To all the Bellulars, Asmogolds, Preaches, QoL'ers and Fans that want to Design WOW.

[StillMcfuu]

The last three expansions were the best selling to-date. This idea that WoW is being developed for an ever-shrinking playerbase seems to be starkly contrasted by reality. Again, this isn't a defense of the current system or the way Blizzard handles feedback, just an observation. If we, as a playerbase, are trying to deliver a message to the developers by voting with our wallets then we seem to be doing a pretty shitty job.

What? No they weren't; you are mistaking day 1 purchases, which during WoW's most popular time frame was limited by physical sales.
Bnet Launcher didn't even come out until 2013/2014 and prior to that only Cata offered digital downloads on day 1. Not to mention those day 1 purchase numbers include pre-orders which aren't made on the same day, Blizz is condensing 6 months of purchases and applying them all to one day (even though they account for them as sales during the 6 months as well.) Just from pure sub numbers and player count assumptions we know current wow does not sell as well as it used to.

[Shoukyatwo]

Blizz could go even beyond and you would still get constant QQ threads how everythin sucks, devs are idiots, OP could do it totally better and the world would be a better place if they would just LISTEN to their feedback.

Ahhhhhh so you're making up a false hypothetical in order to defend their years of bad decision making and the fact they DON'T listen to player feedback and haven't for a long time now. LOGIC.

[arkanon]

Please tell me what numbers I made up? Explain how ANY of that was made up? We all know WOTLK peaked at 13 mill. The game kept no less than 7 million players at any given point up until WOD. This is all records made public by the company themselves, and that was the point they stopped announcing them because they got embarrassed. So going by that FACT, how do you consider a game that literally can't retain 2 million subscribers (not even close) and relies on a 16 year old version of itself to help with aforementioned subscriber count and STILL can't hit that mark is all of a sudden "the best selling expansions of all time". You are lying. This isn't an opinion. You're taking first day numbers of people who bought Shadowlands and BFA that they announced to please their shareholders before the fanbase (yet again) realized what complete shit it is and using it as a reference point for TOTAL copies sold. The last 3 expansions don't even come CLOSE to what TBC, Wrath, Cata etc. sold in total copies.

I understood it peaked with 12m subs, not 13, however the biggest issue is not that 1m error, but rather that you then go on to discuss the current subscriber count being "not even close" to 2m subs - Im wondering where you got this "fact" from?

[Shoukyatwo]

What? No they weren't; you are mistaking day 1 purchases, which during WoW's most popular time frame was limited by physical sales.
Bnet Launcher didn't even come out until 2013/2014 and prior to that only Cata offered digital downloads on day 1. Not to mention those day 1 purchase numbers include pre-orders which aren't made on the same day, Blizz is condensing 6 months of purchases and applying them all to one day (even though they account for them as sales during the 6 months as well.) Just from pure sub numbers and player count assumptions we know current wow does not sell as well as it used to.

I literally just pointed this all out right before you wrote this. Talking to people like that person is like talking to a frying pan. You can introduce any data, or logic, or anything for that matter to them and they will defend it no matter what you say or do.

[deenman]

Because Blizzard wants the game to survive and giving players everything they think they need is the most surefire way to kill it off.

plus blizz doesnt need players help to kill the game,they are doing just fine killing it on their own

[TEHPALLYTANK]

"it sucks" is not feedback, its mindless dribble

"it sucks BECAUSE x" is actual fucking feedback.

if everyone said "I hate M+" blizzard removes M+
"Oh no i didnt hate M+ itself i hated the reward scheme!"
well then fucking say so.

No, both are still feedback.

The former is an example of negative feedback, it tells you that someone dislikes something. The latter is negative critical feedback, it tells you that they dislike something and expands upon that by explaining what they specifically dislike about it. Dismissing all of the negative feedback is fine, as long you're not the one making the product that just got negative feedback.

[Rozz]

Tbh I unsubbed from Bellular when he started his 'as a game developer' nonsense. It felt so disrespectful in a professional sense. Even if I don't like what Ion does I'm not arrogant enough to imply that I have anywhere near the same level of experience/industry knowledge as he does to say I'd know better.

Saying your opinions on what feels fun to you is one thing. That was another.

[Relapses]

Please tell me what numbers I made up? Explain how ANY of that was made up? We all know WOTLK peaked at 13 mill. The game kept no less than 7 million players at any given point up until WOD. This is all records made public by the company themselves, and that was the point they stopped announcing them because they got embarrassed. So going by that FACT, how do you consider a game that literally can't retain 2 million subscribers (not even close) and relies on a 16 year old version of itself to help with aforementioned subscriber count and STILL can't hit that mark is all of a sudden "the best selling expansions of all time". You are lying. This isn't an opinion. You're taking first day numbers of people who bought Shadowlands and BFA that they announced to please their shareholders before the fanbase (yet again) realized what complete shit it is and using it as a reference point for TOTAL copies sold. The last 3 expansions don't even come CLOSE to what TBC, Wrath, Cata etc. sold in total copies.

Care to link your source for the "can't even retain 2 million subscribers" claim you've made four times now? Oh right. You can't. They haven't released subscriber numbers since WoD.

