Shadowlands: Rapidly Climbing the Ladder in Popularity

[Sharein]

Shadowlands, while the content itself is not -that- bad, will go down as the worst expansion to date. The content drought is really killing and it's quite impressive to lose the interest of nearly the entire playerbase after six months. I am not buying into this covid excuse. They just screwed up. Again.

[Radaney]

This thread didn't age well.

[Toybox]

As someone pointed out to me earlier in this thread/in another thread, Blizzard were impacted by the wildfires last year as well as COVID. Still, as much as I sympathize with that, WoW is still competing for our time with countless other games, so if 9.1 isn't a home run then who knows...

The worst thing is I'm more excited for 9.2 than 9.1. Can't wait to get out of CN all the same.

[apelsinjuice]

shadowlands so far is the worst expansion in my opinion, so many boring chores, maw and torghast is the most boring dragged out zones/game modes I have ever seen, its like they want to make you mad, frustated and at the same time so bored. CN is ok but really started to drag after 5 months or so

[Soon-TM]

shadowlands so far is the worst expansion in my opinion, so many boring chores, maw and torghast is the most boring dragged out zones/game modes I have ever seen, its like they want to make you mad, frustated and at the same time so bored. CN is ok but really started to drag after 5 months or so

I share the thought about Maw and Choreghast, but I find CN to be a really mediocre raid. I was fine with NWC all along 8.3, even if it was nothing to write home about, but CN... bleh. Raid gear being ugly (YMMV ofc) as sin doesn't help either.

[LordVargK]

i'm back in this thread! t&e just put up their "genuine defence of shadowlands" video, and it makes good points.
i maintain that shadowlands is totally fine, actually pretty good, and people have just played the game for too long. the launch was stellar and then 3 months later, a bunch of people realized they've just played the same game for almost two decades. like, it isn't nearly as apocalyptically bad as bfa, it's totally fine. it is impossible to overstate how bad azerite armor was, how absolutely indifferent the players were towards warfronts and islands, and how un-engaging the setting was in bfa. where shadowlands' .1 patch aims at improving accessibility to the existing systems, which are fine and work, because players iterated on them with the devs for 8 months of alpha, bfa's .1 patch added another ring of azerite. idk, i can't see the argument for bfa as better by any means. shadowlands is adding another 40 renown levels because the renown progression works, not adding essences because azerite was a complete failure. shadowlands doesn't need the band-aids, the players have simply outgrown the game. and that's...fine. most of the folks i play with right now are not people who have played since launch, most of those friends are quitting, and that's good for them. the doomsaying is so tired. this player base simply isn't happy. if i get a modern wow expansion that allows me to raid log when i want, do alts when i want, or play my main for cosmetic progression when i want, i am super happy, as even though i loved legion, i was only able to raid log when my old team stopped doing mythic.

idk guys. i don't understand the people saying this is worse than bfa or the worst expansion ever. i just don't get it. i moreso don't understand why conduit energy is the hill to die on: it isn't good, there's no reason for it to be in the game, but is it the worst design choice ever made? of course not, azerite armor and garrisons literally exist.

I share your opinion. There's nothing good to say about BfA. The worst thing about SL is the leveling, everything after that is quite pleasant, if you don't play 24/7. Consume content at a moderate pace an SL is enjoyable, since you can do whatever you want.

[Toybox]

I share your opinion. There's nothing good to say about BfA. The worst thing about SL is the leveling, everything after that is quite pleasant, if you don't play 24/7. Consume content at a moderate pace an SL is enjoyable, since you can do whatever you want.

Or if you raidlog for 6.5 hours a week & have been done with the tier for a while as you stare down the longest wait for an x.1 patch in Warcraft history I'm with you on BfA being a lot worse than Shadowlands in terms of its systems, but at this point in BfA, if memory serves, the game would have had Uldir, CoS, and BoD. Hell at this point in Legion my guild was done with EN/ToV/Nighthold & prepping for ToS

Shadowlands itself was always an expansion with a lot of promise, but at some point, it has to deliver on that promise.

