Fate of Afghanistan, Taliban resurgence

[Theodarzna]

does that mean the US can do the same with all of North- and South- America? Since ya know, the entire continent is the Americas.

I am guessing you've never read a History book, I mean I get it, its not everyone's strong suite, but not only does America do that, it has since the earliest decades claimed a right to meddle, control, overthrow and reserve both continents as its personal domain since the start and likewise has overthrown and invaded nearly every single State on both continents.

Ask the Cubans about America's respect for National Sovereignty, or Venezuela, Belize, Mexico, Honduras, Columbia, Nicaragua, Brazil, Argentina, Chile ect ect.

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Except I never have. You'd be able to see this if you weren't such a China tankie.

Lol, you only know how to post insults and try and go off like that hoping to goad some reaction? Is that your game?

[Jastall]

Lol what? Tibet has at the very least been off and on part of a historical China, is linguistically connected to the Mandarin speaking Han, and you know, is right there and likewise even the Republic of China before claimed Tibet and was inevitably going to invade it.

The idea that the last 70 years of American activity is less bad than invading Tibet is patently insane.

Colonialism and attempted cultural obliteration is OK if the target is near enough your borders and you conquered it long enough ago, then? Is distance the primary moral factor here? So if America invaded Canada and tried to subdue us by force and erase our culture and history it would be fine since we're right there and speak the same language? But if they invade Afghanistan out of misplaced geopolitical thinking and try to justify it with the "spreading freedom and democracy" nonsense for the voters back home, than that's beyond the pale?

I don't see any consistency here. In terms of wanting to destroy the cultures it has power over, China's been way worse than the Americans in recent history. The Uyghurs are just the most blatant example.

@JohnBrown1917 The conversation wasn't purely in terms of disruptive actions towards foreign countries (where I definitely agree) but in how much the imperalistic country wishes to change/influence the cultures it has dominion over, at least that's how Theo framed it. The Americans venture forth to secure economical interests and out of geopolitical concerns. They don't give a fuck about the minutiae of local cultures and how to change them beyond lip service or symbolic actions. China's far more active on that front, especially the closer to their border the culture is.

[Shadowferal]

If I recall, China deliberately turned Tibet into a pestilential third world country...that China insists is just a part of China itself.

[unfilteredJW]

And you're only able to regurgitate the same US-centric drivel whenever people call you out. In your silly mind being anti-China = Pro-Bush neo-conservative. Anyone disagreeing with you is a warhawk US imperialist neo-conservative.

It's all they have to copy and paste off their husband's Facebook feed.

[JohnBrown1917]

If I recall, China deliberately turned Tibet into a pestilential third world country...that China insists is just a part of China itself.

As a feudal state, it already was one. Not that it justifies China.

[Theodarzna]

Wow it's almost as if I've said before in this thread that I'm against the US doing the same shit China does.


But hey, you're fine with China doing it. Keep it up.

Lol, so if you string along and ignore my entire point, sure. But getting back to my point before you started throwing a fit;

"China makes a good ally because what it wants and expects is less totalizing than America. If you are a country not wanting to have your society, culture and religious customs re-written by American NGO's, than China is a solid ally, they don't expect much other than tribute (Financial stuff) and mutual respect on a suite of spelled out topics such as Tibet, Taiwan" ect.

Now of-course you have gone wildly off topic and hurled insults to avoid that simple point and totally wandered off and then assigned me a new position to defend since you probably don't know enough about what you are talking about to even stay on topic.

That is easy to do, China, unlike the US, doesn't really give a rats ass how other countries operate or what their cultural values are. Only that the tribute flows and you don't screw with them.

The US on the other hand is gripped by a Messianic fervor, as well as a vast reserve army of downwardly mobile elite aspirants occupying the impenetrable matrix of NGO-spook-MIC graft machines that we have to dump somewhere. The US is acutely interested in micromanaging your society, remaking it, redesigning it, and in governing other people like Colonial provinces and in "Civilizing" them. China doesn't actually care about that noise.

This is ultimately why China makes for a good ally.

My claim:

China doesn't really want to rewrite countries religious customs, society, or culture. This is why say Iran prefers China still among other historical reasons. Even if America really was the uber-Paladin of Human Rights or other nonsense; Iran would have to choose, the "Ally" that would see Iran remade in its image, or the "ally" that expects tribute and obedience but doesn't seem interested in changing Iran culturally, religiously or in terms of society.

China is a solid choice as an ally as you are not having to absorb a massive amount of shadowy NGO's here to try and remake your entire country. Now if as a State you already love Neo-Liberalism and the Social Values of say the Bay Area of California's wealthier enclaves around Silicon Valley than obviously America is probably your team. But if you aren't hip to Open Markets and the Social Politics that comes with it, than China is your team. After all, they care more about Tribute and the KowTow than say "Civilizing the Natives" and being a Light unto the World and all that jazz.

