

cause i mean think about it

how can you have a monetization model that does NOT have a shop, yet provides a stable income WHILST also being accebile and reachable.
i see no other alternative.

ESO and GW2? Actually don't know ESO's model in depth but GW2 is fine. Shadowlands and GW2 started their current cycle of count around the same time. GW2 has had numerous content drops while Shadowlands has had 0. One has paid content drops, you can't pay or play without a sub and they become irrelevant fast. The other offers free content drops for about 2-3 months then you have to pay ~$2 or a small amount of in-game gold to unlock it. It never becomes irrelevant.

Both games have things like mount skins and minis in their MTX shops. GW2 are significantly cheaper than WoWs and it's a game that relies on its MTX shop for revenue.

Im not arguing that one game is better than the other. I can assume we have different preferences, but the B2P model can and does work. There's really only 4 mainstream MMORPGs right now, two of them use the B2P model.


New World can absolutely work with a B2P model, hell half its dev team is from B2P games. If it doesn't work it's because they designed it poorly, not the model itself.

[craigw]

new world combat is atrocious. how it is even in an mmo boggles my mind. who thought it was a good idea. people along the way literally were like yeah lets go with that, players will love it. shits garbage.

[kenn9530]

new world combat is atrocious. how it is even in an mmo boggles my mind. who thought it was a good idea. people along the way literally were like yeah lets go with that, players will love it. shits garbage.

Its more enjoyable than WoWs mindless combat system so its personal choice if you like it or not.