SPOILERS Post Judgement NPC Dialogue

[uuuhname]

Post modernist writers do not believe in values, morality, or evil. They believe in moral relativism and "let bygones be bygones!".

not enough tears, needs more teary sophistry if you really want to channel JBP my dude.

[Powerogue]

Honestly people anti-hyped me up so much I think they handled it about as well as they could have given the story that lead up to it.

Except I was absolutely on my knees begging for an alternate ending where instead of Sylvanas jumping, she is kicked.



Guess I'll have to settle for this:

https://makanidotdot.tumblr.com/post...38080/epilogue



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So when are we kicking out Lor'Themar, Baine and Gallywix? You know, since they actively helped her (both at Teldrassil and Undercity) and continued to aid her until the very last moment?

Gallywix jumped ship at the end of BFA, burning all the evidence of his wrongdoings on the way out. I'm banking on him war profiteering. How else did it seem like everyone and their mother had azerite weaponry?



Edit: On another note, holy shit, my sig came true.

[Kallisto]

I mean... we all know it wouldn't have though, if Genn hadn't tried to attack Sylv in Legion then the Jailor would've just had MORE val'kyr and Vrykul souls.

Blizz made it an objectively good thing that he stopped her with that lantern BS.

Genn's actions threw Sylvanas fully in with the jailer. The story pretty much states that she wasn't on board until the start of BFA and the use of Valkyrs was to bring more dead back to undeath with more fresh looking bodies like Nathanos (This would keep souls AWAY from the jailer).

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JUDGING PEOPLE IS YOUR ENTIRE JOB NOW PELAGOS, SHE IS NOT THE ONLY GENOCIDAL DICTATOR THAT YOU WILL HAVE TO JUDGE

So her innocent soul should be judged as guilty for something the Banshee Queen did. If you followed Wrath lore you'd know they're two completely different people, this whole "Hurr durr retcon." is to be ignored. Either it needs to be taken out of the game or we know that Uther in Frostmourne and Uther in bastion are 2 completely unique people at time of split and thus one part of split soul can not be judged for actions of other half in any fair justice system.

The Sylvanas that did the genocides died at the end of Sanctom raid. What is left is essentially a new person and can not be guilty of actions of another.

[Aresk]

Well his meeting with his dad during the heritage chain doesn't make sense, his dad had him spare a bunch of evil maw spirits hunting ghosts in the material world for anima, we kinda... need to know what was up with that?

It's a fair argument that there's an untouched plot thread there that we just assume gets resolved off-screen in Shadowlands, but I feel like Cairne and Baine got to say their farewells there (complete with Baine getting reprimanded for his bloodthirsty butchery of the spirits by his father).

[Skytotem]

Genn's actions threw Sylvanas fully in with the jailer. The story pretty much states that she wasn't on board until the start of BFA and the use of Valkyrs was to bring more dead back to undeath with more fresh looking bodies like Nathanos (This would keep souls AWAY from the jailer).

So her innocent soul should be judged as guilty for something the Banshee Queen did. If you followed Wrath lore you'd know they're two completely different people, this whole "Hurr durr retcon." is to be ignored. Either it needs to be taken out of the game or we know that Uther in Frostmourne and Uther in bastion are 2 completely unique people at time of split and thus one part of split soul can not be judged for actions of other half in any fair justice system.

The Sylvanas that did the genocides died at the end of Sanctom raid. What is left is essentially a new person and can not be guilty of actions of another.

1. She was in the minute the sword hit. Genn had nothing to do with it. And the book says they were going to use Eyir to channel souls meant for the Halls of Valor to the Maw.

2. This is ignoring how Sylvanas herself has characterized it.

[Aresk]

Genn's actions threw Sylvanas fully in with the jailer. The story pretty much states that she wasn't on board until the start of BFA and the use of Valkyrs was to bring more dead back to undeath with more fresh looking bodies like Nathanos (This would keep souls AWAY from the jailer).

So her innocent soul should be judged as guilty for something the Banshee Queen did. If you followed Wrath lore you'd know they're two completely different people, this whole "Hurr durr retcon." is to be ignored. Either it needs to be taken out of the game or we know that Uther in Frostmourne and Uther in bastion are 2 completely unique people at time of split and thus one part of split soul can not be judged for actions of other half in any fair justice system.

The Sylvanas that did the genocides died at the end of Sanctom raid. What is left is essentially a new person and can not be guilty of actions of another.

She was working with the Jailer since Cata. The Jailer put her in as Warchief through Mueh'zala in Legion, before Genn's attack. Genn's attack had zero to do with her involvement with the Jailer and the subsequent attempt to empower him with souls.

As far as whether Sylvanas is a new person or not, she herself says she's not, so I'll take her word over yours with relation to how she views her own identity.

[Dastreus]

OP comment]

Ok, so. Killing Sylvanas, at this point, would accomplish nothing. She would still go to the Maw and do her duty of freeing all wronged within. Her death would be without any sort of consequence.

[lordjust]

Weren't there other genocidal world destroying maniacs who did get sent to Revendreth though? I wouldn't be opposed to her soul being destroyed because who actually likes Sylvanas at this point? If other monsters get a chance at revendreth, I don't see why not her too. I think it was honestly a mistake they had Arthas' soul destroyed. Though I'm thankful they didn't try to ruin his story at least.

