I can't believe we haven't seen characters like Varian, Saurfang and Rastakhan in SL

[kenn9530]

No, he literally had Sargeras inside of him.

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But Garrosh wasn't completely drained.

Sargeras was not inside medivh, only a small part of the soul was passed on through his mother, thats enough to corrupt the mind and gain access to the body over time, medivh never once uses fel magic, hes the guardian he doesnt need to ever touch fel magic, his magic is strong enough, so no medivh never used fel magic at all.

[Syegfryed]

shadowlands is just a big missed opportunity because it was trapped inside danuser personal fanfic.

countless of afterlives and characters death, we only see 4 death places and a few characters, and since all of then were, mostly, trash, no one want to see others and the expansion is wasted.

[Nerovar]

Cairne could've been in Ardenweald, we see his soul/spirit in the Tauren Heritage Armor Questline though.

That doesn't really mean anything as they simply made this shit up on the fly in Shadowlands. We also see Uther's soul in Legion telling us where to find Tirion Fordring and the Ashbringer at the Broken Shore.

shadowlands is just a big missed opportunity because it was trapped inside danuser personal fanfic.

countless of afterlives and characters death, we only see 4 death places and a few characters, and since all of then were, mostly, trash, no one want to see others and the expansion is wasted.

I mean, they could have made Afterlives that were at least somewhat linked to the actual belief systems of the races we know. Instead they made this.

[Syegfryed]

I mean, they could have made Afterlives that were at least somewhat linked to the actual belief systems of the races we know. Instead they made this.

that is what i mean when i say is all trapped inside a personal fanfic

shadowlands does not seems like it is warcraft because none of the afterlives is actually linked to the races we play. Aderwald and maldraxxus are close, but just rip-off from the emerald dream and the scourge, and we just gloss over the troll afterlife and they made Bwosandi be subservient of the aderwald leader.

We have no personal attachment to the story because the afterlives have nothing to do with our races religion and the characters they pick to portray then were bad, like forcing thrall mom for reasons, most characters are totally out of place there too

[deenman]

I think 7.3 is the definitive end of any credibility WoW storytelling still had.

what?? what??? THAT was the last straw?


sorry but the legion ending compared to wrath/cata/wod was master class storytelling lol

''there must always be a lk'' makes zero sense and was just continuity bait

dragons losing their power and unable to breed came out of nowhere for no actual explanation

''DRAENOR IS FREEEE'' the biggest meme joke in gaming history

[zysis]

I have something to add to this, and well... I'm hoping Blizzard remembers. When you first enter the Shadowlands, you see a massive comet-like thing go into the vortex that is the maw and even your tour-guide says "what is that?!" and you don't hear anymore. It's fairly obvious the giant seed in Ardenweald will be the new world tree for the Elves and the next expac will be the old world remade. It's just transparent marketing at this point; brings classic players to have a look and draws on the many years of players installing World of Warcraft. It's just logic. One of my conjectures is that the giant comet was Saurfang, but it seems unlikely. A friend suggested it may be Deathwing but.. yeah that's a bit off. We were sold the lie that Garrosh was being used as a mana battery in the prequel but nope, never even happened.

There's so many holes in the plot and tropes you'd think it's a patchwerk of writers who have some skill, but no real creativity within the lore itself. Let's face it; Shadowlands is a total rip-off from Dungeons and Dragons and even Sygia comes from the D&D Shadowlands. If you know D&D well enough it's trivial to not only see what is going to happen, but also predict who the giant comet is... The whole thing leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth and I'm barely able to maintain interest in the game, let alone the very poorly written stories it's been spouting since Bolvar didn't resurrect Deathwing to get revenge on Alexstraza like he should have... Perhaps I've said too much.

Blizzard writers have the creativity of a banker; they only seek to make money. It's not about good story telling or even entertainment. It's just all about drawing a crowd and treating the consumer as dullards.

[Alanar]

Oh my god. Did you read what it says? It says fel magic is fueled by drawing life from living beings and consuming their souls. That doesn't mean that anyone killed by fel magic automatically has their soul destroyed. It means the fel magic Gul'dan used to destroy Varian was fueled by the souls of others. Similar to how Gul'dan operates the Dark Portal in the Warcraft movie, by sucking the souls out of the Draenei. Souls are fuel.

Did you see Gul'dan suck Varian's soul out?

You can see varian litterally break.. lots of fel cracks and slowly blown up. Are you really playing stupid here? The cutscene from legion is the source. I think we are pretty sure hes gone. Dead. Out.

[kizcrew]

You can see varian litterally break.. lots of fel cracks and slowly blown up. Are you really playing stupid here? The cutscene from legion is the source. I think we are pretty sure hes gone. Dead. Out.

That's his body. Of course he's dead. We're talking about his soul.

[Aydinx2]

That's his body. Of course he's dead. We're talking about his soul.

