Windows 11 leaks online - first impressions

[Magical Mudcrab]

Because you can't change how you run nginx - via WSL. So you're either in cmd where cls command works, or in fucking bash, where cls doesn't work and only clear works. What?

I'm not sure what your criticism is here. Windows allows the use of the Command Prompt, Powershell, or Bash if you install it. The idea that the different terminals have different commands being a negative for Windows is strange, especially given that this is simply Windows providing you the ability to use these various terminals is a way Windows allows you to customize your experience.

[Alcsaar]

Wtf

Do not want. If I wanted a Mac I'd use one. The Mac UI is horrendous

[ldev]

I don't see how it's a "very valid criticism" at all. Command-line stuff exists in MacOS and Linux, same as Windows. The Windows GUI is more customizeable than MacOS' GUI.

What the fuck. Command line in macOS is literally macOS. Command line in Linux is literally Linux. Command line in Windows is literally either Windows or Linux. What the fuck.... There's a reason Microsoft put Linux inside Windows. A very valid and very good reason. Okay? Deal with it. When you'll deal with it - then understand that because of this reason, Windows went further down shizo OS hole.

I'm not sure what your criticism is here. Windows allows the use of the Command Prompt, Powershell, or Bash if you install it. The idea that the different terminals have different commands being a negative for Windows is strange, especially given that this is simply Windows providing you the ability to use these various terminals is a way Windows allows you to customize your experience.

My criticism: on macOS terminal is macOS. On Linux terminal is Linux. On Windows - terminal is either Windows, or Linux. Idea that having to mentally take note on which terminal you're working and switch between two completely different workflows is garbage is not strange, it's completely normal. And no, providing two is not "simple" or "good", it's shit design, when macOS and Linux provide one and everyone's happy. It's like a car providing two steering wheels and one day you can use left hand drive, and other day right hand drive. It's not okay, it's not good, it's shit, mate.

---

Anyways, demo - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh9643c2P6k

Looked pretty good, had a little PTSD when they touched the laptops screen, but overall - pretty cool. Except at the end:



Holy shit. It's 2021 and Microsoft still has no taste.

[Endus]

What the fuck. Command line in macOS is literally macOS. Command line in Linux is literally Linux. Command line in Windows is literally either Windows or Linux. What the fuck.... There's a reason Microsoft put Linux inside Windows. A very valid and very good reason. Okay? Deal with it. When you'll deal with it - then understand that because of this reason, Windows went further down shizo OS hole.

Windows isn't based on Linux. That's not the huge revelation you think it is. And if you're working in development or the like where you'd need to know both, you're still gonna need to know both, and likely additional programming languages on top of that, because that's the kind of work you're talking about.

There is no "schizo" here. WSL is a subsystem that aids software development, it isn't part of the baseline operating system. It's not even automatically included in Windows 10, because most Windows users won't ever have a use for it.

[VinceVega]

I really only care about performance in my OS anymore... there is nothing new they can add but fluff.

I REALLY hope i can make my menu be left aligned again then i am happy as long as it doesn't get worse performance wise.

MS should have learned that ALL of there users gotton used to the way the menu works by now and should keep it.
Like the new cancer control panel or "settings" as it is called now. Fuck i hate that. Unnecesarry complicated to find stuff... even getting a PC into a domain is more difficult than before. Why? Really.. why? They decided to hide everything behind words no one can know what really is hiding behind it and the use some weird blue text on the right really small where you have to click to get to the setting you really need...

tldr: Gimme back the old Control Panel (with updated look for all i care) and let me align the menu to the left.

[ldev]

Windows isn't based on Linux. That's not the huge revelation you think it is. And if you're working in development or the like where you'd need to know both, you're still gonna need to know both, and likely additional programming languages on top of that, because that's the kind of work you're talking about.

There is no "schizo" here. WSL is a subsystem that aids software development, it isn't part of the baseline operating system. It's not even automatically included in Windows 10, because most Windows users won't ever have a use for it.

There is shizo here. On macOS there isn't schizo, because I don't need other OS. On Linux there isn't shizo, because I don't need other OS. On Windows - we have WSL. It is quite required. Even biggest Windows fanboys admitted it - Microsoft themselves. Shizo. Like, literally. But I'm done repeating myself. And next time also include your rebuttals for Win95 UI mixed with Win8 UI, that also adds to the shizzle.

And don't show me your lack of IT knowledge with "WSL is not required it's optional lelele" - it's required. Microsoft wouldn't go out of their way to undermine Windows by shipping basically competitor's OS and then spending thousands of hours improving fs performance and what not if it wasn't required....... Like, for reals? They included once perceived biggest threat just because they are nice?

[Endus]

There is shizo here. On macOS there isn't schizo, because I don't need other OS. On Linux there isn't shizo, because I don't need other OS. On Windows - we have WSL. It is quite required. Even biggest Windows fanboys admitted it - Microsoft themselves. Shizo. Like, literally. But I'm done repeating myself. And next time also include your rebuttals for Win95 UI mixed with Win8 UI, that also adds to the shizzle.

