What exactly does blizzard learn from each expansion?

[Aggressive]

The most important thing Blizzard has learned from each expansion is the fact no matter how bad the class design is, no matter how bad the story is, no matter how unbalanced pvp is, no matter how redundant world content is, as long as you bump the ilevel on gear at least 10 points per patch people will still play and defend their decisions.

This here is where the issue lies with Blizzard. This is one of the major reasons that some of the players are leaving in droves, This is one of the reasons why THIS king is NOT living forever.

Blizzard DOES NOT LISTEN. They have become so arrogant and prideful in thinking what they make is the best shit ever. And these clingy players who log on and deals with the boredom of the game is telling Blizzard it is ok to keep making these shitty ass systems.

[Goat7]

Has anyone noticed that it doesn't seem to ever come from player feed back?

Just to pick out a few from legion onwards (I could go back further but just for a bit of brevity) .

Legion: players loved artifact weapon appearances but disliked artifact power. Blizzard trashed the cosmetic parts of the system and kept artifact power going forward.

BFA: Players despised all the power systems that increasing got more and more obnoxious as the expansion continued onwards. In shadowlands these systems didn't just survive they multiplied.

I don't even see any self awareness in shadowlands since in 9.1 they added a massive time gate tied to grinding via gem sets they effectively lock you out of higher level raiding till you have them. I have to admit it is starting to feel more like spite then simple ignorance of what their playerbase wants.

IMO. they have learned its real easy to put out dog poo over and over and still make mad money because we all dumb and keep buying it over and over.

[Oxen12]

They force you to like systems that take a lot of gated time so you log on a lot*.

[Nefastus]

They don't learn anything, that's why the game is dying, they haven't created a new ip in ages, and they are now irrelevant.

The extreme censorship doenst feel right thats for sure. Some stuff are borderline ridiculous such as the bowl of fruits painting. I also think Blizzard is becoming an irrelevant company, nothing new indeed, they got another diablo coming with the ancient arpg or whatever style and another overwatch that feels like a xpac.

I dont spend money with blizard anymore. I play HOTS for a month every year but thats all (game is so toxic its impossible to keep playing for extended periods of time). Dont even spend real money on that game either.

[Azxza]

B]The thing is, I strongly believe they measure a system's success based on player's engagement instead of player's general happiness.[/B]

I mean, it took them a year to do the thing (Covenants being freely interchangeable) people were telling them to do the moment that we learned about how the Covenant system worked.

And hell just look at Korthia. It's supposed to be catchup gear so you can get your alts up to speed in a reasonable manner. Reality? It's yet another systems + currency + RNG grind. Why would they be so incredibly hostile towards alts when the game was already very alt friendly in the past, if not because they want to drive up engagement numbers?

[Essem]

After playing classic and now TBC classic one of the things ive learned is that making gold meaningless is the worst thing that has happened to WoW.
Farming for gold was one of the main things keeping the world alive. Dailies or just farm for specific things.

[Schizoide]

Yes I agree, having essentially infinite money does take a bit of the juice out of the game. I never farmed for gold even before I got rich on table missions, but I spent a lot more effort playing the AH. Now, why bother? I'll never spend the money I've got.

[The Stormbringer]

They probably learn a lot but most people do not seem to be aware of their lead times (couple of years) and how difficult it is to predict what players are going to be tolerant of a couple of years down the line.

That's why a lot of changes seem to happen not in the next expansion but the expansion after that. By that time a lot of it has become irrelevant.

One thing they learned from Warlords was to never leave casual players with nothing to do. The "stuff to do" may not be all that engaging after a while but there's no lack of it. I rather imagine that apart from raiding and PVP the "never leave a player without something to work on" is the driving force behind the design.

"Something to work on" or "stuff to do" doesn't have to equate "forced to do" or "necessary for everything". That's the problem I think a lot of players have had lately, at least from what I've seen here and on other forums. I didn't feel forced to do Timeless Isle for months at a time, but I did it anyway because I enjoyed it, as an example. I would've liked more content like Timeless Isle, that would've been even better, but it was something that was there.

Also, that whole 'expansion after this expansion' thing is a big problem. They really need to change up how they design games so they can make changes more easily if that's the case.

[MoanaLisa]

"Something to work on" or "stuff to do" doesn't have to equate "forced to do" or "necessary for everything". That's the problem I think a lot of players have had lately, at least from what I've seen here and on other forums.

I could be wrong but 'forced' seems to be a social pressure thing mostly to do with organized raiding and high-level M+. I don't do either of those things which puts me in a very large crowd of players estimated at higher than 70% of everyone. I don't feel forced to do anything at all.

Also, that whole 'expansion after this expansion' thing is a big problem. They really need to change up how they design games so they can make changes more easily if that's the case.

Yes, that is a big issue. You can bet that the system guts of 11.0 are being designed at least pseudo-coded right now. They've been pretty open about this in the past.

[Schizoide]

I really doubt they're working two expansions ahead like that. Concepts for the setting and art content maybe, but core design changes? I don't see that as likely.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Not much. I would imagine they already start working on one before the other is done. So basically the foundation is poured when they hear they need to change the pipe layout in the concrete.

[VoidSeeker199X]

so if we take this as read, just out of curiosity delving into your secret knowledge, what is the business model behind "make a shitty product nobody likes on purpose and purely out of spite in order to make money" and how does that work exactly?

They are only interested in selling you the expansion. Shadowlands has sold record numbers. They know that the majority of players will quit a month in so why invest in making fun content?

