The only thing worse & funnier than the end raid cutscene:

[justandulas]

You do make it sound like the remaining races of the Horde loves genocide. I'm all for people supporting what little Garrosh stands for as a character; all the power too you. But when making an argument like this; at least try to stick to the actual lore. There is reason why Garrosh and the "Horde" he shambled together was made up of Orcs and Goblins for the most part; because Orcs due to story yes; sort of has "war in their blood" at this point. And Goblins can legit be bought, "Time is money" - But do not try to make it sound like the Taurens, Darkspear, Blood Elfs or Pandaren would like to join a Horde which would essentially be built upon the foundation of "We will conquer it all" - The Forsaken? Maybe give or take what Blizzard would have had Sylvanas do had they not gone down the rabbit hole they currently have dug themselves into, but yeah. The Horde was not forced to betray Garrosh; Garrosh just displayed his true nature as a one-note war machine which was interested in little more than conquest and as a result: most other members of the Horde turned against him - Nothing was forced; it all happened due to how poorly written he was of a character.

Garrosh didn’t fail the horde, the horde failed garrosh

On the verge of total horde victory, we had races being written to basically leave over sympathizers towards the alliance. During a war. A war the horde was literally about to win if not for the infighting

Garrosh did nothing wrong, the horde failed him. He was a true warchief, a warchief worthy of even the great WC2 horde… and instead, thrall infected the others with that pacifist crap in a WAR

[Knight Meta]

Garrosh didn’t fail the horde, the horde failed garrosh

On the verge of total horde victory, we had races being written to basically leave over sympathizers towards the alliance. During a war. A war the horde was literally about to win if not for the infighting

Garrosh did nothing wrong, the horde failed him. He was a true warchief, a warchief worthy of even the great WC2 horde… and instead, thrall infected the others with that pacifist crap in a WAR

So I am going to assume that this is not a troll post. And even if so; whatever I love doing this away - I'll grab the bait.

I would like for you as I have asked many others to point out where on Azeroth this "Total victory" was? It was Garrosh and his extremism and lust for war that lead the Darkspear to depart from Orgrimmar (But not depart from the Horde) after which Garrosh sendt a Kor'kron assassin after him. All the real horde wanted was to thwart the efforts of the Zandalari at the time; Garrosh was the one hungry for infighting and blood as clearly; the somewhat "Joint" efforts of the Alliance and Horde to push back the Thunder King and his Zandalari left a bad taste in his mouth.

After the attempted assassination which had no reasoning other than "Im hungry for blood, the trolls must die for not wanting to do geocide and leaving Origrimmar" - The other Horde members simply said "Enough is enough, you can't just try to kill Vol'jin out of spite Garrosh" to which the reply basically was "Lol yes I can also I smacked around Anduin and have corrupted the Vale of Eternal blossom because clearly I need an old gods power to make my genocide happen as you weaklings don't want war"

In no way, under any circumstance was Garrosh on "The verge of total horde victory" - He made a fool out of himself for wanting nothing but blood and war; and he paid the price for it. He was at best a moronic Warchief and a halfassed tactician who got defeated due to his hubris being to much for him.

[Thage]

Garrosh reaction is exactly on purpose. It's about pointing out the wrong behavior of the Shadowlands.
He was sent to Revendreth to be purged from his sins, but this can't work because his Pride (remember MoP?) defines him entirely.
So he'll never change, no matter how many multiverses you visit, Garrosh will always act the same. Just see how he's been enrolled as a Lightborne in WoD timeline, he joined team LightSlayers.

Not entirely true. In one questline, IIRC the mag'har unlock questline, the bronze dragons mention there are several timelines where Garrosh ended up a hero, and in one he turned out to be the greatest hero of the Horde's history. We just happened to lose the dice roll and got "hypernationalistic douchebag" Garrosh.

[StationaryHawk]

I'm still to this day trying to understand people like you - Just because a character "sticks to his guns" does not mean that said character is well written. Garrosh was little to no more than a warmongering character with anger issue caused by daddy issues. His entire character can be summed up with "Me love Horde, dad made horde great, dad sullied Horde by drinking demon blood, me eternally angry now because dad brought shame on Horde, I will show you all a true Horde"

This is incorrect. Garrosh was only ashamed of Grommash before learning of how he had defeated Mannoroth and saved the orcs.

Garrosh didn’t fail the horde, the horde failed garrosh

On the verge of total horde victory, we had races being written to basically leave over sympathizers towards the alliance. During a war. A war the horde was literally about to win if not for the infighting

Garrosh did nothing wrong, the horde failed him. He was a true warchief, a warchief worthy of even the great WC2 horde… and instead, thrall infected the others with that pacifist crap in a WAR

I think Landfall does a pretty good job of explaining why the Horde's leadership was dissatisfied with Garrosh. It came down to mistreatment of the Horde's non-orc members and a mentality of the ends justifying the means that the other leaders disagreed with. It's not even the first time the Horde has changed leadership over a disagreement in tactics.

