Sanctum of Domination Raid Finale - Chains of Domination Cinematic

[PaladinBash]

Lol genocide was okay, betraying everyone who followed her and believed in her was okay, using the Horde was okay (k this one I'll grant her lol), all the murders and deceit and backstabbing and willing to kill everyone for the Jailer was just fine but the second her ego is questioned by him saying "hurr durr you work for me, person I told to do lots of bad things who did them gleefully and never questioned them for a second", that's a bridge too far. What a pathetic 'redemption' arc because it's not even redemption at all, it's just egotism. Even the shallow ridiculous nonsense of Kerrigan's was better than this and it was shit.

[Saltysquidoon]

She believed she was working with. She had never done anything completely against her will, and when he demonstrated how he would demand service from everyone (when she looked at Anduin) she went against him.

Ah, so she's not an idiot just a hypocrite. Seeing as she's been sending him souls to be enslaved since before bfa apparently.

Now now…any demonstration of forethought and a plot is not tolerated as everyone knows Blizzard is full of idiots with a 2nd grade writing process.

You realise the can of worms this opens right? The Arthas we took on in wrath wasn't the real arthas, hell basically every scourge general we ever fought and killed wasn't the 'real' one. Literally, armies of people the players have cut down were all innocent good boys.
What about player DKs are they just 'not real' versions of themselves.
Not to mention this basically removes all agency and potential for character development from anyone Arthas or KT (or potentially all undead) raised.

[Redcrow]

This is the first time I have made a comment in three years just to say how bad this writing is.

[neik]

The real hidden narrative behind the redemption story is to brainwash "you, the player," so that you can forgive blizzard at the same time.

[javierdsv]

Now? Now she decides it's the time to realise her mistakes?! That this was the same guy that controlled the Lich king? Right at the finish line? At this point just go for broke. What good is it to stop now?

It was her plan all along. She knew he would give her soul back, and opposing him would guarantee she was left behind, so we could get intel from her and stop him anyway, still having her soul back. So she actually won.

[Lollis]

It was her plan all along. She knew he would give her soul back, and opposing him would guarantee she was left behind, so we could get intel from her and stop him anyway, still having her soul back. So she actually won.

Do we actually know the full extent of what souls do in the WoW universe? If her goal really was to get her soul back, other than the presumed change that it would allow for her afterlife with regards to being a 'complete soul' do we know if the soul changes stuff psychologically? Because we have no real idea what it is going to happen to her mentally if for example a soul confers guilt.

[Cavox]

Remember when 2 years ago people were worried Sylvanas will get a redemption arc? Seems like #1 Sylvanas fanboy, Mr Steve "My Queen" Danuser just couldn't help himself after all.
She a good girl. She dindu nuffin' wrong. Thank GOD for Sylvanas Windrunner.

[Indigenously Abled]

Does the idea that somebody isn't immediately hating the same thing you do bother you so much?

The inverse is true as well. The age of discourse is dead; long-live the age of immediate outrage.

[luciano]

If you've seen Oceans 13, Sylvanas is Reuben (Elliot Gould) and the bad guy is Willy Bank (Pacino.)

That didn't turn out so well for Willy.

[Eapoe]

Ah, so she's not an idiot just a hypocrite. Seeing as she's been sending him souls to be enslaved since before bfa apparently.


You realise the can of worms this opens right? The Arthas we took on in wrath wasn't the real arthas, hell basically every scourge general we ever fought and killed wasn't the 'real' one. Literally, armies of people the players have cut down were all innocent good boys.
What about player DKs are they just 'not real' versions of themselves.
Not to mention this basically removes all agency and potential for character development from anyone Arthas or KT (or potentially all undead) raised.

