Andrew Yang to Launch a Third Party

[PC2]

Let us know when you find a flaw that you point out, we’re with bated breath waiting for it to happen.

I don't see a major flaw at the moment. I think people like Andrew Yang okay but his ideas are too experimental and his third party could side track the Democratic agenda. That's a reasonable concern, not flawed.

I guess the main flaw on this topic is just that these ideas usually require more federal tax revenue, possibly even double the revenue if they don't want to simply take the money from other social programs. Realistically Democrats can only increase taxes by around 10% before they piss off economists and the upper class, so the main flaw here just comes down to the numbers not being right in 2021.

[cubby]

Okay, if you're impatient and want "all or nothing" when it comes to UBI then I think it'll just be nothing. Nobody is actually serious about implementing $1k UBI, except for maybe a couple rich oil states where the numbers work.

You are patently and conclusively wrong. UBI is the future of most western countries. It solves a number of problems in several areas of society and makes people's lives better.

[PC2]

UBI is the future of most western countries. It solves a number of problems in several areas of society and makes people's lives better.

Probably but not anytime soon at $1k per month. Eventually society will make so much wealth every year that giving people $1k per month(adjusted for inflation) is nothing, it'll be chump change. If you're assuming this will happen in our lifetimes though I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

[cubby]

Probably but not anytime soon at $1k per month. Eventually society will make so much wealth every year that giving people $1k per month(adjusted for inflation) is nothing, it'll be chump change. If you're assuming this will happen in our lifetimes though I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

$1k is the start - that amount would be used in test cases; has in fact already been used in a few country's test runs. The actual amount will depend on the country - but probably $2-3k/mo, enough to cover rent/food/utilities/bus-pass and perhaps a bit of spending money for misc.

The benefits of UBI are legion, which is why so many countries are taking serious looks at it now.

The idea that we HAVE to work jobs we hate to live is ridiculous.

[Shadowferal]

Probably but not anytime soon at $1k per month. Eventually society will make so much wealth every year that giving people $1k per month(adjusted for inflation) is nothing, it'll be chump change. If you're assuming this will happen in our lifetimes though I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

Say hello to Norway.

[uuuhname]

I mean.... I'm not against the idea of breaking up the two party system we currently have, but it's never going to take off unless there is some serious grassroots support and backing for it. this is obviously not it.

[Fugus]

Luckily I don't think Yang is popular enough to be a noticeable spoiler. He's no Bernie.

That being said, with as much as the republicans love voter suppression and gerrymandering, any little chunk taken away from a prospective democrat candidate can indeed be damaging.

Not only that, you can best expect them to start funding him and giving him as much exposure as they can.

About the only things that would stop that would be if he actually started getting traction with their own voters.

Could see him run for president and Republicans spend more pushing him as a 3rd party than they do their own person or close to it just to try and split the opposition.


Damn we need to fix our system to make 3rd parties viable and not be possible spoilers anymore.

[PC2]

Say hello to Norway.

Hello to Norway. What about it?

[cuafpr]

hmm he was the one Dem I was thinking of voting for, and the 1k UBI would have been an interesting experiment to see its actually cost/impact. UBI will be a thing one day, not in our lifetimes most likely though. Society needs AI/androids at a near Data (ST:TNG) level for it to work. Also, society must be ok with a HUGE wealth gap where people that collect UBI and work or build the AI/androids doing the menial jobs live like royalty while everyone else does nothing but still has a nice house, no food, or bill worries. It would basically be up to each person do you want to live stress-free doing whatever you want or do you want to work and earn more than the spoils of it. (my 2 copper)

[cubby]

Hello to Norway. What about it?

This is what we're talking about when we discuss your ignorance of this top (UBI). If you don't understand why Norway is relevant to the UBI discussion, then you're playing on the wrong field.

[PC2]

This is what we're talking about when we discuss your ignorance of this top (UBI). If you don't understand why Norway is relevant to the UBI discussion, then you're playing on the wrong field.

I thought Norway's welfare is conditional as opposed to universal. How much financial aid a person gets from the government depends on their context.

[Gestopft]

Best of luck to him in his utter irrelevancy?

[Benggaul]

I mean.... I'm not against the idea of breaking up the two party system we currently have, but it's never going to take off unless there is some serious grassroots support and backing for it. this is obviously not it.

Breaking up the two party system before ranked choice voting is in is just a recipe for disaster for the Democrats. The GOP are pretty much in lockstep when it comes to pushing their shit through whereas the Dems really are a "Big Tent" party. Lots of opinions and lots of disagreements and, as we see in the Senate and sometimes in the House, that can lead to roadblocks towards progress. The Democrats should break up into separate parties that better represent the people who vote for them--but they can't safely do that until the GOP is destroyed or else in this case the split vote between Yang's Gang and the Democratic party would hand the GOP victories en masse.

