has anyone else noticed the "ripcord" that blizz pulled?

[Pakheth]

Then you never really enjoyed the game. Probably not the case which the real case is that you've basically allowed yourself to get brainwashed like a sheep along with all the others spouting the same tired lines that XXXX random streamer said but they'll claim it's their own original thought. I have yet to find a single person able to back up the majority of the complaints about SL without resorting to unquantifiable and unarguable things like "unfun" that really aren't even in any sort of a narrative argument because *shocker* they weren't the ones who actually came to the conclusion and as such don't have the logical backing for it.

Oh I've always enjoyed wow, apart from a few hiccups like WoD and larger parts of BfA and Cata (see a pattern here?), but the current expansion, and BfA to some extent highlighted the issue I have with the current design of class gameplay and when the classes I play are not so fun(I can go into detail about this if you like) to play anymore it kinda bogs down the experience overall. The systems being kinda convoluted and made for obvious gatekeeping(the pattern repeating 3 times in a row) was kinda the cherry on top for me. I also skipped Korthia because right now I really don't need game content in a gloomy depressing place lest I wish to make my depression worse. So I rather wait for better times. I really hope the next major patch takes us to a new realm of the dead and not just the 5 we know. Wasted potential if they don't if you ask me.

[Aphrel]

It is, however, sensible given the cyclical nature of MMOs.

WoW is expecting another expansion once this one completes, and as with every expansion before it, all previous content is pushed into the "old content" umbrella, while the "new" expansion content becomes "current content." When things become "old content" they are forgotten about, and no more scaling is made in order to cover that "old content" - It's only made to cover the NEW content.

Go ahead - Make a raid of 40 people and try to do Molten Core on Retail WoW right now and see how well it goes. You will demolish the place. Hell, you can do so solo if you feel like it. The game plays MASSIVELY differently as "old content" than as "current content." This isn't just due to levels, either, you could take characters AT LEVEL who are IN Molten Core gear, and it will still play MASSIVELY differently. Classes, spells, gear, stat scaling - It all changes from expansion to expansion and patch to patch.

As such, experiencing things while they are "current content" is important in WoW in order to see what experience people intended. Some people go so far as to say experiencing things when they are the MOST current content, as in the most recent patch, is important. (And the same argument makes sense there too - Classes and raids often receive major changes each patch even within a current expansion. Clearing a raid when it first comes out, and clearing a raid at the end of an expansion's lifecycle, are two VERY differing experiences.) This then leads to even same expansion content getting reduced, in order to allow players who didn't start at patch 2, to catch up to patch 2 fast enough to be able to participate in patch 2.

Because if people had to do a six month grind in patch 1 content in order to get the stuff from patch 1, to even BEGIN to start patch 2, that would be HELL.

Your examples in no way address the issue of obnoxious game design in current expansions.

Im not arguing against the "fixes". Im arguing against making the systems intentionally bad to begin with.

All its gonna do is create a less enjoyable game.

- - - Updated - - -

Not what I was referring to either... I was referring to that things get easier to catch up to current content.
That does make sense and is common across most, if not all, games that have content continuously added.
So yes, it's normal.

Then if you like to the degree it happens is another matter, one I won't argue about due to the subjective nature of it.

huh, thats kinda random but ok.

meanwhile, the rest of the ppl in this thread are voicing opinions on covenants becoming swappable.

[Aphrel]

Here's the thing - one person's "annoying and inconvenient" is another person's "challenging and interesting." Just look at Vanilla, filled with things that modern players would find exceedingly "annoying and inconvenient" but a lot of people still consider it the peak of WoW.

BTW it isn't good to keep playing a game if you feel like you are suffering. Either keep away from the parts that require you to participate with such arduous and difficult mechanics or avoid the game altogether until Blizz have made it easy enough for you to enjoy.

Yes, very challenging and interesting to pick the best choice for pve raiding "my meaningful choice" to be good in pve raiding and at a disadvantage in pvp aswell as at a disadvantage when playing another spec. Then a coupe of months later blizz decided to do a tuning pass and all of a sudden my choice is now meaningless because its no longer the best choice for that content. What an amazing system indeed.