[kaminaris]

Shadowlands was never promising in the first place, unless you are type of person easily manipulated by marketing. The only redeeming feature was suppose to be torghast but that bubble bursted rather fast. Not only it was unrewarding, all that replayability promises turned out to be gigantic lie (gee who would have guessed ).

People said that couple months before SL release and it was exactly like that. 4 rather small, utterly uninteresting zones with nearly zero content (or rather, content longevity was non existent). Nobody counts Maw as zone anymore. That would be insult to other wow zones.

Main hub being probably 2nd worst to WoD "city" hubs. No new class.

It died way before content drought has even began. Funny enough, despite checking these forums I have no desire, or any sliver of thoughts of coming back.
Thrown away like disposable tissues - sub was canceled and SL is worst expansion that has ever been released so far. WoD was literally 10x better.

[arkanon]

i maintain that shadowlands is totally fine, actually pretty good, and people have just played the game for too long. the launch was stellar and then 3 months later, a bunch of people realized they've just played the same game for almost two decades. like, it isn't nearly as apocalyptically bad as bfa, it's totally fine.

So please explain why it happened specifically during SL? You make some very incorrect assumptions here, most notably that "everyone" has played since launch - this is obviously not true. Why is it that people who started in vanilla, tbc, wrath, cata, or any other expansion, playing the game fro 15 years, 5 years, 8 years, 12 years.....all suddenly realized they had played for too long during the same expansion, within a few weeks/months of each other?

[arkanon]

because tons of people were only buying shadowlands due to covid. wow subs went up during covid because people had nothing to do. they came back, did the game for a bit, then remembered they don't like it anymore. there wasn't a global pandemic during any other launch of wow, so i don't think i'm making any incorrect assumptions <3

Even this response is an assumption - everything you have said is conjecture and taking known data, and extrapolating out a result you want, without ANYTHING to support it. All assumptions.

[Toby451]

shadowlands so far is the worst expansion in my opinion, so many boring chores, maw and torghast is the most boring dragged out zones/game modes I have ever seen, its like they want to make you mad, frustated and at the same time so bored. CN is ok but really started to drag after 5 months or so

Interesting juxtaposition between the two of us. I keep seeing posts like this, claiming there are too many "chores" in the game and it leaves me confused to the point where I dont think you people are even actually playing the game. What chores are you people doing? Is there some large part of the game hidden that I never unlocked? I finished my Maw rep about 4 months ago and basically never go back. I finished running torghast for soul ash about the same time and now only run it to help out friends when they need a boost on fresh alts.






Where are all of these chores at that kills the game? I actually wouldn't mind having something to do again... please point me in the direction of these secret activities.

[MasterOfNone]

I share your opinion. There's nothing good to say about BfA. The worst thing about SL is the leveling, everything after that is quite pleasant, if you don't play 24/7. Consume content at a moderate pace an SL is enjoyable, since you can do whatever you want.

you are so much not playing this game to full potential if you think leveling is the problem......

[Toby451]

because tons of people were only buying shadowlands due to covid. wow subs went up during covid because people had nothing to do. they came back, did the game for a bit, then remembered they don't like it anymore. there wasn't a global pandemic during any other launch of wow, so i don't think i'm making any incorrect assumptions <3

So why does every other expansion always sell extremely well at launch? And what will your excuse be when the one after SL sells well again? And the one after that?



People always come back and play new expansions because Blizzard still makes BY FAR the best content in the MMO market. But there are simply way too many amazing games these days to just keep playing the same game year round. People come back, experience the new content, and move along until the new title update. Very few games have year round staying power and none of them are as old as WoW and they are all mostly e-sportys competitive titles.

[Couchpotato2013]

These past few years (since like WoD and then looking back at how poor mop launch was with too many people and golden lotus locks) and even with classic, I have come to be extremely distrustful of blizzard and expansion launches.