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Society needs AI/androids at a near Data (ST:TNG) level for it to work. Also, society must be ok with a HUGE wealth gap where people that collect UBI and work or build the AI/androids doing the menial jobs live like royalty while everyone else does nothing but still has a nice house, no food, or bill worries.

This is a load of nonsense as UBI is actually a thing in several places, including Kenya, Iran and even Alaska.

Stockton, California is in the middle of an 18-month experiment in which they give 500$ monthly to 125 people and LA announced in June that they'll be launching their own UBI program in which 2,000 families will get 1k per month for a year.

So, no, it doesn't take "OMG futuristic tech!" to make it happen. It just takes a policy change and a population to vote for it. Numerous experiments have been run successfully. Rich people just do everything they can to shut it down.

[cuafpr]

Breaking up the two party system before ranked choice voting is in is just a recipe for disaster for the Democrats. The GOP are pretty much in lockstep when it comes to pushing their shit through whereas the Dems really are a "Big Tent" party. Lots of opinions and lots of disagreements and, as we see in the Senate and sometimes in the House, that can lead to roadblocks towards progress. The Democrats should break up into separate parties that better represent the people who vote for them--but they can't safely do that until the GOP is destroyed or else in this case the split vote between Yang's Gang and the Democratic party would hand the GOP victories en masse.

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This is a load of nonsense as UBI is actually a thing in several places, including Kenya, Iran and even Alaska.

Stockton, California is in the middle of an 18-month experiment in which they give 500$ monthly to 125 people and LA announced in June that they'll be launching their own UBI program in which 2,000 families will get 1k per month for a year.

So, no, it doesn't take "OMG futuristic tech!" to make it happen. It just takes a policy change and a population to vote for it. Numerous experiments have been run successfully. Rich people just do everything they can to shut it down.

500 a month even 1k a month UBI is not what I was alluding to, that is still experimental to me.. I'm talking UBI on the level of everyone getting 70-100k/ year so you legit don't have to do a thing to live. 500-1000 a month is not enough to do anything else on.

[Endus]

500 a month even 1k a month UBI is not what I was alluding to, that is still experimental to me.. I'm talking UBI on the level of everyone getting 70-100k/ year so you legit don't have to do a thing to live. 500-1000 a month is not enough to do anything else on.

On what planet do you need $70k+ just to get by?

The more-aggressive UBI models call for anywhere up to $45k or so. I haven't seen anyone proposing more than the equivalent of a living wage as UBI.

[s_bushido]

Eventually society will make so much wealth every year that giving people $1k per month(adjusted for inflation) is nothing, it'll be chump change.

It already does.

[Lenonis]

If you think PC2 is being sincere then you really haven't been paying attention, if PC2 embraces UBI then there is typically a political cost. I am in no way meaning that as an insult or calling PC2 a Liar, but his motives are pretty Transparent not giving a fuck about anyone but himself.

Oh no. I don't think PC2 is a real account in any sense.

He fits into the category I've put posters like Orlong and some others -- They are just amusing themselves here with absurd takes but are representative of a group of people who actually believe these things.

I do think some folks like Texasrules and Machismo are sincere in there beliefs even when they get on the more extreme/absurd side. But most of our current batch of right wingers are just cosplay accounts for the lulz.

[PC2]

It already does.

Bologna. There's 7 billion people. That's $7 trillion a month, $84 trillion a year. Total wealth accumulated from every year on Earth is only maybe $400 trillion. UBI would be an insane program with 2021 numbers.

Oh and if UBI is legit then it must be increasingly universal over time. Meaning all countries need to try implement a similar policy and it shouldn't discriminate against young and old people.

Oh no. I don't think PC2 is a real account in any sense.

He fits into the category I've put posters like Orlong and some others -- They are just amusing themselves here with absurd takes but are representative of a group of people who actually believe these things.

I do think some folks like Texasrules and Machismo are sincere in there beliefs even when they get on the more extreme/absurd side. But most of our current batch of right wingers are just cosplay accounts for the lulz.

Can you even give me one example of an argument or position I am not sincere about? Try to name one, I will then tell you why I see a certain position as the best and why it is better than the alternative.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Time to dust off the ole' #YangGang t-shirt, I guess.

[Calfredd]

Can you even give me one example of an argument or position I am not sincere about? Try to name one, I will then tell you why I see a certain position as the best and why it is better than the alternative.

Nothing you say can be taken seriously or be given much serious thought when you yourself admitted to speaking in complete ignorance of the topic at hand. Ignorance is bliss which explains why you pretend to champion the cause of optimism.