Gotta love the old, "oh you have a negative opinion about a feature in a game? Why don't you quit" and then followed by a dubious claim that im the only person who think the covenant system is bad.
Have you been living under a rock and my post is the first one you see criticizing covenants?

Not sure why vanilla was brought up but i enjoyed that game plenty, progress one made was permanent and not taken away on whims by devs, respecs was easy and no gear or powersystem were locked to specific specs.
The content on engaged with one could do at ones own pace without having timegated barriers stopping you.

- - - Updated - - -

It literally does. The point is to make the content last early, and then be easy to get through quickly later.

My point is literally that. That's what the game has always done, purposefully, in order to create a game that you play. The cyclical nature of the game directly feeds into that, because everyone has to be "caught up" to current content.

They can't be if they're still stuck on step 1 of the 8 step expansion process. So they have to streamline it once it's no longer current.

This doesnt make any sence.

In what way does the covenant system LAST LONGER by NOT being swappable?!

If anything its the opposite, swappable covenants means a player can engage with all four of them = 4x the content and 4x the buildings to build, 4x the xmogs and mounts to farm.
And add to that, swappable covenants would make the game better, because them not being swappable is a stupidly designed system.

This is literally the opposite of your point.

And what does catchup has to do with covenants becoming swappable?!
In what universe have i complained about catchup mechanics?!
Im complaining about the mechanics being shitty and bad to begin with.

[Kumorii]

huh, thats kinda random but ok.

meanwhile, the rest of the ppl in this thread are voicing opinions on covenants becoming swappable.

Not sure what is random at all tbh... I said it's normal that older things opens up when new content arrives in a game where content get continuously added...
You were the one commenting on my quote at the start... Where I said this make sense.
Then you applied it to you not liking what they do, which is fine. Doesn't change the fact that it makes sense and/or is normal to make catch up easier...

To drive the point home even further. Even if these changes were in from the start... you can bet on that it would still be made easier as time goes by and more content is added.

This philosophy is NORMAL.

[Osmeric]

It is, however, sensible given the cyclical nature of MMOs.

It's sensible until enough players don't engage with it at all, and either don't resub or just leave immediately.

[confety]

I see no ripcord being pulled, i changed covenants once for every alt i have and i could do that without doing anything, because the first time is free, and we had only one big covenant balance patch.

Renown still get reset to 0

The day renown is a shadowland wide thing instead of covenant, which makes no sense in gameplay or lore perspective (oh yes you get renown with venthyr for doing world quest in bastion but you dont get it with the kyrians(¿?)) then i will think they pulled the ripcord. But it makes sense in player metric perspective right.

Also the alter soul ash/anima trading,i would prefer torghast box talents , and the extra anima covenant improvements were also account wide instead of tradable.
Cosmetics and systems to get gear that has some talent like visions or torghast make sense to be character wide.

[kiramon]

Buzz-phrases are stupid.

[Pendragon]

1. Create shitty systems that players hate but make MAU look good and ignore feedback for over a year.
2. Fix shitty systems way later.
3. Players celebrate and praise Blizzard.

I said the exact same thing as above in BFA.

Asmongold was right. There are some people who aren't gamers, they're just WoW players. They play WoW and nothing else, and never will play anything else.

You're not the only one who has said this. It's how Blizzard operates. The people still playing deserve to be treated like shit by blizzard at this point.

[El Gucaragua]

yes, we're finally getting covenant swapping without a huge hassle being involved. that said, why is it behind a time gate? the blizz post said you need a high renown to unlock this. even with the catch up systems, why time gate this? they are basically trying to say they were wrong but don't regret being childish about the feedback in the process. why can't we just get things we actually asked for?

some examples:

valor points: nobody wanted a weekly cap upgrade system. we wanted a catch up gear vendor. congrats, you made it even more annoying to get gear from m+ because now you need to get that lucky drop AND not spend your very limited pool of upgrade points.

covenant ripcord: timegated.

korthia: just more grind and grind without actual interesting things to do.

tier sets: remember when we were promised they were coming in 9.1? instead, we got domination sockets and tier sets were pushed back to 9.2.

JUST GIVE US THESE SIMPLE THINGS ALREADY!

