10.0 Revamp - Seems extremely likely now

[VinceVega]

I would love it... but ActiBlizz started to do MINIMAL content in every single game they make...
Stuff gets cut and smaller over and over and over again. MAYBE they change after the shitshow that was last year... but i would not hold my breath.

It will be some stupid light void story no one asked for

[ro9ue]

Because they already tried it and it sucked and was universally hated as one of the worst expansion features in the history of wow?

Players hated that they had no other content in the expansion, so it made them resent their "facebook game" Garrisons because that's all there was to do. Besides, that's not even close to true player housing. This would be something that would exist indefinitely in terms of relevance, be far more customizable and allow you to pick what city or zone you wanted it in, among other things.

[Soon-TM]

Metagaming has taken over and has become deeply ingrained into the game. You might have to change the players if you want that experience back.

The fun part is that Ion is apparently aware of this issue, yet he and his team continue to develop a game that ultimately caters to the top 2% or so of the playerbase, i.e. the mythic raiders (especially the WF kind) who are the embodiment of metagaming. And he even seems to be aware about how this approach trickles down to larger segments of the playerbase... And yet he keeps doing the same thing that brought the game into this conundrum in the first place.

Today, people are almost trained to min-max. (...) Community pushes people in that direction, especially socially. Even if it’s not your preferred playstyle, the people who may want you in your group or may not, are holding you to some of those standards. Once it’s knowable, you’re expected to know.

[Relapses]

The fun part is that Ion is apparently aware of this issue, yet he and his team continue to develop a game that ultimately caters to the top 2% or so of the playerbase, i.e. the mythic raiders (especially the WF kind) who are the embodiment of metagaming. And he even seems to be aware about how this approach trickles down to larger segments of the playerbase... And yet he keeps doing the same thing that brought the game into this conundrum in the first place.

What you mean when you say that this game is "designed for the top 2%" is that the game wasn't designed the way you wanted it. Therefore, because you cannot comprehend the possibility that your personal preference is not shared by 100% of the playerbase, you have to pretend it's being designed around a minority of players whose only desire is to make you unhappy with the game.

[hzjf]

The fun part is that Ion is apparently aware of this issue, yet he and his team continue to develop a game that ultimately caters to the top 2% or so of the playerbase, i.e. the mythic raiders (especially the WF kind) who are the embodiment of metagaming. And he even seems to be aware about how this approach trickles down to larger segments of the playerbase... And yet he keeps doing the same thing that brought the game into this conundrum in the first place.

im so tired of this BULLSHIT

Yes the Game is catered to the 1-2%..... oh my fucking God how can anyone actually believe this fucking stupid Myth. Jeff Kaplan debunked this already... IN 2005

But hey lets look at the amazing catering for the 2% who are just interested in RAIDING.

-level multiple characters of the same Class just in case you have bad rng ? Yeah so fun everyone wants to do this
-having to grind every leveled class to a certain Power Level before the Raid opens ? Yeah so fun everyone wants to do this
-having to do 60+ Mplus in one week while also doing Heroic Splits and Daily Quests? Yeah so fun everyone wants to do this

this list could go on and on.. So feel Free to continue believing the Game is made for the 1-2%

Spoiler: IT IS NOT

The Game simply became bad because Blizzard stopped putting in any Effort

[T-34]

The fun part is that Ion is apparently aware of this issue, yet he and his team continue to develop a game that ultimately caters to the top 2% or so of the playerbase, i.e. the mythic raiders (especially the WF kind) who are the embodiment of metagaming. And he even seems to be aware about how this approach trickles down to larger segments of the playerbase... And yet he keeps doing the same thing that brought the game into this conundrum in the first place.

The interesting issue here is why there are players, and they seem to very well represented here, that are unable to seek out like-minded people, organize themselves and play like they want to play?
If the top 2% are able to find people like themselves, organize themselves and play like they want it, what stops the other 98% from doing the same?
There is plenty of content for all skill levels, ranging from normal dungeons and LFR to high M+ and mythic raids.

Maybe the "top-2%" spend more time thinking: "What can I do to improve myself and my in-game experience" instead of "What should others do to improve my in-game experience."

Edit:
The vast majority of those that play WoW are self-aware and automatically seek out people who have a similar definition of fun, no matter how skilled they are at the game.

And by that I mean that a tiny minority in-game, but vastly over-represented here, spends all their energy on demanding that others should play the game like they want instead of seeking out people with a similar definition of fun.

