Shadowlands -- Is it the worst expansion?

[Sluvs]

do you forget wod both introduced timeline fuckery, and the legion being across all timelines, and also ALL demons dying not mattering, and that fuckery, oh and DRAENOR IS FREEEEE

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challenge modes were pandaria not wod, wod had them aswell but it didnt "introduce" it.

I most certainly did not. But the damage that Shadowlands has dealt upon the lore of the game is way worse IMHO.

While draenor was wacky and introduced timeline fuckery, shadowlands disrespected lore to an enormous degree, and , unlike WoD, its consequences cannot be ignored. Just listing of the top of my head:

-Made all religions that are not elune pointless with the unveiling of the afterlife.
-Destroyed by association the arthas storyline.
-Destroyed the Sylvannas storyline.
-Tried to pin every possible plotline in the jailer
-Created a bunch of lore out of thin air that I would argue that you simply CANT rollback.

And I just know there is more. But amongst all of it, unveilling the afterlife was its biggest mistake.

Ofc this is just my opinion, but the way I see it, the damage Shadowland done to the lore will outlast it.

[deviantcultist]

No, gameplay wise it had more content than WoD and Cataclysm and better systems than BFA. BFA had worse lore consequences by a laughably large margin, TBC was more poorly told.

I'd say this is the most realistic take on things.

[Niwes]

yes, ofc!
SL is imo, without ANY doubt, the worst xpac ever.
heck, just the absurdity of the story alone makes SL unreachable.
imo WoD (in all perspectives) was factor 10 better than SL.

yes WoD had low content. but

1) had WoD really that less content than SL?
2) was the content WoD had, worse in quality than SL content?
3) was PvP in WoD worse than in SL?
4) was Tanaan worse than Korthia or ZM?
5) was the WoD raids worse than SL raids?
6) was the WoD dungeons worse than SL dungeons?
7) was the WoD leveling experience worse than in SL?
8) was the WoD story worse than SL story?
9) was the WoD immersion worse than in SL?
10) was the classes and gameplay in WoD worse than in SL?
11) was WoD less alt-friendly than SL (in regards to SL „systems“)?

i for myself can, at maximum, say „maybe-yes“ to point 1) and/or point 10) („WoD ability pruning“). all other points i can not really say „yes“ without some doubt.

idk. all in all i have zero chance for myself to say WoD was worse than SL. but thats just me.

[Archmage Xaxxas]

BFA:
I loved Kul Tiras and Zandalar, all 6 zones.
SL:
I loved Ardenweald. Bastion and Revendreth are really cool.

BFA:
I loved Island Expeditions, played them for fun and got Azerite as a bonus.
SL:
I really am entirely burnt out from Torghast after 9.0, I never want to go in there again if I can help it, but -have- to if I want to get my 9.2 main a 235. (got my 9.0 main one)

BFA:
I really enjoyed Warfronts, and even moreso the outdoor questing content of revamped Arathi Highlands and Darkshore.
SL:
The Maw might just take the cake for my least favorite zone in the game. I'd pretty much rather be anywhere else. Unless I'm in Torghast, then I'd rather be in the Maw.

BFA:
I actively readied and played through parts of, if not most of all of the raids. Uldir I loved, Battle for Dazar'alor was amazing to me, Crucible was really cool, Eternal Palace was aight, and Nyalotha had some great fights, like Wrathion.
SL:
I've done Castle Nathria on normal, and was tired of the aesthetic before I entered- due to having ground Halls of Atonement and Sanguine Depths many a time already. I have not touched even LFR of Sanctum of Domination, and have never wanted to not enter a raid more in any expansion previous. You can probably take a guess why..

Sepulcher I kind of want to do, it's quite pretty inside, but having seen the raid finale at this point, am not as jazzed on the idea.

BFA:
Azerite gear was a minor annoyance, but also granted some very flavorful spell effects. I had one that had my Troll Hunter running to a Bwonsamdi that would appear for a buff. Easy enough to obtain, and just had to deal with the rng of effects.
SL:
Legendaries.. Well, I like this crafting idea a lot in theory- putting it in the hands of the megarich community was just shortsighted. I've never wanted or needed more than 200k until Blizzard made it necessary to have far exceeding that.
And if I want to use this expansion feature, I have to keep doing Torghast too.. my god.. Dumping my gold away and wasting my time in my least favorite place, all for a number. Talk about sapping fun.