Tbf I don't recall them ever promising tier sets in 9.1, just later in the expansion. I could be 100% wrong though. In terms of the ripcord, if you're caught up I don't think you have to wait. There's obviously far greater issues with this becoming a thing only now... but that's besides your point.

Rest are... yea, just yea.

[Kantoro]

Problem is, by the time they release the things I want, removal of timegating, flying, etc, I have unsubbed and am completely bored with the content. So much so, that I have no desire to come back for the new content, which, ofc, is now time-gated.

Now I play other games that are actually fun. And not this one, that is run by morons. I suppose I will probably resub here and there, but no time soon. I look forward to WotLKC.

[Asrialol]

I've seen several people mention this "ripcord". I'm yet to see a "ripcord" in this case. Guess I'm blind.

[VinceVega]

Well they did some changes.

I don't mind timegates which people tend to whine with gusto all around. You can take some stuff a bit more relaxed without loosing your place in the competition.
The moment that is gone you are again forced to nolive the shit out of the game and has nothing to do again except logging in twice a week to raid...

And half the players quit 1 month into the expansion because they have nothing else to do.

Ripcord? Maybe. Still can't switch abilities like a talent which is annoying and it is, again, waaaaaaaaaay to late. SL reched a point just before 9.1 where i said myself, that i will play only one month in the end of the expansion to see the story but not invest time in it again.
Next patch they will introduce something incredibly inconvinient and annoying again... and just make it easier in the prepatch.
The yhave been doing this for 5 years. They won't change anything i guarantee it.

At this point it just feels like the game designers and producers are so god damn arrogant they still think their design is right even though everything points into another direction.

[Soon-TM]

Buzz-phrases are stupid.

Indeed they are. For example, Meaningful Choice™, on top of my head.

[Dhrizzle]

Yes, very challenging and interesting to pick the best choice for pve raiding "my meaningful choice" to be good in pve raiding and at a disadvantage in pvp aswell as at a disadvantage when playing another spec. Then a coupe of months later blizz decided to do a tuning pass and all of a sudden my choice is now meaningless because its no longer the best choice for that content. What an amazing system indeed.

Yes you get to choose if you want your character to excel at one thing, or a different thing, or be middle-of-the-road at both things. Or you can pick a thing that you think is cool regardless of how it affects your gameplay, or you can base your choice on what you think of the mount and transmog options. All choices, all will have an effect on what you can do well and what rewards you can earn. It's pretty difficult to think of what can be more "meaningful" in a game like WoW. And yes rebalancing happens fairly often in WoW so if you picked something because it seemed to be miles ahead of the competition you did yourself a disservice as a nerf would obviously be coming.

Gotta love the old, "oh you have a negative opinion about a feature in a game? Why don't you quit"

Nothing wrong with a negative opinion about a particular feature, there are things in WoW that at various times I've found to be bad or at least neutral. However I'm refer to the fact the game is causing you suffering, it's actually having a negative effect on you so there is no reason why you should play. If the game is so bad for you then why would you want to subject yourself to it? Find something that gives you pleasure instead of misery for your spare time.

and then followed by a dubious claim that im the only person who think the covenant system is bad.
Have you been living under a rock and my post is the first one you see criticizing covenants?

I think we've hit a language barrier here. When I said "One person's..." I didn't mean you had a unique perspective among all the millions of WoW players, it's a turn of phrase in English. The typical phrase is "one man's trash is another man's treasure" which means it is possible for someone (or some people) to find something to be absolutely worthless while another person (or other people) will find it to be marvellous.

Not sure why vanilla was brought up but i enjoyed that game plenty, progress one made was permanent and not taken away on whims by devs, respecs was easy and no gear or powersystem were locked to specific specs.

If you were respeccing regularly in Vanilla it would cost you 50g a time which was a significant amount of grinding unless your server was saturated with gold bought from farmers. Also for someone like yourself who has to be the best at their particular role it wouldn't be that useful as multi-role classes were typically pretty trash at anything other than what was designated their "primary" role.

Also what do you mean gear wasn't locked to specific specs? In Vanilla you needed different stuff for each role, you couldn't even heal properly in spell dps kit because +healing was typically a lot higher than +damage and healing. So if you wanted to do multiple roles on one character not only would you be spending an awful lot of gold you'd also need completely different kit and with few exceptions your character would still suck at offspec roles.

