The Brexit aftermath thread

[Huehuecoyotl]

Average home owner is £100k better off today vs the date of the Brexit referendum.

I can't believe I need to remind you of this again, but the "value" of a home is utterly irrelevant if you need to live in it. Because the value of a house is, in real terms, one house. The only time the notional value becomes important is if you're treating a property as an investment. And that's only relevant to people who own more than one.

So you're cheering on that the landlords of the country are doing well out of this. Which isn't going to be great news for the 90%+ of us that aren't in that bracket.

Many of those real Brexit benefits of course are linked to employment, the unemployed cant buy a house, invest in the stock market etc.

Quite a lot of the employed can't buy a house either, because they're too expensive. In the 1990s I bought a house that was 3.5 times my salary. I've done very well for myself since, and my current salary is considerably over double the national average. Today 3.5 times my salary just about gets a bedsit in my city. If I were on the equivalent of 3.5 times my 1990s salary, it would barely buy half of one.

As for investing, most people can't. Because the cost of living squeeze that Brexit is causing, as well as the energy prices that Brexit has worsened, have left people with precious little money for anything but rent, food and heating. And often they are having to make choices between food and heating.

So you can repeat your lies about how wonderful Brexit is as much as you like. The rest of us living in the real world can see what's happening to the country, and the polls highlight that an increasing majority of people recognise how shit Brexit is making it. And as the new import duties bite and increase food prices still further, Brexit popularity will drop further. Not that it has much further to drop at this point.

I'm wondering what will happen when the reality is too obvious for even you to ignore. Will you still come on here and hold your hands up? Or will you just slink off and try and pretend you were never an apologist for one of the stupidest ideas in history? I reckon I can predict which it will be.

[dribbles]

I can't believe I need to remind you of this again, but the "value" of a home is utterly irrelevant if you need to live in it. Because the value of a house is, in real terms, one house. The only time the notional value becomes important is if you're treating a property as an investment. And that's only relevant to people who own more than one.

So you're cheering on that the landlords of the country are doing well out of this. Which isn't going to be great news for the 90%+ of us that aren't in that bracket.



Quite a lot of the employed can't buy a house either, because they're too expensive. In the 1990s I bought a house that was 3.5 times my salary. I've done very well for myself since, and my current salary is considerably over double the national average. Today 3.5 times my salary just about gets a bedsit in my city. If I were on the equivalent of 3.5 times my 1990s salary, it would barely buy half of one.

As for investing, most people can't. Because the cost of living squeeze that Brexit is causing, as well as the energy prices that Brexit has worsened, have left people with precious little money for anything but rent, food and heating. And often they are having to make choices between food and heating.

So you can repeat your lies about how wonderful Brexit is as much as you like. The rest of us living in the real world can see what's happening to the country, and the polls highlight that an increasing majority of people recognise how shit Brexit is making it. And as the new import duties bite and increase food prices still further, Brexit popularity will drop further. Not that it has much further to drop at this point.

I'm wondering what will happen when the reality is too obvious for even you to ignore. Will you still come on here and hold your hands up? Or will you just slink off and try and pretend you were never an apologist for one of the stupidest ideas in history? I reckon I can predict which it will be.

You can't blame the "cost of living squeeze", or global energy prices, on Brexit.

The EU wide inflation rate is as high if not higher than the UK, how did Brexit cause that? The inflation rate in the US is almost 7% how did Brexit cause that? You are taking global problems and trying to pin them on Brexit when it has nothing to do with Brexit. The same way you did it with empty supermarket shelves, you know Australia have empty supermarket shelves right now, is that the fault of Brexit too? You were wrong then and are now.

It's desperate project fear anti-Brexit scare tactics by the small minority that didn't work for the Brexit referendum in 2016 and will not work now in 2022.

[Crispin]

I like how “positives” like rising house prices (which is also happening in EU countries) are brexit benefits.. low employment rates which however are even lower in several EU countries is a brexit benefit.

However rising energy prices is a “happens everywhere” which is true, but the arbitrary benefits Dribbles point out, are just hilarious.

I havent seen one benefit posted on the last few pages that is due to brexit, except dribbles xenophobic “benefit” of the “more EU citizens questioned at border”, if you call that a benefit. The same is true for british nationals entering France, I doubt brits traveling to the EU, having to go through that queue, enjoy the extra hassle.

You’re pointing out “benefits” that some EU countries do better, and have nada to do with brexit.

