Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[postman1782]

It appears that not everybody will kowtow to De Santis.

Florida School Official Willing to Face DeSantis' Financial Risks in Order to Require Masks

I saw that Biden is now backing the schools that want to implement masks and fund them somehow. Though, if they were to sue DeSantis, these Florida schools they would absolutely win, as funding schools is outlined in their constitution, and they cannot take that funding away. It violates Article 9 Section 4 of the Florida Constitution, per legal scholars.

https://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/educat...tes-in-schools

[Zantos]

Okay, you need to pay attention here, because now I'm just repeating everything more than once.

The entire argument is down to 1 key sentiment, Right Now. Remember when they said that about covid in general? Remember how they said it wouldn't get out of hand and could be containted? Bringing light to a variant such as this is not to be scuffed at. We need to take this seriously. We are in the middle of a multi year pandemic for crying out loud. One that has now produced not 1, but Multiple strains that are proving to be more easily spread and potentially resistant to vaccines. The entire multitude of the news articles are sources you should really consider stopping paying attention to. Anyone saying any of the more infectious, and potentially more vaccine resistant strains isn't a concern, is purposefully being dumb. If you don't want to repeat yourself, then don't. We have two major variants that we need to monitor before they get out of hand. As states are skyrocketing in cases and running out of ICU beds, we need to be safe and consider every strain that has taken ground seriously. As you pointed out, its already dominant in Peru. Doesn't matter if its rare in the US. Its got a breeding ground already.

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I really dislike such alarmist headlines: the say "could" be vaccine resistant, and "might" be resistant to vaccines.

It's not vaccine resistant enough to matter - they know that

No, its pretty much a general consensus that it is resistant, they are just unsure as to what extent. Its not alarmist. We are in a multi year long pandemic with literally zero signs of slowing down. Its not alarmist in any way at this point to bring attention to a variant that could literally make the vaccines moot and put us back at square one. When we have entire states running out of ICU beds, Again, its time to be alarmist. We are getting back to pre-vaccine levels. The last thing we need is another strain in the mix.

[Forogil]

The entire argument is down to 1 key sentiment, Right Now. Remember when they said that about covid in general? Remember how they said it wouldn't get out of hand and could be containted?

Who said that? I don't recall anyone with a clue saying that last year.

And I haven't been saying that - and I keep not saying it. Currently I'm not saying that it will not get out of hand in Australia, Viet-Nam, S. Korea, Japan, or China. Maybe it can be contained there - maybe not.
And the concern in those places is primarily the Delta-variant; https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/08/a...hnk/index.html

No, its pretty much a general consensus that it is resistant, they are just unsure as to what extent.

I just wrote that it's not vaccine resistant enough to matter, since it is losing ground even in vaccinated areas - compared to Delta.
Both of them appeared at about the same time - if it were spreading more it would have taken over; not be a distant second.

[Zantos]

Who said that? I don't recall anyone with a clue saying that last year.

And I haven't been saying that - and I keep not saying it. Currently I'm not saying that it will not get out of hand in Australia, Viet-Nam, S. Korea, Japan, or China. Maybe it can be contained there - maybe not.
And the concern in those places is primarily the Delta-variant; https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/08/a...hnk/index.html

Both of them appeared at about the same time - if it were spreading more it would have taken over; not be a distant second.

Distant second in the US. Main strain in peru, giving it enough of a chance to mutate further.

As to who said that? The CDC themselves said it. At the start. They said that "the immediate health risk low". Aka, the Right Now mindset that got us in this mess. That is why we can't ignore a strain like this that Is the majority of cases in at least Peru and is in multiple countries outside of that. Its got the makings to be just as bad.

The bottom line is, we have multiple strains of Covid now that could easily bring this to a major step back. One of them is doing so already in the US.

[Forogil]

Distant second in the US. Main strain in peru, giving it enough of a chance to mutate further.

Since it started in Peru; and Peru is a fairly small country. Delta started in India which is a much more populous country.

As to who said that? The CDC themselves said it. At the start. They said that "the immediate health risk low". Aka, the Right Now mindset that got us in this mess.

The link doesn't confirm that. That link is about what people thought the CDC could do and said - not what the CDC actually said.

What CDC said is important - did they say it wouldn't get out of hand, or that it might not get out of hand if precautions are taken?

There was a lot of statements from WHO with the latter message from early last year; and that also seems to have been the case for CDC - https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2...ebriefing.html . That makes sense, since if there's a chance that you can stop it you should take that chance, and not think "we're screwed; aaah! run for the hills!"; because then you basically guarantee that it will not be contained.

That's a difficult messaging - and CDC might have done better. And in general there were a number of things CDC could have done better, but it wouldn't almost certainly not have stopped the spread - since it's a pandemic so it's all over the world.