The content on engaged with one could do at ones own pace without having timegated barriers stopping you.

The main progression path was raiding and that was timegated with weekly lockouts, and it was much harsher than current timegating because bosses would typically only drop a few pieces to share between a 40-man group. On top of that there was the thing that timegating was brought in to replace, much longer and more arduous grinds so a typical player with a few hours a day to spare several days a week would achieve much less in Vanilla than they can manage now.

If you really did enjoy Vanilla when it was current content you must have had much more patience for time wasting crap and "punishing" mechanics than you do now.

[rrayy]

I've seen several people mention this "ripcord". I'm yet to see a "ripcord" in this case. Guess I'm blind.

You are not blind. Playes here are spinning Ion's words so they can claim they were right all along. What you are seeing is Blizzard do the exact same thing they have done the past several expansions which was make the systems easier to catch up in. No "ripcord was ever pulled.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

The ripcord hasn't been pulled yet. If it had been pulled than the shitty borrowed power systems and the grinds nobody likes would have been removed from the game.

[Aphrel]

Yes you get to choose if you want your character to excel at one thing, or a different thing, or be middle-of-the-road at both things. Or you can pick a thing that you think is cool regardless of how it affects your gameplay, or you can base your choice on what you think of the mount and transmog options. All choices, all will have an effect on what you can do well and what rewards you can earn. It's pretty difficult to think of what can be more "meaningful" in a game like WoW. And yes rebalancing happens fairly often in WoW so if you picked something because it seemed to be miles ahead of the competition you did yourself a disservice as a nerf would obviously be coming.



Nothing wrong with a negative opinion about a particular feature, there are things in WoW that at various times I've found to be bad or at least neutral. However I'm refer to the fact the game is causing you suffering, it's actually having a negative effect on you so there is no reason why you should play. If the game is so bad for you then why would you want to subject yourself to it? Find something that gives you pleasure instead of misery for your spare time.



I think we've hit a language barrier here. When I said "One person's..." I didn't mean you had a unique perspective among all the millions of WoW players, it's a turn of phrase in English. The typical phrase is "one man's trash is another man's treasure" which means it is possible for someone (or some people) to find something to be absolutely worthless while another person (or other people) will find it to be marvellous.



If you were respeccing regularly in Vanilla it would cost you 50g a time which was a significant amount of grinding unless your server was saturated with gold bought from farmers. Also for someone like yourself who has to be the best at their particular role it wouldn't be that useful as multi-role classes were typically pretty trash at anything other than what was designated their "primary" role.

Also what do you mean gear wasn't locked to specific specs? In Vanilla you needed different stuff for each role, you couldn't even heal properly in spell dps kit because +healing was typically a lot higher than +damage and healing. So if you wanted to do multiple roles on one character not only would you be spending an awful lot of gold you'd also need completely different kit and with few exceptions your character would still suck at offspec roles.



The main progression path was raiding and that was timegated with weekly lockouts, and it was much harsher than current timegating because bosses would typically only drop a few pieces to share between a 40-man group. On top of that there was the thing that timegating was brought in to replace, much longer and more arduous grinds so a typical player with a few hours a day to spare several days a week would achieve much less in Vanilla than they can manage now.

If you really did enjoy Vanilla when it was current content you must have had much more patience for time wasting crap and "punishing" mechanics than you do now.

1. And thats why its a bad system, because retunings happen. If we are to make a meaningful choice, we cant have retunings happen that invalidates that choice and resets players back to square 0.

2. I am doing what im enjoying, and thats raiding and m+ as well as a bunch of other games.

3. So there excist a theoretical person who enjoy the current state of the covenant system over an open one? Yet everything one does now would still be possible without restrictions, that is pick one and only play that one. So that theoretical player would still be able to play exactly the same had covenants released with open swapping.

4. yeah it did cost alot of gold, althou didnt respec every week, especially not during progress. However gold wasnt gated between time gatings so was easily farmable. Back in those days, we didnt have bots camping all black lotus spawns, so getting rich on herbing was significantly easier than on any private servers or classic.