[Azhran]

I like how “positives” like rising house prices (which is also happening in EU countries) are brexit benefits.. low employment rates which however are even lower in several EU countries is a brexit benefit.

However rising energy prices is a “happens everywhere” which is true, but the arbitrary benefits Dribbles point out, are just hilarious.

I havent seen one benefit posted on the last few pages that is due to brexit, except dribbles xenophobic “benefit” of the “more EU citizens questioned at border”, if you call that a benefit. The same is true for british nationals entering France, I doubt brits traveling to the EU, having to go through that queue, enjoy the extra hassle.

You’re pointing out “benefits” that some EU countries do better, and have nada to do with brexit.

It's because he's clearly just trolling. He's not here to actually discuss anything and the fact that he's allowed to blatantly shitpost is mindboggling.

[Huehuecoyotl]

You can't blame the "cost of living squeeze", or global energy prices, on Brexit.

The EU wide inflation rate is as high if not higher than the UK, how did Brexit cause that? The inflation rate in the US is almost 7% how did Brexit cause that? You are taking global problems and trying to pin them on Brexit when it has nothing to do with Brexit. The same way you did it with empty supermarket shelves, you know Australia have empty supermarket shelves right now, is that the fault of Brexit too? You were wrong then and are now.

It's desperate project fear anti-Brexit scare tactics by the small minority that didn't work for the Brexit referendum in 2016 and will not work now in 2022.

Inflation has been worsened by Brexit. Energy price increases have been worsened by Brexit. We've linked details of both of these in this thread already. As well as not reading your own links, do you not even read the thread you're posting in?

As for house prices, feel free to explain how those increases are linked to Brexit. I'll wait, since you seem to have decided to take a little holiday again.

You're projecting again, by the way, when you attempt to blame us for lying or scare tactics. Both of those were what the Leave campaign did in 2016. Remember Turkey joining the EU? Remember hordes of immigrants descending on the country? Remember the £350m on the bus? Brexiteers do nothing but lie and deceive; it's just that now you're having to ignore reality to try and continue those lies.

It won't work.

[Slant]

You can't blame the "cost of living squeeze", or global energy prices, on Brexit.

The EU wide inflation rate is as high if not higher than the UK, how did Brexit cause that? The inflation rate in the US is almost 7% how did Brexit cause that? You are taking global problems and trying to pin them on Brexit when it has nothing to do with Brexit. The same way you did it with empty supermarket shelves, you know Australia have empty supermarket shelves right now, is that the fault of Brexit too? You were wrong then and are now.

It's desperate project fear anti-Brexit scare tactics by the small minority that didn't work for the Brexit referendum in 2016 and will not work now in 2022.

I'm on my break, pretty bored and thought I'd drop in to see what today's bullshit was. Surely I was not disappointed, but this is a rare gem, even for me...

So, Dribs in this post is clearly deflecting the cost of living in the UK rising to "global energy prices". Then proceeds to throw in this week's buzzphrase, which is inflation, yadda yadda... but what made me sit up in my chair is that not too long ago, he made this post:

The EU Gas scheme by definition is ceding control of European energy supplies to Russia. And as we have seen demonstrated the EU have very little control over the whims of Putin if they want to stay warm this winter. As the EU are finding out it is do as he says, or shiver. No thank you, a brexit benefit means we keep more control of our energy supplies and don't have to toe the EU line.

And why would you support a VAT cut on UK energy costs? I mean thanks very much, I'm not in the position to worry about heating or eating costs but I'll take the extra dosh as a Brexit bonus and put it towards the Waitrose weekly shop.

I'd prefer any energy tax cuts you highlight, a Brexit benefit made possible by not having to pay massive contributions into the EU, to be targeted at the poor.

And I think that is the caring Conservatives current policy. Why knock that?

The reason I'm interested in this isn't even to refute Dribbles, but this is a perfect example of how he operates. He'll happily take one thing "energy prices" and blame the EU for it in one post, but when the same thing affects the UK, he'll say it's a global issue and clearly Brexit isn't responsible.

This is pure, unadulterated bullshit flamebaiting, this is his MO. Deflect, claim the opposite and make up random stuff, then link whatever website seems to support his point of view just even remotely and cite it as a "source" and then dump a whole lot of aggravating fantasy claims into one post.