And don't show me your lack of IT knowledge with "WSL is not required it's optional lelele" - it's required. Microsoft wouldn't go out of their way to undermine Windows by shipping basically competitor's OS and then spending thousands of hours improving fs performance and what not if it wasn't required....... Like, for reals? They included once perceived biggest threat just because they are nice?

You're talking exclusively about software development and web servers.

You realize PCs are used for a hell of a lot more than that, right? There's basically no reason whatsoever that an architecture firm would need WSL, for instance.

[jellmoo]

There is shizo here. On macOS there isn't schizo, because I don't need other OS. On Linux there isn't shizo, because I don't need other OS. On Windows - we have WSL. It is quite required. Even biggest Windows fanboys admitted it - Microsoft themselves. Shizo. Like, literally. But I'm done repeating myself. And next time also include your rebuttals for Win95 UI mixed with Win8 UI, that also adds to the shizzle.

And don't show me your lack of IT knowledge with "WSL is not required it's optional lelele" - it's required. Microsoft wouldn't go out of their way to undermine Windows by shipping basically competitor's OS and then spending thousands of hours improving fs performance and what not if it wasn't required....... Like, for reals? They included once perceived biggest threat just because they are nice?

I'm about the furthest thing from a Windows fanboy there is. Whenever I use Windows it's pretty begrudgingly.

That aside... Why is WSL required? Which subset of Windows users actually requires WSL?

[ldev]

native android support is nice to see

M1 supports iPad/iPhone apps, honestly, it's... pretty useless.

[Thelxi]

I don't want this stop.

[ldev]

I'm about the furthest thing from a Windows fanboy there is. Whenever I use Windows it's pretty begrudgingly.

That aside... Why is WSL required? Which subset of Windows users actually requires WSL?

Because without WSL Windows would witter and wilt, that is why it is required. I will not record a two hour talk to go into details, this month I've reached my quota of talking about Windows. Especially when fucking Windows logo looks like this, what the fuck.

Quick form if you want to convert forum text to like what windows logo looks - https://codepen.io/ldevv/pen/WNpVjXg

- - - Updated - - -

I don't see why it's useless, it seems like a user friendly feature that prevents the user from having to install trashy third party apps like bluestacks

Because phones and tablets are not PCs... Unless you use your Surface as an iPad - it sucks complete balls. Either company has PC app, which is so much better, or they have... well, an app that was explicitly designed for touch and phone/tablet form factors on top with phone/tablet limitations and flows. And despite what Apple is saying - tablets are not PCs.

[BananaHandsB]

Menu bar in middle of bottom row fits layout very well on MacOS because:
- There is nothing on left/right of it.
- Though technically it does take an entire row, it is transparent outside of buttons, making it look like it is small.

Windows implementation is ugly. If you stick to keeping junk in bottom right corner, keep everything else in bottom left corner, don't center it. It looks messy.

I'm sure there will be customization options to make it like that.

[Paetolus]

Not a fan of the whole centered taskbar thing they're going for, but it's probably changeable. Also not a fan of the start menu itself, but hey, open-shell is a thing and someone will undoubtedly update it for windows 11. Haven't been a fan of the start menu since 8. Android app support seems like a neat feature, although I'm unsure how often I'll be using it.

[C20]

So, the leaks were true. Honestly, I wasn't impressed with the presentation. The presenter (Panos Panay), seemed to be going for the casually distracted vibe. For example, at one point, they showed the 'new' Windows app store, and he just chirped out with "Oh, Disney+, I love to see that". What in the actual curved-windows center-aligned start button has that got to do with anything? I'm far from a fan of Apple, but their presentations, despite being full of so much marketing BS that it makes me puke, are more professional. None of the people presenting through their shows take the casual approach. They go into it standing upright, speaking in a professional manner, with no remarks or quips like "Oh man, I love Disney".

At a few points, he used the words "You need" - for example, "quick access to the documents you need". Mate, I'm primarily a developer and gamer. I almost never need access to Word docs. I think he also said something along the lines of "All kept in the cloud, so you can access it where you need". I am absolutely fine with having a dedicated folder for OneDrive that is pinned inside a file explorer that is easily accessible. I specifically do not want those things cluttering up the start menu.

And on the subject of the start menu, get that shit out of my sight. I've only just managed to get the Start Menu in W10 configured in a way I like. No 'rich tiles', 4 columns of tile-sized shortcuts to apps I commonly use, no interactive shit in a place it doesn't belong.

"The team has put a lot of passion into this". I'm sure they have... but it doesn't change the fact that people see it as just a reskin, that's going to require TPM 2.0 support, is going to take away quick access to the more of the advanced parts of Windows in the name of modern aesthetic (taking it away from people who give zero fucks about the aesthetics of device manager, GP editor, or the network management tools).

The aesthetics they've chosen to roll with are nonsense. OK, I'll let rounded corners pass, that's something that works... but promoting the centralization of the start button, and not making it clear that you can choose to move it to the left again. Changing the start menu and trying to make it less about category and more about common access. Making a point that Windows has a lock screen that greets you. Promoting glass-effects that have existed since Vista, and still exist in W10. That's NOT playing to their strengths. That's dancing around with pointless shit that doesn't make a positive difference to the core experience of Windows.