[Aleksej89]

Wow story department is a cesspool.

[tehdef]

Wow story department is a cesspool.

So is your attitude. At least they provide something of value.

[Ivarr]

A battle of life and death shouldn’t have one person crippled to the point of useless to give the other party a better chance. Asking a caster to not use their abilities in a fight with their life on the line is utterly idiotic. Do warriors expect people to just stand still and let them cleave away?

Well, cheating didn't work out for Gul'dan in the Warcraft movie.

[Accendor]

Garrosh is the closest to a real
Warchief WoW has ever had. Sylvanas was serving another master, thrall turned them into a collection of alliance sympathizers.

To be fair, Thrall turned them into a collection of alliance sympathizers for 2 reasons:

1. Because everything else turned out VERY BADLY in the past
2. Because its honestly the most logical and best thing to do to minimize further casualties for the horde

You may not like it, but its simply what a responsible leader should do.

[Knight Meta]

This is incorrect. Garrosh was only ashamed of Grommash before learning of how he had defeated Mannoroth and saved the orcs.

No longer ashamed? Sure. But anger clearly still is there - I know that Garrosh is not AS well represented in the written lore / lore which is not displayed in-game as some characters is; but trying to say that he did not clearly display a sense of anger due to his fathers actions even after his sacrifice is just straight up ignoring lore. I mean ActiBlizz didn't exactly do "teen novel style" writing with him so it's not like they explicitly wrote how he felt - But trying to say he was absolved of any and all negative feelings which he harbored towards the actions of his father; and that they are not even viable candidates for how he ended up becoming as a person is just ignoring the forest for the trees.

[bullseyed]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evGkiiUac2M

Now, I know, I know, even if it is a representative sample, the thumbs up and down ratio of the cinematic alone are still too crude to infer why people largely disliked the cinematic. But it does seem that Blizzard did something (or several things) that many people didn't want them to do.

12k people who are so bad at the game that they can't kill the boss on normal and watched it on youtube aren't an opinion representative of anything.

The vast majority of the people voting there likely don't even have active WoW subs.

- - - Updated - - -

I loved that, after all it means we don't have to deal with orc hitler ever again, he and his whiny bitch ass are dead for good. That is probably the only good thing about the whole patch.

Anything to distract from your worship of an Aryan, blonde haired, blue eyed, godking fascist, right?

Orcs and undead have fought back against attempted genocide by the Aryans, and that's OK as long as they stay in their stick-huts in the desert continent, right?

- - - Updated - - -

I don't understand entirely what you're trying to say.

I just don't get your perspective.

He's correctly stating that Blizzard could produce a shot-for-shot Oscar winning flick and the same people would still post "lol blizz sucks, bad writing lolz, boomer story!"

If you engage with these people at all they quickly offer than they haven't had an active WoW sub in 5+ years, they just come here every day to troll the forums here, since they're unmoderated.

- - - Updated - - -

Nah. Star War's Fans are just older. But I'll say this if you think that series was good I wouldn't trust you around small children or sharp objects.

You were right this thread would be largely a circle jerk of the complainers even if it was good. But that's about it.

He didn't say it was good, nor did he refer to a "series". And two decades would go back to 2001, so it would only cover Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith.

[Gurahk]

No he went out like a semi-chad, that's because he remained true to his ideals (however flawed they might be) until the very end, doing what he genuinely thought was right. Meanwhile Sylvanas was brainwashed by a Zoomer talking to her for 5 minutes.

I say "semi-chad" because he's an orc and thus he'll never be a true badass.

An orc child is more badass than any elf.

[bullseyed]

I saw the mini cinematic today, and it looks so poorly done, that it looks "fan-made". I know its from Blizzard, but the quality of it, is below BFA standards.
Why is Blizzard not investing in the game?, It looks like a game made by amateurs writers.

Is this the new WoW that we are going to get from now on?

It looks like a game made by amateur writers? How do you look at sounds, exactly?

[Eapoe]

Is the glorious ridiculousness which was Garrosh and his absolutely ham-fisted yet finalized ending, for real. This has to be the bottom of the barrel and how blind people are about it amazes me.

He did not put Teldrassil on fire; Sure. But he did slaughter masses of people in his life - The death tally caused by his interaction alone during the WoD section of the game can surely hold somewhat of a candle to Sylvanas putting the torch to the great tree, and here he goes out - Saying he would do it all again while screaming For The Horde. His Horde that is... Which by all means would have been the most pathetic Horde ever. I miss when people actually were being ironic when saying "Garrosh did nothing wrong" - Dude went out like a chump, not a chad and I loved every single moment of it.