5. While the idea of raiding without being saved to the raid for the lockout could be interesting, im okay with the system as it is. Maybe because it was implemented that way from the start.
With all other features in the game, im looking at things where one used to have the freedom to approach it however one pleased, but are now stopped by barriers that serve no purpose other than prolonging it.

[Dhrizzle]

1. And thats why its a bad system, because retunings happen. If we are to make a meaningful choice, we cant have retunings happen that invalidates that choice and resets players back to square 0.

Unfortunately that will always happen in an MMO like WoW, the alternative is complete homogenisation so all classes and other systems are practically identical.

2. I am doing what im enjoying, and thats raiding and m+ as well as a bunch of other games.

Then good, well done Blizzard for designing a game you enjoy. Does this mean that when you said the game was causing you suffering you really meant there was a part you found a bit annoying but not enough to spoil the fun?

3. So there excist a theoretical person who enjoy the current state of the covenant system over an open one? Yet everything one does now would still be possible without restrictions, that is pick one and only play that one. So that theoretical player would still be able to play exactly the same had covenants released with open swapping.

There are people who enjoy working within the restrictions of a game to best develop their character. Odds on you are one of these players but you draw the line in a different place and just happen to think this particular feature should have less restriction.

4. yeah it did cost alot of gold, althou didnt respec every week, especially not during progress. However gold wasnt gated between time gatings so was easily farmable. Back in those days, we didnt have bots camping all black lotus spawns, so getting rich on herbing was significantly easier than on any private servers or classic.

Low-pop server then? On mine pretty much any easy-money system was camped to hell either by other players or hordes of bots that covered anywhere you could make the slightest bit of money.

5. While the idea of raiding without being saved to the raid for the lockout could be interesting, im okay with the system as it is. Maybe because it was implemented that way from the start.
With all other features in the game, im looking at things where one used to have the freedom to approach it however one pleased, but are now stopped by barriers that serve no purpose other than prolonging it.

All "barriers" in the game serve no purpose other than prolonging it, otherwise you could load in, head straight for the latest raid, one shot every boss on your own and walk out with every piece of loot you could possible want. Also Covenants were introduced from the start with these restrictions in place, prior to SL they didn't exist.

[Aphrel]

Unfortunately that will always happen in an MMO like WoW, the alternative is complete homogenisation so all classes and other systems are practically identical.



Then good, well done Blizzard for designing a game you enjoy. Does this mean that when you said the game was causing you suffering you really meant there was a part you found a bit annoying but not enough to spoil the fun?



There are people who enjoy working within the restrictions of a game to best develop their character. Odds on you are one of these players but you draw the line in a different place and just happen to think this particular feature should have less restriction.



Low-pop server then? On mine pretty much any easy-money system was camped to hell either by other players or hordes of bots that covered anywhere you could make the slightest bit of money.



All "barriers" in the game serve no purpose other than prolonging it, otherwise you could load in, head straight for the latest raid, one shot every boss on your own and walk out with every piece of loot you could possible want. Also Covenants were introduced from the start with these restrictions in place, prior to SL they didn't exist.

The alternative is systems that are easily swapped, not idiotic system that locks one into a choice in a game that isnt static.

Wow are you for real? If so, my condolences.
Its a choice of words, im obviously not suffering from something or by something in the litteral sense. I thought that was obvious and you were just being insincere.

Im absolutely developing my character as best as possible, problem is when that development is being reset because of a badly designed system.

Stormscale-EU, a very highpop server.

It simply doesnt work well with the other features we have in the game. But feel free to go on thinking covenants are great. Wont stop me from having my own opinion of it, one i know most shares and for the same reasons.

[Prothall]

Problem is, by the time they release the things I want, removal of timegating, flying, etc, I have unsubbed and am completely bored with the content. So much so, that I have no desire to come back for the new content, which, ofc, is now time-gated.

Now I play other games that are actually fun. And not this one, that is run by morons. I suppose I will probably resub here and there, but no time soon. I look forward to WotLKC.

Ummm... Congratulations, I guess?

Now if only the rest of the people in this thread would just do the same thing, it would be so much quieter around here.