Even the developer enhancements aren't that impressive. Opening up the app store to any sort of app? OK, great... thanks I guess. Making PWA's have right-click context menus from the Windows taskbar, and being able to install PWA's? Oh, my god, seriously. I might be working in that field, but this is literally not something I care about. I don't ever use the right-click context menu to access functionality inside an application, because I need context of where I am in the application when I trigger it.

Essentially, nothing in W11 has any positive benefit for me, and so I have no reason to update to it. It certainly didn't warrant MS spending time putting together an AR/green screened video presentation.

And then the "ugly stuff" on the top: sorry, but i prefer to have one bar with everything and my top free. Just because holy apple does it does not make it a good design.

I'm glad someone else said this. Mac feels like a shitty MDI application, where the context of the menu bar changes depending on the active 'document' (or application window in this case). If you regularly multitask or have multiple windows open, having visible menu bars on each application window is significantly better for UX and definitely better for accessibility.

Their taskbar / dock is a fucking nightmare too. I don't know how common my mindset is, but I prefer to have labels alongside icons, and I absolutely fucking despise the grouping of icons. It's fine for folders, but it blows chunks for independent applications. If I've got a VSCode window that's somewhere at the back of the screen, I don't want to have to be tapping an icon, and then trying to choose the correct window from a list - I just want to be able to select it with a single click. There's a strong mental break when your brain has to search through a list, and this is even more disruptive when you've also got to remember which icon to look for.

If I wanna know what song is playing on Spotify, I don't want to be having to switch to it, or install another app or widget - I want to just glance at a common location and see the title.

Then there's the mentality that everything should be backgrounded. If I close an app, I want it to be closed. Out of memory. Gone away. Not using resources. Instead, Mac decides "Fuck you, it's staying in the background unless you explicitly kill it. Enjoy your dock icon distraction you piece of shit".

[Magical Mudcrab]

My criticism: on macOS terminal is macOS. On Linux terminal is Linux. On Windows - terminal is either Windows, or Linux. Idea that having to mentally take note on which terminal you're working and switch between two completely different workflows is garbage is not strange, it's completely normal. And no, providing two is not "simple" or "good", it's shit design, when macOS and Linux provide one and everyone's happy. It's like a car providing two steering wheels and one day you can use left hand drive, and other day right hand drive. It's not okay, it's not good, it's shit, mate.

That's not a criticism of Windows though, that's a criticism of modular software. Windows comes preloaded with the baseline CMD functionality and Powershell, which is important. Powershell provides the ability to perform automation and use scripts from a Windows shell and while splitting them into two different utilities seems counterintuitive anyone who understands HCI knows this isn't the case. Users should be provided tools for their specific skill level, so individuals who do not need more advanced functions can continue to use CMD while more advanced users can progress to using Powershell when applicable. Other shells, such as Bash, are not installed by default and the user must make an intentional effort to do so. In fact, this is significantly more user friendly than not having the option available as it allows non-Windows users to use Windows more easily. It should also be noted that operating systems like MacOS and Linux allow additional shells, such as Powershell, to be installed. This means that your argument is widely applicable to every single OS.

[jellmoo]

Because without WSL Windows would witter and wilt, that is why it is required. I will not record a two hour talk to go into details, this month I've reached my quota of talking about Windows. Especially when fucking Windows logo looks like this, what the fuck.

But required by who and for what? Out of everyone I know using Windows 10, I'm literally the only one that uses WSL and only a few even know what it is. It's just kinda weird to call something 'required' when the overwhelming majority of the population using Windows 10 don't even know what it is (much less use it).

[Kagthul]

Windows doesn't stack icons into the taskbar by default, where MacOS does.

Err... wat? Certainly doesn't do that by default on my Mac. Any window i put in the dock, is a separate icon.

The taskbar in Windows can be set to auto-hide.

So can the Dock.

Windows has way more options for locating the taskbar.

One more is "way" more? Only place you cant put it on MacOS is the top. (At least i dont think you can but ive never tried).

The taskbar is hidden if you full-screen any application in Windows.

So is the Dock. So.. wut?

I get that you prefer MacOS. But the things you're pointing to aren't marks in MacOS' favor.

Woooooooooossshhhhhhh

[exochaft]

I'm curious how much telemetry stuff I'm going to have turn off again after upgrading. One wish list item for Windows 11 would be to not treat Warning events as passable and "it's okay, just ignore it"... especially on fresh installs. I got a whole laundry list of warnings (and errors) that I can't clear, no matter how much registry tweaking and system manipulations I do. While most probably don't have a huge impact on performance, it's still a really bad and lazy practice to embrace.

[Orby]

I was watching a video on youtube while ago. Its mostly identical to W10... Damn i hate that start menu.

What i'm really looking is trying to understand the load of this OS on the system, i'm running a really old rig here.

I am just nostalgic for the older start menu's pre win10 at this point lol

[Endus]

Woooooooooossshhhhhhh

You seem to be ignoring that I was arguing against MacOS' supposed superiority of options, not claiming any uniqueness for Windows.