[Aedruid]

Obviously I can't speak on behalf of the entire playerbase but I've found the M+ model to be pretty rewarding. The guild I play with are of the same mentality. (Mostly because we're old ass boomers who've played together since Wrath.) The issue with discussions about the game like this is that very few people agree on what constitutes meaningful content; the second that two players disagree one will simply argue that because they prefer one of type of content that the other isn't worth discussing.

I realize this is a bit self-defeating considering my argument against player housing but I simply feel it'd be a complete dead end in terms of development time.

You make a good point here, if all my friends were still playing, I'd stick around and find M+ and raiding more enjoyable, but unfortunately all my friends don't play anymore and every guild I join quits playing WoW. So, what can I do other than join pugs? I can farm old content and PVP. There is no engaging solo RPG experience that I can engage in up until I can join a new guild / group of friends. Since I only enjoy mythic raiding WHEN I raid, if I'm not meta, I'm out - or I need to spend money to transfer / race change if I am lucky enough to be found on recruitment forums.

Player housing definitely wouldn't keep me around, so I do agree with that, but what can be added to keep me playing the game? An amazing questing experience post level cap with no time gate, alt-friendliness, more complexity to specs within the game (more viable builds), prestige, and name recognition - which was eliminated with LFG and server merging / layering.

[Soon-TM]

Jeff Kaplan debunked this already... IN 2005

Good thing that this is no longer 2005, Kaplan hasn't worked in WoW for quite some time now, and the design philosophy of 2005 was tossed out the window a long time ago.

The rest of your post are the mindless chores that seemingly are "casual friendly" content in Ion's mind (essentially M+ and systems grinds).

@T-34 gotta love your superiority complex, but your answer was so utterly unrelated to my post that I'm tempted to think you were answering to someone else

[Aedruid]

It's not designed for the top 2%, but there are time gates that keep the top 2% in mind because Blizzard knows that the top 2% want world first and will do anything to achieve it. I think Blizz needs to stop considering degenerate gameplay and just allow it. Stop thinking about / implementing / wasting time on time gates, balancing, and making specs more homogenized.

1. Homogenization makes the specs boring
2. Balancing will never happen, so why not just have fun?
3. Time gates ruin the story, I always forget what I did last when the next quest unlocks

[T-34]

@T-34 gotta love your superiority complex, but your answer was so utterly unrelated to my post that I'm tempted to think you were answering to someone else

Well thank you, kind sir.
I shall pass on your complimentary remarks about me to the other average people I play with and they shall see that I'm not average after all

As an average player I can recommend spending less time being mad about "metaplayers" and instead focussing on finding like-minded people and enjoy the content in-game that caters to all play-styles and skill levels.
So my "answer" wasn't an answer, but a debunking of the myth that the game is only for the "top-2%".

[jackofwind]

Am I not allowed to have an opinion that two games can excel within the same genre independent of their features?

It was just a question, no need to get defensive and respond with a counter question.

[Relapses]

You make a good point here, if all my friends were still playing, I'd stick around and find M+ and raiding more enjoyable, but unfortunately all my friends don't play anymore and every guild I join quits playing WoW. So, what can I do other than join pugs? I can farm old content and PVP. There is no engaging solo RPG experience that I can engage in up until I can join a new guild / group of friends. Since I only enjoy mythic raiding WHEN I raid, if I'm not meta, I'm out - or I need to spend money to transfer / race change if I am lucky enough to be found on recruitment forums.

Player housing definitely wouldn't keep me around, so I do agree with that, but what can be added to keep me playing the game? An amazing questing experience post level cap with no time gate, alt-friendliness, more complexity to specs within the game (more viable builds), prestige, and name recognition - which was eliminated with LFG and server merging / layering.

Your concern is the crux of the issue with WoW (and honestly, broadly speaking the entire genre of video games) as a whole. In the past a player like you would have had plenty to stay engaged with. Over time, however, the game strayed from what you wanted out of it. Should the designers never change anything ever to appease players like you? Or should the designers forge a new direction, possibly alienating players like you but making the game more approachable for others? Ghostcrawler had a blog post about this subject that I thought was pretty enlightening. The tl,dr is that they've found most people don't quit because of issues with the game (as you often read on forums), they quit because of the exact reason you mentioned -- the people they played with don't play any more and they're just bored of the game.

I generally agree with Greg's take here that it's better to err on the side of innovation; however, I'm firmly of the belief that the innovation needs to be in the direction of things which already work in the game. Player housing simply doesn't fit with the current design philosophy and I think it'd require a ground-up reconceptualization to make it into the feature that a lot of people arguing in its favor would like to see. I don't necessarily think this is impossible but it'd certainly be a huge endeavor -- one which, again, I simply cannot see panning out the way players in its favor like to pretend it will.