How is she an idiot? She partnered up with someone who showed he was imprisoned, who didn’t want to be bound by the chains of death, and who was stating that together they could break the current system and rewrite one that is fair. The first 2 striking close to her own background and fear.
As to your 2nd point, this is easily solved by stating not everyone is affected the same and don’t always lose part of their soul.
Some people may have their souls in tact, others may not. There’s also been other media that just because you don’t have a soul doesn’t mean you are inherently evil. It just means you have no remorse or empathy. Almost like how DKs don’t mind reviving the corpses of the dead to serve them, or how the Forsaken are viewed by other races yet still fight to help keep the other races alive. I’m not saying DKs and Forsaken have no souls, but it’s not out of the realm of possibility and also gives players more RP options if they choose; but, I am saying they can be considered similar and used as examples given certain context.
In other media you have characters like Spike, from Buffy, who still fought along side the Scooby Gang before getting his soul back; or Sam, from Supernatural, who had no soul for a while but still continued hunting monsters with others.
As to your other point about armies of the undead being cut down being the good guys. During Arthas reign as the Lich King, that’s absolutely correct. That is one of the biggest points to his character. He raised corpses of mindless undead to serve him and be his slaves. The ones that broke away and got their free will back are the Forsaken, and after that the Ebon Blade Death Knights. That doesn’t mean everyone was good in life before being raised to serve in death.
The bottom line is, there’s speculation as to why Uther’s soul was severed the way it was, and now with Sylvanas. It’s possible these 2 are the exceptions to the rule, as well as maybe more we have yet to meet, or ever will meet. The point is, it hasn’t been explored fully and there’s no precedent set that everyone killed by Frostmourne has there soul spilt apart. Just that so far there are only 2 outliers.

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Remember when 2 years ago people were worried Sylvanas will get a redemption arc? Seems like #1 Sylvanas fanboy, Mr Steve "My Queen" Danuser just couldn't help himself after all.
She a good girl. She dindu nuffin' wrong. Thank GOD for Sylvanas Windrunner.

When has it ever been shown that she did nothing wrong? In her own eyes she has been justified and doesn’t believe she did anything wrong.
Has it ever been shown that the rest of Azeroth agrees with her? Pretty sure she’s been the villain for awhile now. We literally fight her to attempt to stop her from what she’s doing.

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I still believe the writing and general story of this expansion leaves a lot to be desired, but I appreciate you both adding a bit more context to the cinematic.

Like I’ve posted before, I’ve never said Blizzard is top tier writing, but it’s also not as dreadfully awful as others make it out to be.

[Kumorii]

The real hidden narrative behind the redemption story is to brainwash "you, the player," so that you can forgive blizzard at the same time.

Really? Do people actually work like this?... Scary.

[Saltysquidoon]

How is she an idiot? She partnered up with someone who showed he was imprisoned, who didn’t want to be bound by the chains of death, and who was stating that together they could break the current system and rewrite one that is fair. The first 2 striking close to her own background and fear.

This argument only makes sense if sylvanas has been walking around for the entire duration of the events of shadowlands with her eyes literally closed (what with the jailer's entire MO being using enslaved souls to serve him). Actually, it doesn't even then because the whole point of the Anduin arc was an anaemic attempt to show the seed of doubt being placed in her mind.

Further, it's not just or even primarily what happened that's the issue it's how it was executed. Goth emo waifu has been consistently portrayed as a 5d chess playing omegabrain who's deceived and outfoxed everyone to achieve her goals. You're telling me she hasn't even conceptualised the jailer's sudden but inevitable betrayal until her 'sons of Martha' moment?

The bottom line is, there’s speculation as to why Uther’s soul was severed the way it was, and now with Sylvanas. It’s possible these 2 are the exceptions to the rule, as well as maybe more we have yet to meet, or ever will meet. The point is, it hasn’t been explored fully and there’s no precedent set that everyone killed by Frostmourne has there soul spilt apart. Just that so far there are only 2 outliers.

Come on dude it's because they were killed by frostmourne it's basically stated directly in the Bastion afterlives short, simply saying 'we just don't know' is a meaningless defence because blizzard intentionally rarely directly confirms things because ambiguity makes it easier to pivot without being accused of retconning things or dropping story threads.

Further, even if uther and sylvanas are 'exceptions' that is just creating an intentionally inconsistent plot contrivance explicitly to retroactively remove agency from a character, all of those things are from chapter 2 of bad writing techniques 101.

[Wangming]

because genn needs to stay back on azeroth to take care of the forces invading there, and also to keep the alliance together while 2 of their leaders have been kidnapped, and one ran away on their own accord.

Turalyon can take care of that to let Genn hunt down the thot who is single handedly repsonsible for every bad thing that happened to him since the Catacylsm.

[MrMatticus]

ok so: speculation time
hes off to Azeroth (most probably)
next patch (dunno if last in SL) or 1 after it will be about Dragonblight, Red Dragonflight and other stuff
N'zoth is still alive (we end combat at 2%. not when hes DEAD)
next exp= Dragon Isles and "5 torches to light our path" (5 dragonflights)

N'zoth is dead until Blizz decides to bring him back for some reason. We blew him up with the Heart of Azeroth.