BFA:
The Heart of Azeroth essences were really cool when added, and I enjoyed the whole system upgrading those through quests with Wrathion and Magni.
SL:
The Covenant abilities are pretty neat for some specs, dull for others. Upgrading is linked to the Legendary ability and Conduits, not as fun as questing for me.

Edit: Eternity's End/Zereth Mortis > Visions of Nzoth/Uldum-Vale absolutely though.


Thing is, I really realllly dug BFA. Leveled a lot of Allied Race alts and collected stuff, played both factions War Campaigns, just felt like good old time spent in Azeroth. Just using it as my comparison since many regard it as the 'worst' before SL.

Shadowlands feels like a passing wave of a story that I'm making sure my number is up to speed with, and the whole shabang will just disappear like raid loot from the previous tier come 10.0.

[Amnaught]

Anyone who thinks Shadowlands is the worst expansion obviously didn't play Warlords of Draenor.

[ZazuuPriest]

I feel like everyone has this weird blindness where they forget that Blizzard adds things from each expansions "systems" to the base class? Like Druids will probably get Convoke as a talent, replacing one of the garbage talents that currently go unused.

name a time they did this and didn't gut the ability and make it useless as a talent. Wake of Ashes is the exception, Consumption is the rule.

[Amnaught]

I kind of agree with you but then I keep thinking of how bad I find Shadowlands lore/story.

And you felt Warlords of Draenor wasn't a terrible story?

WoD's lore was worse. Not even an argument. At least there was a cinematic explaining why Sylvanas was suddenly on our side. Grommash got literally nothing, we were there specifically to kill him and the other warlords, then Tanaan happened and ummm uhhhhhhhhh.....

[Teekey]

The fact Yes is winning is nothing but extreme recency bias.

[Niwes]

Anyone who thinks Shadowlands is the worst expansion obviously didn't play Warlords of Draenor.

i played WoD (a lot, as every xpac).
i played SL (a lot, as every xpac).
i would never never ever rate SL over WoD.

and now?

[reanimatez]

Story-wise it's the worst. Gameplay-wise, it's probably the worst overall, but BFA 8.3 is the absolute worst u can get.

[FelPlague]

Garrisons and Shipyard kept me logging in and doing things daily way more than my covenant --- as did hunting achievements for new followers, and exploring for treasures.

Also, making gold off the garrison ensured it was the first expansion that I actually leveled alts for every single class to cap.

Also, the questing content was much better.

Also, Blackrock Foundry is one of the best raids in the entire game.

Also, Challenge Modes were fun in WoD.

Nothing from SL is memorable except for how bad it is.

I still choose WoD for leveling new alts just to roll that steam tank/demolisher across Nagrand.

"exploring for treasures" all the tresures were 1 time, you got them you were done... shadowlands has just that, but many that respawn

questing content better? so much better most people skipped it and just farmed treasures+bonus objectives.

Challenge modes were fun in wod? ehhhh i mean they were worse then they were in mop...

Nothing from Sl is memorable? Torghast? the amazing raids? The amazing dungeons? M+? Solo shuffle? Merc mode? Cross faction? (incoming)

also lol the steam tank was the worse option for nagrand power.

[Amnaught]

i played WoD (a lot, as every xpac).
i played SL (a lot, as every xpac).
i would never never ever rate SL over WoD.

and now?

I'm extremely interested in why that is. It shat on Timeline and Argus lore, gave us fake alternate characters we were supposed to care about but that didnt actually matter at all (Velen sacrificed himself oh noooooo... Jk), villains switched sides mid expansion with no explanation, garrisons were antisocial, Ashran was a pain, Apexis bs was trash, the ships were hyped up but just another mission table, SELFIE patch.....

Literally the only good things ti come from WoD were the updated player models and Gladiator stance. At least we kept the models.

[Souflikar]

SL: huge content drought, bad systems, destroyed the lore, terrible storyline. Unsubscribed after the jailer cinematic. So yes, for me personally, SL is the absolute worst.

[FelPlague]

I most certainly did not. But the damage that Shadowlands has dealt upon the lore of the game is way worse IMHO.

While draenor was wacky and introduced timeline fuckery, shadowlands disrespected lore to an enormous degree, and , unlike WoD, its consequences cannot be ignored. Just listing of the top of my head:

-Made all religions that are not elune pointless with the unveiling of the afterlife.
-Destroyed by association the arthas storyline.
-Destroyed the Sylvannas storyline.
-Tried to pin every possible plotline in the jailer
-Created a bunch of lore out of thin air that I would argue that you simply CANT rollback.