It's rare that he flips 180° on what he said earlier this close together, so we're lucky to observe this happening because while he's constantly doing this, typically most people are too lazy to go back and look the earlier post up. I just happened to remember it was not too many pages ago.

His game is up, clear contradiction. I declare my personal game of wits won. It's been a few years, but I knew at some point he'd fuck up his trolling. Good game, though. Got people wondering about you for quite a bit.

We can all rest in the peace of the knowledge that this is just a long con type deal for him. If I was running this shitshow, he'd be permabanned by now. Alas, it isn't...

[Fuiking]

I'm on my break, pretty bored and thought I'd drop in to see what today's bullshit was. Surely I was not disappointed, but this is a rare gem, even for me...

So, Dribs in this post is clearly deflecting the cost of living in the UK rising to "global energy prices". Then proceeds to throw in this week's buzzphrase, which is inflation, yadda yadda... but what made me sit up in my chair is that not too long ago, he made this post:



The reason I'm interested in this isn't even to refute Dribbles, but this is a perfect example of how he operates. He'll happily take one thing "energy prices" and blame the EU for it in one post, but when the same thing affects the UK, he'll say it's a global issue and clearly Brexit isn't responsible.

This is pure, unadulterated bullshit flamebaiting, this is his MO. Deflect, claim the opposite and make up random stuff, then link whatever website seems to support his point of view just even remotely and cite it as a "source" and then dump a whole lot of aggravating fantasy claims into one post.

It's rare that he flips 180° on what he said earlier this close together, so we're lucky to observe this happening because while he's constantly doing this, typically most people are too lazy to go back and look the earlier post up. I just happened to remember it was not too many pages ago.

His game is up, clear contradiction. I declare my personal game of wits won. It's been a few years, but I knew at some point he'd fuck up his trolling. Good game, though. Got people wondering about you for quite a bit.

We can all rest in the peace of the knowledge that this is just a long con type deal for him. If I was running this shitshow, he'd be permabanned by now. Alas, it isn't...

He would have been permabanned a few years if it was us.. but alas, those are dreams and regrets.

[Huehuecoyotl]

That sound you can hear is another of dribbles "Brexit benefits" crashing to the ground.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...ployment-covid

Yes, the notion that Brexit will help British people out by improving their wages appears to be floundering. Real terms wages dropping again, due in no small part to the very high levels of inflation that Brexit has helped to cause. And which is likely to get even worse in the months to come.

So I think we're still stuck at zero actual benefits to Brexit. But it is hard to keep count; there have been so many debunked recently that it feels like that number should be in negative territory now!

The number of negative impacts for Brexit was closing in on 500 last time I looked. No wonder Brexit is now becoming so unpopular.

[Vankrys]

Except our economy is not going down the swanny. All of the following indicate the same..

FTSE100 is 20% higher today than in the week of the Brexit EU referendum.

Funny you mentioned the FTSE. Like every other country, it took a hit in march 2020, when the pandemic hit, but unlike other countries, it has not yet recovered to pre-pandemics levels, unlike say Germany's DAX or France's CAC40.
Gee, i wonder what differentiate Germany and France from the UK?

[Huehuecoyotl]

Just for those people that think Brexit is over:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-60062376

Well would you look at that; the people trying to run the port of Dover are concerned that when biometic checks are introduced in September of this year, they will result in "unsafe" conditions for truck drivers, as well as massive tailbacks.

It's amazing how much even people like me (who apparently know nothing about Brexit) can pick up about the impact of Brexit if we just look around a bit.

@Pann, feel free to join in with the discussions here. You can give us all the benefit of your amazing stack of knowledge about Brexit and educate all of us that "know nothing" at the same time.

[Huehuecoyotl]

And in the seemingly never ending series of "tales of Brexit being badly mismanaged".....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...n-eu-countries

It's starting to feel like the bunch of Brexiteers running this country are literally incapable of organising anything except parties.

[Zaydin]

And in the seemingly never ending series of "tales of Brexit being badly mismanaged".....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...n-eu-countries

It's starting to feel like the bunch of Brexiteers running this country are literally incapable of organising anything except parties.

Didn't Brexiteers lie and claim Brexit would reduce red tape and streamline things?

[Huehuecoyotl]

Didn't Brexiteers lie?

Funny you should ask, but yes. Yes they did. Repeatedly. Oh wait, you were asking about something specific?

Didn't Brexiteers lie and claim Brexit would reduce red tape and streamline things?