[Shoukyatwo]

I understood it peaked with 12m subs, not 13, however the biggest issue is not that 1m error, but rather that you then go on to discuss the current subscriber count being "not even close" to 2m subs - Im wondering where you got this "fact" from?

No, it wasn't 12 million. It was 12.8 if you want to get technical. Please feel free to research this, don't take my word for it. Also, you can literally not figuratively go SERVER BY SERVER and add up the playerbase anytime you want day or night and have been able to do so for ages. This is data made available publicly. If you wish I can happily provide you with links. This goes for the Classic version as well as retail.

[Empower]

I understood it peaked with 12m subs, not 13, however the biggest issue is not that 1m error, but rather that you then go on to discuss the current subscriber count being "not even close" to 2m subs - Im wondering where you got this "fact" from?

My guess would be from active characters? It's the only metric I can think of we have access to even if it is up to interpretation.

[Queen of Hamsters]

What? No they weren't; you are mistaking day 1 purchases, which during WoW's most popular time frame was limited by physical sales.
Bnet Launcher didn't even come out until 2013/2014 and prior to that only Cata offered digital downloads on day 1. Not to mention those day 1 purchase numbers include pre-orders which aren't made on the same day, Blizz is condensing 6 months of purchases and applying them all to one day (even though they account for them as sales during the 6 months as well.) Just from pure sub numbers and player count assumptions we know current wow does not sell as well as it used to.

"Pure sub numbers and player count assumptions"...

..What?

Ya'll are too far gone.

[Yarathir]

Tbh I unsubbed from Bellular when he started his 'as a game developer' nonsense. It felt so disrespectful in a professional sense. Even if I don't like what Ion does I'm not arrogant enough to imply that I have anywhere near the same level of experience/industry knowledge as he does to say I'd know better.

Saying your opinions on what feels fun to you is one thing. That was another.

What games has Bellular developed?

[Queen of Hamsters]

Tbh I unsubbed from Bellular when he started his 'as a game developer' nonsense. It felt so disrespectful in a professional sense. Even if I don't like what Ion does I'm not arrogant enough to imply that I have anywhere near the same level of experience/industry knowledge as he does to say I'd know better.

Saying your opinions on what feels fun to you is one thing. That was another.

... Wasn't Bellular supposed to put out a game but didn't, or did he?

It wouldn't make him qualified to speak on WoW one way or another, but I thought I've seen plenty call him a "game developer"...

[oathy]

Tbh I unsubbed from Bellular when he started his 'as a game developer' nonsense. It felt so disrespectful in a professional sense. Even if I don't like what Ion does I'm not arrogant enough to imply that I have anywhere near the same level of experience/industry knowledge as he does to say I'd know better.

Saying your opinions on what feels fun to you is one thing. That was another.

100% the same,
used to find his videos quite good then he kept coming out with that
and almost gloating. It felt like a very long time since he posted videos wiith actual ideas

[Shoukyatwo]

Care to link your source for the "can't even retain 2 million subscribers" claim you've made four times now? Oh right. You can't. They haven't released subscriber numbers since WoD.

Okkkkkkkkk then let's play. Just because THEY don't release numbers anymore (which is because they're too ashamed to show the actual severe dwindling of their numbers over the years) doesn't mean resources don't exist for you to calculate how many people are in the game. This is ALL 83 servers total right now in the U.S., as well as Europe etc.. But since you are hard headed I can gladly provide other links as well. Please by all means get out your calculator since I'm "making things up". https://www.wowprogress.com/realms/rank/us

[Indigenously Abled]

Tbh I unsubbed from Bellular when he started his 'as a game developer' nonsense. It felt so disrespectful in a professional sense. Even if I don't like what Ion does I'm not arrogant enough to imply that I have anywhere near the same level of experience/industry knowledge as he does to say I'd know better.

Saying your opinions on what feels fun to you is one thing. That was another.

It was funny watching that guy morph from a clean-cut slightly opinionated news jockey to the utter laughingstock he is now.

[Shoukyatwo]

"Pure sub numbers and player count assumptions"...

..What?

Ya'll are too far gone.

Yup we're so far gone. Because we use data and not fan boy biases. Ok.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Yup we're so far gone. Because we use data and not fan boy biases. Ok.

HAHAHAHAHA

You take care. You're, as I said, too far gone. Can't cite what isn't given, chump.

[Relapses]

No, it wasn't 12 million. It was 12.8 if you want to get technical. Please feel free to research this, don't take my word for it. Also, you can literally not figuratively go SERVER BY SERVER and add up the playerbase anytime you want day or night and have been able to do so for ages. This is data made available publicly. If you wish I can happily provide you with links. This goes for the Classic version as well as retail.

Oh man, that's fucking rich. You make a claim without a source then when you get called out on it, you tell the person asking you to source your claim to "do the research themselves." And yet you're the one in here calling people "meth addicts" for asking others to approach this subject with a shred of integrity. I wish I could make this shit up.

[Yarathir]

Imagine for a second, just unironically thinking that WoW's last 3 expansions have performed far better in terms of sub numbers and engagement than ever before.