[Lei]

The reason why this cinematic sucks imo is because the well animated facial gestures from before are nowhere to be found here. Sylvanas just has a constant resting bitch face. She doesn't look surprised when the jailer says the new reality forging plan of his. She just frowns, like a sulky child hearing it's spinach for dinner. The same is true for the Tyrande cinematic when she hears nathanos is dead. The range of her motions is lacking so much, she has no "coverage" in the cinematic. She is slow, her attempt to shot the jailer looks like a grandma's attempt to grab a bow.

[Rexosaurus]

Turalyon can take care of that to let Genn hunt down the thot who is single handedly repsonsible for every bad thing that happened to him since the Catacylsm.

Nah, then they'd have to think of a reason why Genn can't bring himself to kill Sylvanas. It was easier to just put him in the same dark closet that they put the Vindicaar during BfA.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

That didn't take long to be unlisted from YouTube search.

[bullseyed]

Now? Now she decides it's the time to realise her mistakes?! That this was the same guy that controlled the Lich king? Right at the finish line? At this point just go for broke. What good is it to stop now?

No one was controlling the Lich King, that was part of his deal.

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Is there really a partnership when you're doing the bidding of an all-powerful being that rules the realm of death akin to a god? I don't know man. She served him up Teldrassil, started a whole war and turned Anduin. Sounds like we're serving.

Just like how you're doing the bidding of big tech corporations by posting your thoughts on this forum?

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I would really like for you to explain how Bolvar taking the Helm was a betrayal,

The mission was to kill the Lich King, not create a new Lich King who might be nicer for some time.

People gave up their lives for the mission of killing the Lich King, and were betrayed when he wasn't killed.

how "the other races" placed Bolvar on the throne,

Was Sylvanas present and her opinion considered in the decision? If you're failing to comprehend this sort of thing... that's not a good sign.

and how the reasons for Bolvar taking the Helm were contrived.

Some guy declared "there must always be a Lich King" because he made it all up on the spot (likely being controlled by the helm of domination just by holding it/being nearby). So stab him too, then kill off the Lich King.

Later it was retconned that there were "too many scourge" and the entire world would be overrun... which is completely ridiculous, especially given they were all present defending Arthas.

[tehdef]

Holy crap, the amount of 12-year old downvoting the hard work of NORMAL FOLKS is crazy.

I hate you guys that do this so much. The ones who downvote a video like that, you all made me hate the job. I had to ignore you fuckers and try to find the fun in what I made, because you made me feel so awful for it all the time.

I can't imagine how these people feel now that WoW has even more toxic hate.

[bullseyed]

so extremely narrow planning that ends up being correct which borders on being omnipotent... got it... seriously. if the jailer could do ALL of that perfectly, why did he ever lose?

Not sure how you handle day to day life but... the current plan is always the plan that worked out to this point. The failed plans are adjusted out.

Like, for example, the Lich King/Arthas is likely one of 20 or 30 across many worlds, none of which are covered in the World of Warcraft story.

Just like how any dead from any planet go to Shadowlands, but we don't see any races we're not familiar with already because story and gameplay limits.

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Why? Necromancy is a common trope in fantasy worlds. Undead also.

The problem is when you explore that what should never be explored. Like time travel. Or land of the dead. I mean, the fucking shadowlands have ecosystems! Animals! Plants! Those animals can murder you! Where the hell did they came from?! Are the lions of bastion some sort of souls or native species? If native then were Bastion Bastion before the blue angels came? Are they invading species? You can die in shadowlands, in the literall place where you go AFTER you die.

They've been pretty clear with the books and charts and whatnot. There are 6 fundamental powers/forces. Life, Death. Void, Light. Order, Chaos/Disorder.

None are good or evil, none are right or wrong, none are better or worse. They just are.

That's partly why the "fOr AzErOtH" stuff is so mega cringe. Fuck azeroth. If the titan egg is corrupted by the old gods, blow that shit up and go find another planet. Who the hell is dumb enough to care?

Most the playable characters are children of the old gods. The result of the "curse of flesh" on Azeroth. And yet "old gods bad" for some reason? The old gods are literally your great-grandparents. Maybe letting the void take over would be good. We have no idea.

Death wants to merge the death realm with another realm? Good, maybe? The void realm merged with the life realm created trolls and elves and dwarves. Maybe we'll get some kickass new races from death joining in.

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And there is no reason why those souls should have gone to the maw, which is also a really really simple concept, since everything was working as intended back then.

Citation needed.

Sylvanas going to the Maw when she jumped off ICC in WotLK proves it was broken back then.