You then lost you mind and have mostly focused on insults and goading this whole time since.

[Jastall]

As a feudal state, it already was one. Not that it justifies China.

Tibet certainly wasn't a beacon of modern enlightenment, quite the contrary even and too many people have a rosy view of the place due to the Dalai-Lama and other such factors, but it was still treated no better than Cortez's conquistadors treated the Aztecs and other natives. They barged in, conquered place, looted what they could, and then did their best to stamp out the local cultures in favor of theirs. That they had mixed success on that front and that the place was close to their borders does not matter in the slightest bit if you ask me, it's still rank colonialism.

[JohnBrown1917]

Tibet certainly wasn't a beacon of modern enlightenment, quite the contrary even and too many people have a rosy view of the place due to the Dalai-Lama and other such factors, but it was still treated no better than Cortez's conquistadors treated the Aztecs and other natives. They barged in, conquered place, looted what they could, and then did their best to stamp out the local cultures in favor of theirs. That they had mixed success on that front and that the place was close to their borders does not matter in the slightest bit if you ask me, it's still rank colonialism.

Yeah, and how exactly is that worse than the untolds amount of damage the US has done?

[Jastall]

Yeah, and how exactly is that worse than the untolds amount of damage the US has done?

I already said that in terms of disruption to the countries they set their sights on, America certainly wins that lamentable race. But as I understood the conversation, it was about enforcing cultural changes in particular, which America barely cares to ever do again beyond lip service. Political changes, of course, are another concern, they were all over that during the Cold War especially. I'm not defending their rap sheet overall, especially considering how utterly pointless many of their acts ended up being.

[Mihalik]

"China makes a good ally because what it wants and expects is less totalizing than America. If you are a country not wanting to have your society, culture and religious customs re-written by American NGO's, than China is a solid ally, they don't expect much other than tribute (Financial stuff) and mutual respect on a suite of spelled out topics such as Tibet, Taiwan" ect.

That's a whole lot of horseshit and drivel to say, China is not pushing "SJW" shit. It's nice to see how you're here paddling this horseshit about a week after Tucker Carlson.

China doesn't do "shadowy NGOs" it just forces you into binding contracts that essentially surrenders your infrastructure, transportation and foreign policy to China.

Also, what if your intrinsic national values include little things like not condoning ethnic cleansing? Funny how "respecting China" is just a byword for giving up free speech and a respect for human life, but that is totally not "changing a countries values".

It's truly amazing to watch how fascism goes full circle and goes full tankie in its raging boner for authoritarianism.

[Theodarzna]

Absolutely laughable.

I can't believe I haven't earned the respect of a bunch of snarky, MMO-C posters who are brand loyal to the Democratic Party despite not being Americans. If I was attempting to do so I probably would be deeply troubled by your words and actually start posting those Pelosi clap gif's or whatever it is you guys prefer. Alas I am not terribly interested in appeasing said cohort of Democratic Party fanboi's, Milchshake will surely make some posts that are more palatable to your tastes and agreeable to your fandom.

US doing the same shit China does.

Right, I am sure, as sure of that being your firmly held belief as you are sure that I am not a Trump supporter.

you're fine with China doing it.

If fine is a way of saying "I don't want to shoot people over global Empire games," than sure, yes.

And you're only able to regurgitate the same US-centric

Again, the to a fault brand loyal Democrat who is a *Checks Notes* "Leftist non-American" is calling me US-Centric for not viewing the American Empire as good, well I guess I'll take the compliment.

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That's a whole lot of horseshit and drivel to say, China is not pushing "SJW" shit. It's nice to see how you're here paddling this horseshit about a week after Tucker Carlson.

China doesn't do "shadowy NGOs" it just forces you into binding contracts that essentially surrenders your infrastructure, transportation and foreign policy to China.

Also, what if your intrinsic national values include little things like not condoning ethnic cleansing? Funny how "respecting China" is just a byword for giving up free speech and a respect for human life, but that is totally not "changing a countries values".

It's truly amazing to watch how fascism goes full circle and goes full tankie in its raging boner for authoritarianism.

I mean if you want to invade Iran and butcher its people to make sure Tehran has a Pride Parade that is an interesting world view.

[Theodarzna]

Do show where I said this.

I believe you as much as you believe I am not a Trump supporter.

I mean for a supposed Leftist you screech bloody murder at the minor nuance of "For some countries China is a less intrusive, demanding or arbitrary ally" like I just insulted your mother. I've never seen a "Leftist" spill their spaghetti over such a seemingly none controversial opinion.

Then again I suspect "Leftism" here might just mean "Subbed to Vaush on Twitch", Oh right "NOT AMERICAN" just happens to act identical to any American brand loyal Democrat and share the exact same worldview, outlook and takes.

[Theodarzna]

Not the same as in the post that kicked it off. Saying China doesn't give a shit how other countries operate or what their cultural values are is not a non-controversial opinion, it's also objectively wrong -- as we've seen time and time again the past couple of decades.