And I just know there is more. But amongst all of it, unveilling the afterlife was its biggest mistake.

Ofc this is just my opinion, but the way I see it, the damage Shadowland done to the lore will outlast it.

unlike WoD, its consequences cannot be ignored.


AGAIN you seem to have forgotten THE ABSOLUTE FUCKERY IT INTRODUCED

The legion somehow is over all realities, but somehow only has 1 of each person, and has not raised infinite armies from infinite realities, even though this makes them literally the infinite dragonflight we thought were literally impossible to defeat if they were able to succeed in their goal, aswell as the fact this made literally nothing matter
that demons regenerate, completly undoing all prior demon deaths, making these huge story moments like killing archimonde mean LITERALLY NOTHING as oh hey they are alive again.
and this even ruined the whole dreadlord storyline of warcraft 3.

This made all timelines literally pointless and the legion make zero sense
destroyed by association the illidan storyline
destroyed by association the malfurion storyline
destroyed by association the Sargeras storyline
destroyed by association the Kiljaden storyline
destroyed by association the Velen storyline
destroyed by association the Archimonde storyline
destroyed by association the War of the ancients storyline
destroyed by association the First war storyline
destroyed by association the Malorne storyline
destroyed by association the Orc storyline
destroyed by association the Draenei storyline
destroyed by association the Bronze Dragonflight storyline
destroyed by association the Garrosh storyline
Created a bunch of lore out of thing air that YOU CANNOT ROLLBACK - demons dont die they regen, legion is ABOVE ALL REALITIES

[fazaim]

Of course it is ... going by the only relevant measure, how much stuff is there to do.

All the other measures are just whinging about the colour of the car, not about the car itself.

What the actual you on about... Shadowlands doesn't have much to do, rather it's got a lot of low-impact unpleasant chores to do BEFORE doing your preferred activity. Months upon months of these chores aren't forgotten simply because 9.2 has a few catch-up mechanics, I've still had to play through those things.

Legion 14 dungeons, magetower, 5 raids, RBG and arena.
BfA 11 dungeons, 5 raids, RBG and arena.
Shadowlands 9 dungeons, choregast, 3 raids, RBG and arena.

Any quest hub from any expansion have been more pleasant than both Korthia and the Maw.
Magetower will still go under Legion feature, just as any other dungeon within timewalking goes to their expansion.
And we haven't even talked about accessibility to this content or the shitty fucking fact that you got a hundred Alt+F4 moments as you're CC'd for up to 2 minutes watching ridiculous lore play out during the several campaigns.

[Magnagarde]

Anyone who thinks Shadowlands is the worst expansion obviously didn't play Warlords of Draenor.

The only things that make Shadowlands playable are the features that came with Legion and these are M+, world quests, paragon farming, "timewalking" mage tower and a few others that keep various types of players tied to the game. If WoD had all of this, it would have been a much better recieved expansion overall.

Shadowlands is capitalizing on all the features brought in with Legion and they're the only ones that keep it somewhat playable. On top of that, Shadowlands managed to take some of the most iconic characters and one of the most anticipated settings - the realm of death - and still undeperformed in terms of story. The accessibility of the endgame instanced content is a problem of its own; Shadowlands actively fights the player in order to not engage him with endgame instanced content.

[LostSinclair]

Yes, absolutely the worse out of all the bad expansions. Cataclysm is only remembered negatively for it's lack luster final raid/patch but other than that it was fairly decent. WoD was actually great... until we rammed into the longest content drought ever because they gutted the expansion to put more eggs into Legion's basket. And BFA while a hot mess was a fun one. Mechagon was better than Korthia, Nazjatar, old god invasions. For every gripe there was something fun to balance it out. Shadowlands is a failure across the board except for Art and music.

[Caerrona]

nah it is by far not the worst expansion, anyone that thinks this is blinded by either biased hatred or extreme nostalgia.

[arkanon]

Obviously going to be a pretty heavily biased result - the majority of people on this site are still actively playing the game - they obviously still enjoy it and think its good enough for their money, so they are HIGHLY unlikely to say its the worst expansion ever, because they would have to ask themselves why they are still playing.

[Khaza-R]

Toss up for me between Shadowlands and WoD.

But I guess I can at least see some potential in WoD had they not cut content starting back in the beta.

While Shadowlands, its really hard for me to see the potential in this expansion. The few things it did bother to innovate like Covenants and Torghast were ruined by bad design choices. Storywise its also one of the most abysmal pieces of trash ever written.