Fel magic burns up souls. We don't know 100% that Varian's Soul still exists, but based on existing lore it should be completely burned away.

[Triceron]

No, it's not. It 's especially improbable considering he is an important character, and they're not gonna burn any bridges on that.

Sounds like you're just unable to cope with the established lore that his soul is very likely and very probably destroyed.

And he was an important character. His arc ended in Legion, and his legacy lives on through others who carry on his memory. Having been an important character does not necessitate being brought back into the lore. Look at Lothar; no appearance in WoW and he was way more important than Varian ever was. Lothar was a direct descendant of Thoradin, the last of his bloodline.

[Romanthony]

Varian was dusted, So perhaps his Soul was Tainted. Saurfang, most likely, was sent to the jailer, as fuel, as for Rastakhan hes most likely, in the care of Bwonsamdi right now, since hes taking care of almost all Troll spirits, and Dont forget Rastakhan made a pact with him, so hed keep his soul very close

[kizcrew]

Fel magic burns up souls. We don't know 100% that Varian's Soul still exists, but based on existing lore it should be completely burned away.

No.

Sounds like you're just unable to cope with the established lore that his soul is very likely and very probably destroyed.

Nowhere has Blizzard stated that. This is your own headcanon.

[Triceron]

Nowhere has Blizzard stated that. This is your own headcanon.

Fel destroys souls, it is known.

Whether Varian's is destroyed? His Azerothian soul may very well have been. As for future appearances? Would likely be through multiverse shenanigans.

[Aleksej89]

after what the writing team has done with the currently active characters i am not sure i want to see them use any more/other characters.

[kizcrew]

Fel destroys souls, it is known.

It uses souls as fuel, but it doesn't automatically have to. Nowhere does it say that whoever is attacked by fel magic automatically has their soul destroyed.

[Triceron]

It uses souls as fuel, but it doesn't automatically have to. Nowhere does it say that whoever is attacked by fel magic automatically has their soul destroyed.

You aren't listening.

Fel destroys souls. It is known.

When a soul is devoured by fel energies, it produces more fel and is utterly destroyed in the process

Gul'dan wasn't just sourcing souls to create fel magic, he was using it as a means to engulf Varian's. That is what happens when a mortal is completely consumed by fel magic, which is what happened to Varian, and conversely what happened to AU Gul'dan as well.

Whether the soul is a combined thing of all multiverse and how Fel affects that all is still very much unknown. So yes, they could bring back Varian in some way, but it'd very likely be some AU version and not the one we know of. Otherwise, they're going to be retconning what we know of Varian and Fel magic in order to tell whatever story they want to tell. Which could be possible, considering they forget the rules of their own lore all the time.


And I'll make one more point here;

Blizzard has purposefully concluded Varian's arc, and seemingly is not wanting to continue it. They chose to kill the character off in a lore-driven way that is more than permanent, to our knowledge. They chose to blow up his body. With Fel magic. That is irreversible by Holy magic, by Nature magic, even by Necromancy. As far as we know, you can't bring him back from something like this.

If they intended to carry Varian through into the afterlife, they could have easily chosen any number of method of killing him off, like so many other characters in the franchise. Illidan wasn't killed by Fel magic. Nor was Arthas. Or Vol'jin. Or even Bol'var. Cut, stabbed, poisoned, burned alive; none of this was death by exploding a body through fel magic. And we know Fel magic used in this way is capable of utterly consuming a soul. So in Blizzard's choice to have Varian dramatically die in this fashion tells the audience that they're done with his character, in the most irreversible way that can be considered in the Warcraft universe. Otherwise they could have just had him die in any number of ways that has his soul intact, like how Vol'jin or Tirion died in that same battle.

We wouldn't have this conversation if not for all the lore that Blizzard has created to explain how Fel magic utterly consumes Souls.

[StationaryHawk]

No.

Some strong arguments coming out here.

Personally, I don't see the need. Varian and Saurfang's arcs are concluded. Rastakhan would be overshadowed by Bwonsamdi. Cairne's soul has not yet moved on from Azeroth.

[Raetary]

They turned Saurfang into a trinket that drops from the Sylvanas encounter.

[Eggroll]

Varian was destroyed by Fel magic, which utterly destroys one's soul.

To be honest I don't give a fk, they retconned so much lore, they could do that, too.

Varian would probably be the one who could bring Anduin back to his senses.
Or Tiffin, his mother.

[Alanar]

That's his body. Of course he's dead. We're talking about his soul.

Ye, I figured. But with what we know of fel magic, how it looked and how it felt like a real sendoff, I think we are safe to assume hes gone.

He might show up as a memory or something like that, but if hes not appearing in 9.2, we are atleast safe to say he didn't make it to the Shadowlands. But blizz will be blizz if we don't find some fell/cracked varian somewhere in the twsiting nether in couple years >.>