[PhaelixWW]

The entire argument is down to 1 key sentiment, Right Now. Remember when they said that about covid in general? Remember how they said it wouldn't get out of hand and could be containted?

Uh, no. Only idiots who tried to downplay the virus for political reasons said that shit. Regardless, those kinds of comments would only have possibly existed in the very early days of this pandemic. Which brings me to the next point...

Bringing light to a variant such as this is not to be scuffed at. We need to take this seriously. We are in the middle of a multi year pandemic for crying out loud. One that has now produced not 1, but Multiple strains that are proving to be more easily spread and potentially resistant to vaccines.

What you've completely failed to understand, despite the fact that I've now posted it multiple times, is the fact that lambda is not a new variant. It's been around as long as delta has, which means about 8-10 months. So when I say that it's a non-issue, it's not because I'm failing to take a new variant seriously, it's because the science has already been done to determine that it is such. That doesn't mean that we don't keep an eye on it, but we have ample evidence that it doesn't survive in competition with delta.

The entire multitude of the news articles are sources you should really consider stopping paying attention to. Anyone saying any of the more infectious, and potentially more vaccine resistant strains isn't a concern, is purposefully being dumb.

I mean, most of the words bolded in those quotes were from the very scientists whose job it is to study these variants. You're literally telling us to ignore the scientists in this pandemic.

Sorry, but no.

Also, the WHO are the ones who have labeled lambda as a variant of interest, not a variant of concern. So I guess you're calling the WHO a bunch of purposefully dumb people, huh?

If you don't want to repeat yourself, then don't. We have two major variants that we need to monitor before they get out of hand.

Again, I've literally shown you article after article, scientist after scientist saying that lambda has already had its chance to "get out of hand" and failed to successfully compete with delta. It's like you're telling us that we can't know which team is going to win a game... after the game has already been played.

Newsflash: lambda lost to delta.

As states are skyrocketing in cases and running out of ICU beds, we need to be safe and consider every strain that has taken ground seriously. As you pointed out, its already dominant in Peru. Doesn't matter if its rare in the US. Its got a breeding ground already.

Ah, so you just completely fail to grasp how viruses work. First, it was only dominant in Peru because delta wasn't present. Now that delta has gained a foothold in Peru, it will keep growing and push lambda completely out in a matter of a few months. That process is already further along in Chile.

The concept of a "breeding ground" doesn't really apply to a virus they way you're suggesting, because it's not inherently stronger the more people it has infected. Delta was at <1% in the US back in May and by the end of July had hit 93%. The same is happening now in Peru.

Its not alarmist in any way at this point to bring attention to a variant that could literally make the vaccines moot and put us back at square one.

Lambda will not "make the vaccines moot". Again, if you'd bother to read the words of the experts, you'd see that vaccines are holding up against lambda.

When we have entire states running out of ICU beds, Again, its time to be alarmist. We are getting back to pre-vaccine levels. The last thing we need is another strain in the mix.

And again, lambda has been around as long as delta. Since August-December of last year. It is not a new entity. It's already lost to delta in the US. Game over.

Lambda is non-issue right now.

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Distant second in the US. Main strain in peru, giving it enough of a chance to mutate further.

If it mutates further, it will no longer be lambda. Just like it wasn't lambda before it mutated into lambda. But it won't matter soon, because delta will take over for lambda in Peru in the next few months.

Then we'll just have to keep worrying about delta mutating into something even worse.

As to who said that? The CDC themselves said it. At the start. They said that "the immediate health risk low".

Oh, FFS. That was around a month past the initial outbreak in China. There were only 5 confirmed cases in the US. I don't think they'd actually even confirmed that the virus was airborne at that time. That was still a month and a half before the WHO even declared it a pandemic.

So yes, they had very little knowledge about the virus, compared to now, and they still had hope that it could be contained, especially considering that there were very, very few known cases.

The two situations are not even remotely analogous.

Aka, the Right Now mindset that got us in this mess. That is why we can't ignore a strain like this that Is the majority of cases in at least Peru and is in multiple countries outside of that. Its got the makings to be just as bad.

No, it really doesn't. You know how we know? Science and data.

And nobody is ignoring anything. Saying that something is not an issue is not saying that it should be ignored.

The bottom line is, we have multiple strains of Covid now that could easily bring this to a major step back. One of them is doing so already in the US.

And it has already fought lambda and won. You can keep ignoring that fact all you want; it doesn't change reality.

[Cthulhu 2020]

https://twitter.com/ThoughtsOfTony/s...21151674556417



Ohhh boyyyy

[Tuor]

Since it started in Peru; and Peru is a fairly small country. Delta started in India which is a much more populous country.