With her expanded backstory in the new sylvanas book it would make sense that she gets sent to revendreth afterwards. The book shows how the jailer manipulated sylvans by showing her the shadowlands but made sure she'll see only unhappy people. Friends, families and lovers who got seperated in the afterlife because they were judged differently by the arbiter so that is seems you can't spend the afterlife with the people you love. That is what sylvanas refered to as the broken system she wants to set us free from so that we can choose whichever afterlife we want and with who we want to spend it. Sylvanas doesn't believe the jailer at first because to change the shadowlands would mean changing reality but the jailer tells her events that will happen in the future that to sylvanas are so outlandish that they would never happen. He told her the legion will invade azeroth, she will be warchief, we will kill a titan, something I forgot and she will hold the blood of the planet in her hands. When gallywix gave her the azerite she believed the jailer and joined him. So she thought the whole time that the jailers goal was to destroy the arbiter and covenants so everyone can choose the afterlife they think they deserve and she really only realized that she was played when he said everyone will serve him at the end of 9.1.

So similar to other souls in revendreth she believed what she did was just to help her people and everyone just as for example garrosh did who also went on a genocide to exterminate all alliance on kalimdor.

Also in the epiloge of the book it is hinted that Anduin joins sylvanas in the maw. The book reads that she hears a familiar metallic clank in the distance that remembers her of hope and in the book it is explained that she sees her dead brother in anduin and that seeing anduin gave her hope. So it seems anduin went also into the maw to atone for all the things he did while dominated by the jailer.

[Jester Joe]

https://twitter.com/Portergauge/stat...FIU69jIq2LLZDQ

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPCOX87VQAg6OBw?format=png&name=small[IMG]

Can baine fuck off to some secluded mountain with this enlightened "I have no desires, I am a perfect good boy" bullshit?

I get hating on Baine is a fun past time of the forums, but...

The Tauren literally have a ritual to communicate with the dead. He already did this in BfA to commune with his father. It's a really weird thing to hate on the fact that there's actually, ya know, solid lore to this and the fact that they're actually keeping at least something constant is good.

[Vakna]

Genn makes a very good point here to Lor'themar, god I wish the Horde hadn't gotten dragged through the mud all for the sake of Sylvanas's arc.

And this is why I will never consider the war over until all that aided Sylvanas with her conquest across Azeroth are brought to justice. A soldier with no morals or consideration of what their actions bring must face the same level of punishment as the ones who gave the order.

Just. Say. No.

[taishar68]

And this is why I will never consider the war over until all that aided Sylvanas with her conquest across Azeroth are brought to justice. A soldier with no morals or consideration of what their actions bring must face the same level of punishment as the ones who gave the order.

Just. Say. No.

And this, in a nutshell, was what made playing a Horde character so messed up; until midway in BfA, we didn't have a choice. That was the absolute worst thing about the Syl arc. The story...do what you want, I guess, but don't have players follow a leader whose actions we find morally wrong. Ironically, we had no choice in mists either, but in the opposite way; the story forced us to betray Garrosh...what if we didn't want to?

[Skytotem]

I get hating on Baine is a fun past time of the forums, but...

The Tauren literally have a ritual to communicate with the dead. He already did this in BfA to commune with his father. It's a really weird thing to hate on the fact that there's actually, ya know, solid lore to this and the fact that they're actually keeping at least something constant is good.

I'm not mad at consistency, and to the best of my knowledge that ritual doesn't let you pick who you talk to.

I'm mad that Blizz had Baine sit in a corner and the explanation they're going with to capstone that is not an indication that he'll do anything in the future to repair the playerbase's view of him or the Horde it's "Yeah I'm too good to need character development" which makes it feel like the devs are not acknowledging the issues they've created with him.

[Super Dickmann]

I'm not mad at consistency, and to the best of my knowledge that ritual doesn't let you pick who you talk to.

I'm mad that Blizz had Baine sit in a corner and the explanation they're going with to capstone that is not an indication that he'll do anything in the future to repair the playerbase's view of him or the Horde it's "Yeah I'm too good to need character development" which makes it feel like the devs are not acknowledging the issues they've created with him.

Of course they don't acknowledge the issues with him. He's exactly where they want him to be and they're the ones they put him there in the first place. This isn't a Thrall or Sylvanas situation where after overexposure there's hamhanded course correction. Baine lacks the fanbase or story relevance to get that treatment, and even if he did the people who made Baine what he is now, Golden et al, would be the ones tasked with fixing him.

[Verdugo]

I get hating on Baine is a fun past time of the forums, but...

You speak as if there wasnt a reason for that.

[Eggroll]

And why is Malfurion not there? He's the night elf leader as much as Tyrande.

[Skytotem]

And why is Malfurion not there? He's the night elf leader as much as Tyrande.

Probably still recovering from getting Axed by Saurfang.

[Super Dickmann]

And why is Malfurion not there? He's the night elf leader as much as Tyrande.

Busy maintaining that tornado in Darkshore.

[TheRevenantHero]

Hilarious how Genn is trying to talk shit on Sylvanas considering he committed a fucking war crime in Legion.

[Eggroll]

Busy maintaining that tornado in Darkshore.

haha, no he is not there. In fact, he is nowhere to be found in the current game.

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Probably still recovering from getting Axed by Saurfang.

Where? I couldn't find him. That was at the beginning of BFA though, and he has appeared in a cinematic since.
So he's already recovered.

[Super Dickmann]

haha, no he is not there. In fact, he is nowhere to be found in the current game.

In all seriousness, I assume he's back on Azeroth being faction leader as every other prominent night elf leader character is in SL. Having a faction leader actually be away from the front to lead instead of shooting space ghosts is a welcome breath of fresh air. I wonder how Jaina's mom thinks about promoting her daughter so she can go off to watch horse races or whatever she does only for Jaina to run off to hell and force her to keep running the country.