[Postmasters]

I could be wrong but 'forced' seems to be a social pressure thing mostly to do with organized raiding and high-level M+. I don't do either of those things which puts me in a very large crowd of players estimated at higher than 70% of everyone. I don't feel forced to do anything at all.


Yes, that is a big issue. You can bet that the system guts of 11.0 are being designed at least pseudo-coded right now. They've been pretty open about this in the past.

It isn't really social... unless you class stack heavily with the very best players in the world mythic bosses wont die after a certain point unless you massively out gear them. They are tuned around these system the systems are not cheats.

- - - Updated - - -

They are only interested in selling you the expansion. Shadowlands has sold record numbers. They know that the majority of players will quit a month in so why invest in making fun content?

It hasn't though... it sold the fastest but that is more down to digital distribution.

[Celista]

They don't learn anything, that's why the game is dying, they haven't created a new ip in ages, and they are now irrelevant.

Yup agreed. I have been unsubbed for awhile and I intermittently check the forums to see if anything notable has changed. I don't even miss playing the game anymore which is just sad.

[Coniferous]

Honestly I think their approach is to try and refine something rather than toss it out like the player base demands the moment they don't like something.

It's more that they've had such a loyal customer base for so long that they haven't had to compete with other titles, their big problem was people getting bored and unsubbing too quickly, so they added in grinds.

But now that they actually have some competition they haven't adjusted their mindset. Their releasing content at the same time as the big Final Fantasy release, a tried and true Blizz strat of quashing the competition, feels likely to backfire this time as their smaller content release might just get ignored. In short, they've become big, dumb, and complacent.

[Schizoide]

They are? What content is being released in 9.1.5?

[Stabbyfists]

How to fondle and abuse your wallet with more and more aggressive micro transactions while also doing the same to their female employees irl.

They learn how to appear virtuous by instantly firing and removing people who did nothing wrong like Quinton Flynn or Swifty while keeping scumbags like Afrisabi on staff.

They learned they can give their playerbase the middle finger for nearly a decade while implementing more and more changes the overall player base hates.

They learned how to suckle the teet of the press to attack the fans who demand better of blizzard while also keeping the allegations and lawsuit buried (Jason Schrier is also a scumbag)

They learned that They can do whatever they want and their stans will defend them suckling all the Copium they can.

That is what blizzard learned from expansion to expansion.

[Mysterymask]

Lmao how many years? Come on man

I mean that's kinda how Blizzard works...ride the coattails of a few games you continuously develop. How long did CD Projekt Red ride the Witcher 3 and Gwent train until Cyberpunk came out? Hell Riots been riding on League for a loooooooooong time and is just now finally starting to branch out

[JABoyle3875]

That they can do whatever they want, there are not enough people voting with their wallets to counteract the undoubtedly huge amount of $$$ they make from store mounts and token purchases.

I loved this game for years - played from just before the launch of BC (but do not consider myself someone to have played real Vanilla), up until leveling one toon to 60 in SL, then just developing a sense of dread/distaste over the thought of trying to gear up that toon or even worse, slogging through the worst leveling experience ever devised in WoW. I spent WAY too much on boosts, mounts, server/faction transfers, etc over the years, across two accounts - that have been hardcore nuked by Blizzard. They aren't coming back...and I'm not coming back.

Until more people do that, they will continue to do what they do. It's like the Colorado Rockies, an (allegedly) major league baseball team. They are consistently in the top tier of attendance every year no matter what the quality of the team is, between out of towners/transplants going to see the Cards, Cubs, etc, and Rockies fans just not caring about the product on the field. It is a beautiful park, has a bar crawl scene around it that is top notch and has amazing views of the Rocky Mountains.

The fans' refusal to stop coming to the games no matter what has resulted in a team that since they started playing in 1993 has never won a division title, and in the five years they've qualified for the playoffs, they've always done it as the lowest possible seed - and the one time they had success and went to the World Series it required winning 14 out of their last 15 just to get in, and then they got their asses handed to them on a plate by Boston. On top of that, COUNTING the years that they have qualified for the playoffs, they average 17.5 games out of first place at the end of the year. Then before this year they trade the best player they've ever had (and likely top 3 of all time third baseman) for four prospects that would have to improve to be garbage, AND they also sent 51,000,000 bucks to the other team in the deal!

My point? Shit ain't changing until people vote with their wallets.

[Mysterymask]

Until more people do that, they will continue to do what they do. It's like the Colorado Rockies, an (allegedly) major league baseball team. They are consistently in the top tier of attendance every year no matter what the quality of the team is, between out of towners/transplants going to see the Cards, Cubs, etc, and Rockies fans just not caring about the product on the field. It is a beautiful park, has a bar crawl scene around it that is top notch and has amazing views of the Rocky Mountains.

The fans' refusal to stop coming to the games no matter what has resulted in a team that since they started playing in 1993 has never won a division title, and in the five years they've qualified for the playoffs, they've always done it as the lowest possible seed - and the one time they had success and went to the World Series it required winning 14 out of their last 15 just to get in, and then they got their asses handed to them on a plate by Boston. On top of that, COUNTING the years that they have qualified for the playoffs, they average 17.5 games out of first place at the end of the year. Then before this year they trade the best player they've ever had (and likely top 3 of all time third baseman) for four prospects that would have to improve to be garbage, AND they also sent 51,000,000 bucks to the other team in the deal!

My point? Shit ain't changing until people vote with their wallets.

Oh so that's how the Red Sox and the Cubs ended their drought by the fans not showing up..of course makes sense