Surely you'd be able to conjure some kind of evidence that China is totally going to remake the world down to the foundations right? You know for a 'totes NOT-AMERICAN Leftist you were not even embarrassed to cite the straight up NPC. Foreign Policy Mag, State sponsored media and a Foreign Policy Think Tank all Western, all in English, Christ might as well just cite the NED and or a CIA report at this point. But yes, I eagerly await the NED funded Workers revolution you will surely be apart of.

Then again you unironically posted this gem:

"You're a joke Theo, everyone knows you are one. That's why you are consistently dog-piled on in every thread whenever you spout your uninformed conspiratorial opinions."

Imagine, both believing you are some Leftist whilst being essentially in lock to defend the US Foreign Policy regime, go to bat for it, and also unironically think telling someone "You aren't popular with a small clique of 12 posters you've never met who post on a World of Warcraft message board, not the main one, a side one" is a big own. I've never seen someone own themselves so prolifically.

But have fun defending the Left Wing of Capital and Langley I guess.

[Rozz]

Tone it down and stay on topic.

[Slirith]

Tone it down and stay on topic.

I mean if you punished folks for doing it, maybe it won't go off topic so much. Waiting for my incoming infraction.

[muto]

Actually that is incorrect. You just need to watch videos from people visiting Tibet and do that on both sides of border, not listen to Dalai Lama zealots. Dalai Lama and his elk were basically slave owners. Well... it was officially called "serfs", a cast system imported from India, but basically it was slavery. Commie China overthrew them, freed people, now they live without poverty or slavery. How dare they!

On Indian side people are living below poverty line with barely any education. On Chinese side they have infrastructure, education, good living conditions.

As for subjugation, which western puppets love to spread, they have education in native language and are keeping their traditions, which is way better than anything US have ever done. When was the last time there were education in Hawaiian language?

So what horrors have actually China did to Tibet? Chased away slave owners? Freed people? Kept local language and traditions? Built infrastructure and pulled Tibet from poverty? The horrors!

I haven’t looked into this at all, but I know China is trying to stamp out Uyghurs traditions, culture, and beliefs in determent camps they call “re-education camps”.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghurs

Also, the Panjshir Province is still holding off the Taliban apparently.

[omeomorfismo]

Who said anything about it being American or NATO waters? Did you fail your geography classes or are you just blinded in your tankie rage?
And hey, if the region merely sharing the same name as China makes it OK for them to harass and encroach on other sovereign nation's territorial borders, does that mean the US can do the same with all of North- and South- America? Since ya know, the entire continent is the Americas.
It's this kind of fucked up logic that is classic for you Theo. Absolute failure of a "gotcha" you muppet.

is that called doctrine monroe? xD

[Forogil]

Hmm...
Interesting news - reports that the Taliban might ban opium farming as promised have caused a large price increase.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/taliban...on-11630181316
However, many think it unlikely that the threat is real.
https://news.sky.com/story/afghanist...trade-12385423

Do you think they will actually stop the farming? Will that mean better supply of that delicious but pricey and saffron?

[Theodarzna]

Hmm...
Interesting news - reports that the Taliban might ban opium farming as promised have caused a large price increase.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/taliban...on-11630181316
However, many think it unlikely that the threat is real.
https://news.sky.com/story/afghanist...trade-12385423

Do you think they will actually stop the farming? Will that mean better supply of that delicious but pricey and saffron?

I was under the impression that the Taliban had been harsh on opium production and that is primarily why the opium lords were willing to ally with the United States. In 2000/2001 they had a very harsh prohibition on the stuff.

If I recall correctly it was Afghan opium lords we were bribing with Viagra so they could ummmm "Enjoy" young male slaves more.

[Breccia]

This is one of those morally grey situations.

The US drone struck a car loaded with suicide bombers, as verified by

Significant secondary explosions from the vehicle indicated the presence of a substantial amount of explosive material.

So at least a second attack on the airport has been prevented. Well, for now.

The bad news, and there is always bad news, is that the car was parked in a civilian area and...sigh...the "secondary explosions" in the car and/or the house killed multiple civilians, three of whom were children according to local officials who I will assume aren't 100% Taliban terrorists. And of course, that's going to get blamed on us, and quite frankly why not, we fired the missiles into the house.

I can't imagine being the one having to make that decision. The death count is lower this time. And I'm not going to second-guess with "well why not hit them on the road" or "why not send a strike team on foot" or anything. I don't have the tactical data. Neither do you.

Fewer people died this time, due to simple, direct action taken based on credible intelligence. This is Afghanistan, that technically counts as a win anymore. Oh, and I better not hear the rabid fanbase calling out Biden for doing this when (a) Trump did the same in Yemen only faster, and (b) you can't both blame Biden for a bomb at the airport and also for stopping a bomb from reaching the airport without getting into details.

At least the embassy is empty now.