Yes, they did say that. That it would bring down costs of doing business by allowing them to get rid of red tape. So that we'd get cheaper food and everything. Needless to say, red tape has increased. Costs to Businesses have increased. Costs to consumers are continuing to increase.

Pretty much everything that Brexiteers said would be improved has been made worse. Brexit; a stupid idea, voted for by the ignorant, implemented by the incompetent. It's turning out pretty much as everyone with a functioning brain said it would.

[Zaydin]

Funny you should ask, but yes. Yes they did. Repeatedly. Oh wait, you were asking about something specific?

Oh I know they lie. Brexiteers are cut from the same cloth as Trump and his cult; they will lie about anything they think will get them support and bank on their base not being smart enough to ever figure out they were lied to.

They will also never admit to lying no matter how blatant it was that they lied or how often they get called out on it.

[Mihalik]

Pretty much everything that Brexiteers said would be improved has been made worse. Brexit; a stupid idea, voted for by the ignorant, implemented by the incompetent. It's turning out pretty much as everyone with a functioning brain said it would.

The thing is.... It really didn't need to be this big of fiasco.

The UK could have always went down the Switzerland /Norway route.

In any world Brexit is a self goal. But it didn't need to be a fiasco.

You cannot in fact have your cake and eat it too.

[Muzjhath]

The thing is.... It really didn't need to be this big of fiasco.

The UK could have always went down the Switzerland /Norway route.

In any world Brexit is a self goal. But it didn't need to be a fiasco.

You cannot in fact have your cake and eat it too.

On the bold, absolutely they could have. However, for the zealous part of the Brexit base that was absolutely impossible. As it'd give up more power to EU than they gained. Sure they'd probably be able to sell it, but it wasn't what they wanted.
The Conservative Bloc of English Foreign Policy still seem to hold to what was English foreign goal for 500 years. "Keep Europe Divided". The Yes Minister skit for why they joined the "European Co-operation" is prime meat for this. They joined it to ruin it. Then it didn't work, so that segment of UK conservative thinking wanted out.

-This is far more complicated and has lots of other threads, but this is part of it in the background of a lot of "traditionalist" Tory minds. That then also got wrapped up with selfish aggradizement or profiteering.

[Armael]

This is American politics too. The Left can pass something that the Right doesn't like, then they'll chip away at aspects of it and they later say, see I told it sucks/failed!

[DingDongKing]

Steve Baker is an interesting cat. There's a lot I agree with him on, and a LOT I completely disagree with him on.

It's funny watching him make Steven Edginton look like the complete fuckwad that he is.

[Gorsameth]

The thing is.... It really didn't need to be this big of fiasco.

The UK could have always went down the Switzerland /Norway route.

In any world Brexit is a self goal. But it didn't need to be a fiasco.

You cannot in fact have your cake and eat it too.

The Norway route was always a stupid option, imo even more stupid then actually leaving. They would still effectively have been part of the EU and EU regulations without having any say in said regulations, it would be giving up your special preference seat at the table for completely nothing. At least with actually leaving entirely the UK is technically 'free' in so far as an island with its only real connection being to the EU can be said to be free.

[Huehuecoyotl]

The Norway route was always a stupid option, imo even more stupid then actually leaving. They would still effectively have been part of the EU and EU regulations without having any say in said regulations, it would be giving up your special preference seat at the table for completely nothing. At least with actually leaving entirely the UK is technically 'free' in so far as an island with its only real connection being to the EU can be said to be free.

That's the point about Brexit; it was a choice between the Norway route (giving up our say in making the rules, while still abiding by them to keep the open trade) and the route we went (stop having to abide by the rules and give up the open trade). Neither of those were good options for the country.

But the Brexit vote was won by people lying and saying we'd have an option that meant we wouldn't have to abide by the rules, but we'd be able to keep the open trade. Which might have been a decent option, but it was pure fantasy. It literally wasn't ever going to happen. Which is one more reason why the way that the 2016 vote was set up by Cameron was so stupid; it was a vote between a defined, tangible thing on one side (staying in the EU) and whatever the Russian funded Leave campaign wanted to say on the other side. They threw enough lies out (even if they contradicted each other) that all the different groups that might have voted to leave had something they thought would be good for them.

The Remain campaign pointed out the lies, and the contradictions, and how it would actually work in practice, and it was all handwaved away as "Project Fear". Which as we know is now called "Project We Fucking Told You So You Ignorant Lying Cunts".