But for real I would like to know what goes trough the heads of the ones in charge of the Warcraft story over at ActiBlizz. Surely they knew the community would get a kick from what now obviously seems to be Sylvanas getting a redemption arc. And yes there is by all means good money in that because; much like this thread - things like this sparks conversation. But there is this one side of me just that don't want to believe that ActiBlizz is going all this just because "Controversy = Traction = More money" There is still something holding on somewhere in me that wants to think that "Surely this will all amount to something similar to their past writing" <- Which by no means was GREAT, but it was better than what we got now.

What do you all think? Is the WoW story just a rudderless ship which is being written to simply push obvious buttons of a community in order to scrape out every single coin that can be snagged? Or does someone think that ActiBlizz at any point will turn things on it's head for a better change?

To summarize from the other posts I’ve already answered this on:
Other than a bad animation moment (the jump) and Garrosh’s cheesy “ooh” look at the weapon, I enjoyed it.
It’s nice seeing a character not be retconned into a misunderstood antihero or getting a redemption arc. He went out on his terms, regretting nothing he did and proud he did what he did. Attempted to turn the Horde back into a strong, conquering faction that still followed the old codes of honor and strength.
At the end, he was still himself, and it was refreshing to see.
(Bear in mind I am not condoning what he did or agreeing with it)

[KainneAbsolute]

Considering that Garrosh was tortured, and the only thing that kept him going forward was to strike down his torturer...I think his reaction is in character.

[guisadop]

do you think he should have acted completely different now than he did when he was the main villain?

his cutscene was, at least, coherent.
RIP Garrosh

[bullseyed]

To be fair, Thrall turned them into a collection of alliance sympathizers for 2 reasons:

1. Because everything else turned out VERY BADLY in the past
2. Because its honestly the most logical and best thing to do to minimize further casualties for the horde

You may not like it, but its simply what a responsible leader should do.

The best thing for the Horde to do is smash the Alliance until they are too weak to keep trying to genocide the Horde off the planet.

That's always been the WoW story: Alliance trying to exterminate the Horde races off the planet vs the Horde trying to push the Alliance back far enough to be left alone.

[Neuroticaine]

I find the WoW end-game Lore since TBC to be cringe and uninteresting. The last time an end-game story touched me was Illidan's personal love issues.
The Lich King end-game was something I knew I had to be 12 to enjoy.

The entirety of Warcraft's lore has always been pretty cringe if you're looking for some kind of serious fantasy story. It boggles my mind that there are so many that think it used to be "good" - especially those that seem to think that Arthas and Illidan were somehow the pinnacles of writing. It's ridiculous and always has been ridiculous, but that's part of what makes it so fun.

[StationaryHawk]

No longer ashamed? Sure. But anger clearly still is there - I know that Garrosh is not AS well represented in the written lore / lore which is not displayed in-game as some characters is; but trying to say that he did not clearly display a sense of anger due to his fathers actions even after his sacrifice is just straight up ignoring lore. I mean ActiBlizz didn't exactly do "teen novel style" writing with him so it's not like they explicitly wrote how he felt - But trying to say he was absolved of any and all negative feelings which he harbored towards the actions of his father; and that they are not even viable candidates for how he ended up becoming as a person is just ignoring the forest for the trees.

Weird, I don't recall saying this.

Anyways, your insistence that I'm ignoring the lore hasn't convinced me. Garrosh glorified his father enough that he bore his tattoos, wielded his weapon, displayed his trophies, and only gained the confidence to lead after learning Grommash had overcome his own faults. There's no indication that he found Grommash solely (or even primarily) responsible for what Garrosh saw as the Horde's fall from glory, which is the actual source of his anger.

[Yarathir]

Well shit writing is shit even if you are tired of reading our posts about it.

Pretty much this. If nothing changes or improves, don't be surprised that the reactions don't change either.

[Knight Meta]

Weird, I don't recall saying this.

Anyways, your insistence that I'm ignoring the lore hasn't convinced me. Garrosh glorified his father enough that he bore his tattoos, wielded his weapon, displayed his trophies, and only gained the confidence to lead after learning Grommash had overcome his own faults. There's no indication that he found Grommash solely (or even primarily) responsible for what Garrosh saw as the Horde's fall from glory, which is the actual source of his anger.

Well rather I misunderstood it or you worded it poorly as your "This is incorrect. Garrosh was only ashamed of Grommash before learning of how he had defeated Mannoroth and saved the orcs." comment in regards to me saying why Garrosh essentially became "constantly aggressive" sure made it look like you were eliminating the possibility as the comment itself: Outright stating that I was wrong and with how Garrosh was "only ashamed" sure made it seem like anger was never brought up to consideration.

Also; I need not convince you in any way. Like why would I do that? Things are simply written on the wall and sure; despite that, people are free to like or dislike what they want - but one just can't ignore pieces of information to make an argument seem more valid - I'm just bringing said elements to light; yet under no circumstance do I belive it will ever change anyone's mind as really... Whenever does anyone change their mind about something online? Especially when they have already made it clear that their stance wont change even if they are given information which previously was simply not included / ignored.