[darklogrus]

Apparently I'm in the minority around here with this opinion but I'd say it's almost like billion dollar titans of industry aren't designed by complete idiots.

Plenty of Billion dollar companies have crumbled do to that very reason..

[Soon-TM]

Well thank you, kind sir.
I shall pass on your complimentary remarks about me to the other average people I play with and they shall see that I'm not average after all

As an average player I can recommend spending less time being mad about "metaplayers" and instead focussing on finding like-minded people and enjoy the content in-game that caters to all play-styles and skill levels.
So my "answer" wasn't an answer, but a debunking of the myth that the game is only for the "top-2%".

I will refer you to @Aedruid 's post right above yours, since he/she seems to have understood my post much better than you. And while I should thank you for your (unsolicited) advice, it happens to be utterly unnecessary, since I unsubbed months ago and I'm just waiting for 10.0 atm.

So save your advices for someone actually interested in them, and have a good afternoon.

[Relapses]

Plenty of Billion dollar companies have crumbled do to that very reason..

And plenty haven't. Set, match.

[Swnem]

Well, WoD was cut short. That expansion started like something huge, with a ridiculous potential to be massive and...ended up suddenly and rushed.

That to me is a course change somewhere in there...

That was not a course change in the future expansion. It was just cutting content on the current expansion.

[Aedruid]

Your concern is the crux of the issue with WoW (and honestly, broadly speaking the entire genre of video games) as a whole. In the past a player like you would have had plenty to stay engaged with. Over time, however, the game strayed from what you wanted out of it. Should the designers never change anything ever to appease players like you? Or should the designers forge a new direction, possibly alienating players like you but making the game more approachable for others? Ghostcrawler had a blog post about this subject that I thought was pretty enlightening. The tl,dr is that they've found most people don't quit because of issues with the game (as you often read on forums), they quit because of the exact reason you mentioned -- the people they played with don't play any more and they're just bored of the game.

I generally agree with Greg's take here that it's better to err on the side of innovation; however, I'm firmly of the belief that the innovation needs to be in the direction of things which already work in the game. Player housing simply doesn't fit with the current design philosophy and I think it'd require a ground-up reconceptualization to make it into the feature that a lot of people arguing in its favor would like to see. I don't necessarily think this is impossible but it'd certainly be a huge endeavor -- one which, again, I simply cannot see panning out the way players in its favor like to pretend it will.

Makes sense, the game can't stay the same forever; otherwise, it would die, but don't you think that the innovation that you mentioned should include what the core playerbase would enjoy? Should we not build upon a foundation; as opposed to, recreate the foundation? Shouldn't WoW. the flagship MMO innovate the MMO genre itself? WoW was the flagship for most MMOs nowadays, and WoW does build on it's strengths pretty well, but I've noticed that over time things have been watered down and not as exciting for the core strengths of WoW (for example taking away tier sets, pruning abilities, making baseline abilities talents, and not adding new rows of talents). Should we not expect new ground breaking tech within the MMO sphere from Blizzard just like when WoW was first released? Running off the same model is safe, but would it truly lead to success? I really don't see WoW being successful and inspiring growth with Mythic + alone. Raids, maybe (mythic raiding is really fun), but getting that 20 man core group to log on every raid day is a killer.

[darklogrus]

And plenty haven't. Set, match.

An plenty are on the fence..

[Beefhammer]

Well, WoD was cut short. That expansion started like something huge, with a ridiculous potential to be massive and...ended up suddenly and rushed.

That to me is a course change somewhere in there...

Um, content was cut long before it went into testing. It's been well talked about. They doubled the team size just before production on WoD and Legion commenced. The WoD team had most of the newbies. It took them a lot long to onboard and get up to speed. By the time Blizzcon 2013 came around, they had cut a zone, a raid patch, and some other smaller stuffs to get the expansion out in time. It wasn't rushed, it was cut.

- - - Updated - - -

Blizzards past experience proves they can't handle revamps. Hell when its all said and done it took them 16 months to roll out a second content patch..

Yeah a global pandemic and an investigstion i to bad stuffs certainly didn't play a role.

- - - Updated - - -

It's like you have been living under a rock or something. The company thinks very little of its own employees, so what gives you the impression that think any differently for the common player..

Or, some of you are no longer the target audience and have grown out of WoW. That doesn't mean they are fucking you over, you no longer are their target.

[Vasilisa]

...are you sure you want revamp or remaster after Warcaft III: Refunded?