Well, Alpha started in the Uk, which compared to India, is a small country.

I can see the relation betwin a strain having a higher Rt and the fact that it spreads more faster. I don't see any relation betwin the vírus and the size of the country where it originated.

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Lambda just seems to have a lower Rt.

[Forogil]

Well, Alpha started in the Uk, which compared to India, is a small country.

I can see the relation betwin a strain having a higher Rt and the fact that it spreads more faster. I don't see any relation betwin the vírus and the size of the country where it originated.

Sorry, I didn't mean that, but that:

More populous countries will give higher risk of bad mutations; so India had B.1.617 and being more populous it generated both Kappa and Delta; and possibly more variants. But, you are right that, smaller countries can also get "lucky" - one of the Delta+ variants is called "Nepal variant" - I don't know if that is accurate; but it's always possible - it's just a higher risk with more population infected.

Thus it's more likely that a virulent strain starts in a more populous country - since the more cases we have the more mutations and higher risk that one is worse.

The variant will likely spread in the country where it started, so finding a variant from Peru being spread in Peru doesn't indicate much, but if it more virulent it will spread to a lot more countries; Delta did that - Lambda less so.

Lambda just seems to have a lower Rt.

And it doesn't seem significantly better than Delta of bypassing vaccinations.

[Crimson Spears]

https://twitter.com/ThoughtsOfTony/s...21151674556417



Ohhh boyyyy

I don't see the point. The vaccine seems to have a rather low rate of success and the rapid mutations have rendered it a moot point. Masks were never really seen as success where they? I know they are not rated high enough for smoke and the virus is many times smaller then that. I always thought they were just a thing to comfort people with the idea they could do something to protect themselves.

[Machismo]

I don't see the point. The vaccine seems to have a rather low rate of success and the rapid mutations have rendered it a moot point. Masks were never really seen as success where they? I know they are not rated high enough for smoke and the virus is many times smaller then that. I always thought they were just a thing to comfort people with the idea they could do something to protect themselves.

Do you have evidence to back up your numerous bullshit claims?

Vaccine success is rather high, the evidence has been in this thread for quite some time. The virus travels on droplets, so that narrative is also a lie.

[Ursus]

I don't see the point. The vaccine seems to have a rather low rate of success and the rapid mutations have rendered it a moot point. Masks were never really seen as success where they? I know they are not rated high enough for smoke and the virus is many times smaller then that. I always thought they were just a thing to comfort people with the idea they could do something to protect themselves.

Holy shit, Rand Paul is that you? So nice of you to grace us with your presence now that YouTube has banned you.

[caractacus]

Do you have evidence to back up your numerous bullshit claims?

Vaccine success is rather high, the evidence has been in this thread for quite some time. The virus travels on droplets, so that narrative is also a lie.

The evidence that I have seen suggests that the virus travels in droplets and in particles in the air so while the mask does stop the spittle that comes out when we cough and sneeze it doesn't prevent it circulating in the air.

[Machismo]

The evidence that I have seen suggests that the virus travels in droplets and in particles in the air so while the mask does stop the spittle that comes out when we cough and sneeze it doesn't prevent it circulating in the air.

Of course it does, I was simply calling out that other poster for his obvious lies.

I think most of us understand the science behind such things, but people like him seem intent on spreading lies and misinformation.

[Edge-]

The vaccine seems to have a rather low rate of success

This is a dangerous, baldface lie. Don't do this shit.

[Granyala]

This is a dangerous, baldface lie. Don't do this shit.

I wonder where that comes from. Today I had some anti vaxxer not only try to tell me that the mRNA vaccine "changes your genes" but also that Israels official numbers indicate that the vaccines do not work at all. Oo

[draynay]

This recent talk of the virus being too small for masks would be laughably ignorant if there weren't so many willfully stupid people around ready to grasp at whatever confirms their ignorant beliefs.

[Edge-]

Today I had some anti vaxxer not only try to tell me that the mRNA vaccine "changes your genes"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydr...onoxide_parody

Seeing this shit play out in real life is wild, there remains a gross misunderstanding of some fairly basic science with far too many folks.

[szechuan]

I wonder where that comes from. Today I had some anti vaxxer not only try to tell me that the mRNA vaccine "changes your genes" but also that Israels official numbers indicate that the vaccines do not work at all. Oo

https://www.businessinsider.com/merc...ination-2021-7


https://www.washingtonpost.com/inves...7ce_story.html

[draynay]

The evidence that I have seen suggests that the virus travels in droplets and in particles in the air so while the mask does stop the spittle that comes out when we cough and sneeze it doesn't prevent it circulating in the air.

That's a rather lengthy way of saying that masks do exactly what they're supposed to do.