Should Everything stay the same???

[Jwelch900]

Class identity is one of the things Blizzard abandoned. Every class and spec having everything is one of the hallmarks of retail wow.

Like I was saying earlier, why does boomkin have an ability (wrath) that literally shouldn’t be used in any circumstance. That’s not identity that lazy balance and lack of innovation. It doesn’t break the idea of classic to fix obvious flaws. Hurricane can have 1 minute Cd, and that’s totally fine to limit the aoe potential as part of identity. BUT it’s on a 1 minute cd and the utility doesn’t make up for the fact that it deals 140 dmg a tick with 400 spell power while other classes double and triple that dmg on no cd.

It would be hard to argue that retail wow/MoP (I think is when they added the eclipse thing), didn’t have wildly better classes identity for boomkin at least.

And that links back to the whole start of the post,
I think It can be classic but better and that doesn’t mean it should be retail cause that shit isn’t good.

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TBC Classic is a free bonus you get for paying for the main game. It doesn't have to be perfect and it's not the point. It's for you to experience the old version of the game. The better, more updated and balanced version of the game is available and is called Shadowlands

I’d argue that the current iteration of the game isnt better or more balanced, but I think there are places where to class fantasy is better, and some places. where it’s worse.

Also for plenty of people (me included) that are subbing to play classic specifically it isn’t free. that is marketing ploy to justify doing 0 work on the game. I have no intention on playing retail, maybe when the last patch of the expansion is out and they fix a butt load of stuff, but for now/ the last 6 months my $14 is for classic.

I’m also not saying it has to be perfect, but it can/should be better… and it seems odd to me that people disagree with that. even though it is a fact that some things were originally unintentionally broken and the team is definitely capable of fixing those things now but doesn’t.

[Askyl]

Blizzard added a mechanical bull ride (p2w) right in front of the Mona Lisa though.

Yes, everyone who used the boost have a huge advantage against everyone else in the game now. P2W lol

You guys give My life meaning.

[Cæli]

no.change. vanilla was excellent, and tbc is shaping up to be even better
they shall merge all classic era realms though

[Ragnarohk]

The problem is just deciding which changes would be acceptable. You can poll it but... you know, people don’t really know what they want.

I believe they do this in Runescape and it works

[Jwelch900]

I wanna make sure everyone know that I’m not judging people that don’t want any changes, and that I really am having fun. But I think that wow went on its quality decent because they stopped listening to the community feedback.

The average player today is much smarter and understands what they want better then 15 years ago. So I think that blizzard should take advantage of that fact.

[Facefive]

But I feel like they should

I feel like they shouldnt. Does your opinion count more than mine? Do you represent the playerbase? I honestly don't understand why people still think their opinions matter... They simply don't.

[Jwelch900]

I feel like they shouldnt. Does your opinion count more than mine? Do you represent the playerbase? I honestly don't understand why people still think their opinions matter... They simply don't.

That is extremely constructive feedback, and I also love living in a world where you should drone about and take what ever falls in front of your face with a smile, Because everything is predetermined and nothing can be changed. I mean I can’t believe you used your precious time to express your own opinion as it clearly doesn’t matter as per your comment above.

Everyone in this thread is welcome to have an opinion. even if that doesn’t meld with mine or result in anything but a conversation, cause that would still be INFINITELY BETTER then your life philosophy that no ones opinion matters.

[Stardrift]

Once done with WOTLK classic, they should introduce classic+ servers and give us unfinished content from the three expansions.

Only then could they give us QOL changes.

[tomten]

They have access to some good solutions/tech and I feel like they should do some stuff different. NOT turn classic into retail. But there are things that retail does better and instead of just spitting out the exact same stuff, use what you learned in the last 15 years to do something better.

They already do that, its called retail and retail does exactly everything better than tbc.
You dont want to play tbc, you want to play retail with the nostalgia attached.