No one here can deny that the opening experience is very clearly crafted to trigger that honeymoon effect of sunshine and rainbows. And as for me, I go through the rituals like everyone else but the entire time hyper analyzing everything.

“How long will I be happy with this zone?”
“How many days/weeks out, am I going tolerate travel time anything less than the absolute shortest amount of time?”
“How will I feel with the grinding system a month, halfway through the expansion, etc?”
“Was the time spent on the visuals of the zone really worth it? They could have spent time on something else. Only so much joy/appreciation you can get from looking at X zone for Y amount of time.”
“When will people drop out of their placated, dopamine-high and devolve back into asocial automatons?”

That’s what goes through my head, and for SL it screamed very loud at launch, and whenever I saw any iteration of torghast before launch and the annoyance that I had to do it for the week.

And so I quit. Mid-expansion or at least by the second full raid is when I looked back and really have come to know that is when I like the game the most. Stupid oversights have been ironed out by the herd (well before the meme of legion onwards players being beta testers), and purposely inane hoops are removed. Hoops put in place as an arms race/red queen/content consumption treadmill speedup in order to prevent tip of the spear/content locusts from finishing things too quickly because they have time and money well beyond 3 SDs of the population.

For the time I had available back then for mop/wod:
-I liked 5.1 and then throne of thunder;
-I liked the a bit after 6.1 and doing a bit of BRF and enjoying the more fleshed out things that should have been in at launch

Later on when I had real time:
Legion
-I liked legion starting with nighthold onwards. Early flying cause they dropped alot of requirements made doing alts amazing around april 2017 and all throughout the summer until 7.3
Then with 7.3 and alts doing mage tower was a fun thing I could try to do if my week to week schedule matched up and I was roughly ready. Got 31/36. Felt good.

Bfa
-I noped out of uldir in early oct cause ret/prot sucked and guild just could not learn mythrax. I let the game push me to completion with warfronts and emissaries. All the while feeling bored/empty. Wasn’t until 8.2 with rank 4 essence grind (ended out with 10/11 for azeroth’s champion title, and 24/28 (would have been 25, but gave CLF r4 to someone for their title) essences I earned and they felt great. Had the gold to boost for the title but it felt like cheating so I didn’t.

And I for SL I feel the same. Couldn’t care less for the fomo of rival/duelist cosmetics, ksm, or even aotc. I could easily buy a boost for all of them, but if I didn’t for Azeroth’s Champion (less than 1500 characters world wide), why would I do it now for things most people have? Game has annoyances from day one that make me feel like pushing an obvious boulder. I do not mind grinding I don’t want content designed to fight against me.

So I am doing tbcc. Been enjoying questing (not so much leveling, could care less for the number except to make it higher). And in fact even if 9.1 comes June 29, or July 13. I’ll be playing tbcc, cause I know the metaphorical stuff in the salad will be in at patch launch. Will do what I can position myself to quickly get going once hall of fame closes which is around when blizz finally removes the annoying barriers to enjoying playtime and sensible grinding.

[Villager720]

I’m kinda torn on how to feel. Sadly, I do think you have to factor in content pacing along with quality and quantity when determining how to perceive an expansion.
Yes, SLs doesn’t have multiple shitshow systems like BfA and overall the content was more ‘engaging’ than Warfronts and Islands. But, if I just excluded what made BfA feel like trash, that wouldn’t be an objective perspective.
And the content drought in SLs feels like trash. So for that reason, SLs is quickly slipping toward the bottom in my rankings.
Which is sad, but truthfully you can say that about all bad expansions: “WoD would have been great if not for missing x,y,z”.