[Stardrift]

I’ve always been for small QoL changes, I think once you get past the nostalgia there’s a lot of design choices in early WoW that exist purely due to a lack of dev/design experience.

The problem is just deciding which changes would be acceptable. You can poll it but... you know, people don’t really know what they want.

Blizzard devs have come out to say even they don't know what kind of game they want to make.

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They already do that, its called retail and retail does exactly everything better than tbc.
You dont want to play tbc, you want to play retail with the nostalgia attached.

There are things TBC/classic can do better than retail, and things retail can to better than TBC/classic. People enjoy different things. Because you enjoy one over the other, doesn't mean everyone else does too.

As someone who was never around for TBC/classic, I can tell you I'm enjoying a lot of things I can't normally enjoy in retail. While also missing some things from retail.

[Fluxoz]

The initial launch of each version of classic should stay as it was, with minor tweaks at best. Its what people asked for, and people that didnt play it at the time now have a chance to experience it.

Once some time passes, and they do new fresh classic servers? I think you can open up a debate about it then.

[tomten]

As someone who was never around for TBC/classic, I can tell you I'm enjoying a lot of things I can't normally enjoy in retail. While also missing some things from retail.

What exactly, besides nostalgia, does classic/tbc do better? And if it does it better, why do you need changes?

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I would rather it be as close of an mirror version as possible. Some changes will undauntable make their way in and what can you really do about it at this point. So caring to much is a waste of time and energy. Some of the QoL stuff probably wouldn't be terrible. But once you just straight up start modifying a ton of specs and game design directions I don't think it is really TBC anymore. Of course if I had faith in them getting really good balance while maintaining the feeling from the past then I would say go for it. But after like 15 years of watching them stumble between balance disasters in every version of the game I really do not have that faith in them. Pretty much all I would see happening with major class changes would be some other things becoming OP as hell and then things that are OP as hell right now getting put into the dirt.

[Stardrift]

What exactly, besides nostalgia, does classic/tbc do better? And if it does it better, why do you need changes?

Depends on people's preferences. As we can clearly see.

Are you asking what I think? Or are you unsure of what you think and need to be told how to think? Or are you asked what others think? Because I can only answer for myself.

[arkanon]

What exactly, besides nostalgia, does classic/tbc do better? And if it does it better, why do you need changes?

Basically, you are asking the difference between Chess, and Speed Chess. At the core, tbc and sl are quite similar, but I think it comes down to one major difference - speed. Everything takes longer in TBC - leveling takes longer, gearing takes longer, travel takes longer. Add onto this the fact combat is quite a bit slower and more controlled, and overall, that's the main difference I feel.

One of the ways they have increased the difficulty in modern wow is by speeding EVERYTHING up, and quite significantly. This includes the time it takes to complete things being a lot shorter, travel being much faster, and everyone having access to everything much, much sooner, down to how combat works. In modern wow, at you have a much, MUCH smaller window to make a decision, and react to it - this has lead to an environment where players are theory crafting the shit out of the game even at lower difficulties, because they know they will only have 0.5s to react.

This is most noticeable in how the specs play, how fast everything is, how quickly you need to react to procs etc to keep a fluid and smooth "rotation". Another great example is pvp, TTK, and obviously M+ with its timer, which encourages chain pulling and mass AOE over careful and methodical play. I wont get into some pointless argument about which is "harder" because there is literally zero doubt that modern wow is dramatically more demanding than anything that has come before.

Now, what i WONT get drawn into a debate about is "which is better" because A) pretty sure that's a no-no around here, B) it is entirely subjective and C) Because the answer is obviously Retail. I kid! I KID!!!!!!!

There are OTHER differences, sure, no doubt about that, but in my opinion, the one common theme throughout many of the differences between the two is Speed.

Now, as for the "why does it need changes" question, thats actually VERY easy to answer - exactly the same reason someone would restomod a 1969 ford, keeping the core of the car original, but adding power steering and AC, modern brakes, using modern oil, a modern entertainment system, and modern bulbs in the headlights etc etc.

[tomten]

Depends on people's preferences. As we can clearly see.

Are you asking what I think? Or are you unsure of what you think and need to be told how to think? Or are you asked what others think? Because I can only answer for myself.

Its a forum? So its a public question, anyone who feels like answering or give their take on it, is free to do so.

[Prag]

What exactly, besides nostalgia, does classic/tbc do better? And if it does it better, why do you need changes?

Subjective for everyone but I thought it better balanced a grinding style that I enjoy. It’s tedious in the right places while affording obvious ease (compared to Classic) in others.

Slightly more linear questing with options.

Better talent trees and more abilities. I know we’re mostly the same specs, but I liked the tree and more commitment to a spec, relative to retail.

Mechanics are boring, though.

[tomten]

Now, as for the "why does it need changes" question, thats actually VERY easy to answer - exactly the same reason someone would restomod a 1969 ford, keeping the core of the car original, but adding power steering and AC, modern brakes, using modern oil, a modern entertainment system, and modern bulbs in the headlights etc etc.

Exactly my point, you want a modern car aka retail but you grew up thinking that ford 1969 was the bomb. Now you want a modern car with the look of an old car. But it will never be the same as driving it in original parts, the motor sound, the vibrations etc. Its purely for nostalgic and perhaps some aesthetics?

[arkanon]

Exactly my point, you want a modern car aka retail but you grew up thinking that ford 1969 was the bomb. Now you want a modern car with the look of an old car. But it will never be the same as driving it in original parts, the motor sound, the vibrations etc. Its purely for nostalgic and perhaps some aesthetics?

No, that is absolutely nothing like what I said. Read it again, you honestly have massively confused yourself. Put your narrative aside, and just read what was written, because it is not even remotely close to what you "quoted" in your reply.

The warning signs are glaring bright that you are desperately searching for a "gotcha!" moment, the main light shining bright on you editing out all of the information below, and quoting only one sentence instead:

Basically, you are asking the difference between Chess, and Speed Chess. At the core, tbc and sl are quite similar, but I think it comes down to one major difference - speed. Everything takes longer in TBC - leveling takes longer, gearing takes longer, travel takes longer. Add onto this the fact combat is quite a bit slower and more controlled, and overall, that's the main difference I feel.

One of the ways they have increased the difficulty in modern wow is by speeding EVERYTHING up, and quite significantly. This includes the time it takes to complete things being a lot shorter, travel being much faster, and everyone having access to everything much, much sooner, down to how combat works. In modern wow, at you have a much, MUCH smaller window to make a decision, and react to it - this has lead to an environment where players are theory crafting the shit out of the game even at lower difficulties, because they know they will only have 0.5s to react.

This is most noticeable in how the specs play, how fast everything is, how quickly you need to react to procs etc to keep a fluid and smooth "rotation". Another great example is pvp, TTK, and obviously M+ with its timer, which encourages chain pulling and mass AOE over careful and methodical play. I wont get into some pointless argument about which is "harder" because there is literally zero doubt that modern wow is dramatically more demanding than anything that has come before.

Now, what i WONT get drawn into a debate about is "which is better" because A) pretty sure that's a no-no around here, B) it is entirely subjective and C) Because the answer is obviously Retail. I kid! I KID!!!!!!!

There are OTHER differences, sure, no doubt about that, but in my opinion, the one common theme throughout many of the differences between the two is Speed.

[Unholyground]

If they do a classic plus all they need to do is a 10 level Paragon system that lets you put five skill per level into any skill you have including professions or specialization skill, so if you want to get defense capped as a non-tank you can do that, if you want to put more points into one of your specs to get a bigger talent tree for that spec you can do that too, maybe there's a legendary pieces you can craft but only if you put all of those points into leather working or blacksmithing etc. Just with that one idea it would keep it feeling classic and give every class/spec freedom that it needs