[Toybox]

I’m kinda torn on how to feel. Sadly, I do think you have to factor in content pacing along with quality and quantity when determining how to perceive an expansion.
Yes, SLs doesn’t have multiple shitshow systems like BfA and overall the content was more ‘engaging’ than Warfronts and Islands. But, if I just excluded what made BfA feel like trash, that wouldn’t be an objective perspective.
And the content drought in SLs feels like trash. So for that reason, SLs is quickly slipping toward the bottom in my rankings.
Which is sad, but truthfully you can say that about all bad expansions: “WoD would have been great if not for missing x,y,z”.

This is pretty much exactly where I stand. I rank BfA as the worst expansion ever, but that's because of the systems & all the busywork that cluttered that expansion up alongside a historical low for class design.

Shadowlands fixes the system shit, many specs have seen improvement, & overall it just feels like a more approachable, alt-friendly expansion, which is all fantastic... But now it needs content, & the upcoming content has to be exceptional to justify the unprecedented wait for it.

[Trumpcat]

People jumping over each other to mock the thread and the OP. This was posted in December 2020, Shadowlands was getting great reviews all over the place, it had brought in beautiful zones, had killed the worst RNG features of BfA, most specs felt alright (although overall class design is stuck 10 years in the past by default), the M+ had very tactical design, pride affix quite fun and no need of obligatory skips. The Maw was full of people, the Torghast lobby was full with people, my guild had 50 people signed to raid and multiple guild groups were running dungeons simultaneously...

But hey, we all knew 6 months ago that we are in for a massive content drought at the start of the expansion and that everything we had just seen will be all we'd have to do for the next over half an year, right? Did the favorite expansion of the smartasses mocking the OP for being excited in December 2020 had 6+ months worth of content on release? I'm sure farming motes of fire in TBC and rep farming in Wrath was the time of your life.

[ashblond]

People jumping over each other to mock the thread and the OP. This was posted in December 2020, Shadowlands was getting great reviews all over the place.

Check the 1st post on Page 7, when it was posted and who posted it.

It was never promising for some people from the start.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...pularity/page7

[Toybox]

Check the 1st post on Page 7, when it was posted and who posted it.

It was never promising for some people from the start.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...pularity/page7

I don't know, I think it's hard to say "I told you so" here because what 9.0 ended up being was something many people didn't predict - the longest x.0 patch in history. If Shadowlands had a raid/content release cycle similar in quality to that of Legion, we'd have had three raids by now alongside a new zone even.

If you'd asked me back in December 2020 if I thought Shadowlands would be doing good if the first content patch lasted for 9 months I'd have said absolutely not, but if it ended up similar to previous content release cyciles, I doubt we'd have seen such an exodus.

[Trumpcat]

Check the 1st post on Page 7, when it was posted and who posted it.

It was never promising for some people from the start.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...pularity/page7

As you say yourself in that post, it did seem as an unpopular opinion at the time. I agree with your reasons, but as I also posted above, we (the people who were excited for SL) didn't enter the expansion expecting all we saw at launch to be all we will be having for over half an year. I also doubt you knew we won't be getting anything for 6+ months.

Now in June 2021 you'd be hard pressed to find anyone excited about SL, at best the defenders are saying it's fine but lacks content. I myself am bored and disappointed, but I wouldn't go about mocking the OP for being excited about the expansion 6 months ago, like some are doing.

I don't know, I think it's hard to say "I told you so" here because what 9.0 ended up being was something many people didn't predict - the longest x.0 patch in history. If Shadowlands had a raid/content release cycle similar in quality to that of Legion, we'd have had three raids by now alongside a new zone even.

If you'd asked me back in December 2020 if I thought Shadowlands would be doing good if the first content patch lasted for 9 months I'd have said absolutely not, but if it ended up similar to previous content release cyciles, I doubt we'd have seen such an exodus.

Indeed. An "I told you so" in the context of this thread would work if someone said "all you see now, will be everything you will be having this expansion for over half an year".
Unfortunately at this point I don't think 9.1 is bringing anything substantial enough to revitalize the expansion back to the levels of the first three months, it lost momentum with the drought.