Should they just break addons?

[Coolascancer]

Most raiding addons are about feeding info to you that would otherwise be really hard to find or take too long to communicate. I'm torn cause its kinda nice to know whose cd's are up and when the boss's next fear is coming etc. It allows you an easier mastery of a fight than if it was all blind and communicated through voip or whatever AND it allows one person to be a more effective leader rather than having everyone know everything at all times, which for a player like myself who gives the game a half effort everynow and then is nice. Then again there is a disparity between people who use addons effectively and those who dont in, say, mythic+. Someone who uses weakauras effectively will probably think it takes almost no time at all to setup and get running so why not do it. Then the other addons that have less to do with combat and more to do with UI clean up or just different visuals are fine. I do think weakauras is too good, it can basically do anything. (or maybe it is very limited and i'm ignorant as fuck)

[Bloomer]

then just dont play with addons?

Hard to do that when fights nowadays are designed with addons being used in mind.

[ek0zu]

On the contrary, addons are essential for WoW to be playable, i would say that they need to implement many things in their base game, especially weakauras, macroing stuff and the nameplates which are nowadays atrocious, without those you can't play optimally.

[crusadernero]

I heavily doubt we would have the same pace of the fights and chaotic nature if there would be no combat addons.

Don't underestimate how much just dbm/bw timers alleviate reaction times, instead of learning to spot or internalize boss patterns you can just look at your timers down to the millisecond.

Same for what we've seen at the rwf where raid-notes+WA interaction basically can solve the mechanic and you "only" need to execute it properly, there is no way encounter designers don't tune around that and shorten timings that you'd otherwise need to resolve the mechanic with your own brains/communication or/and increase the execution difficulty of mechanics.

You shouldn't be at an disadvantage even in mythic difficulty because you don't want to download and fiddle around with loads of addons/weak aura strings per boss, sadly this community is already so accustomed to it I doubt we'd ever go back, even if it'd be overall healthier for the game.

Archimonde should have been the wake up call, yet here we are.

One gotta question when players stop learning the fights and just follow the recipe given from DMB, WA, etc. Thats maybe why many think that wow players "suck" if they dont have 1978 addons installed and set up. Its less about critical thinking, learning, reaction++ and more about executing what the spreadsheet tells you.

[Daymanmb]

99% of player base can't even do LFR without dying. 99% of M+ players cannot react to something bad happening using their spells and save the pull or don't wipe.

If you have a correctly configured UI, this % will be a lot lower.

You dont see that as a problem?

[Cracked]

Which is good! Except there's a number of them that they've ignored for ages, like DBM.

It's not hard to see why Blizzard conceptually doesn't want to do DBM-like part of the UI as default option. They could provide a suite where you can set up timers and alerts based on events, but that would be so much more difficult to use for a dumbass Joe than just clicking download on DBM or BigWigs that it's just not worth it.

[cuafpr]

I'd love to see combat addons broken and the game designed around no one having stuff like DBM, WA etc...

[Wangming]

i think it would be a good idea, but only for instanced content. Addons offer far too good QoL for things like AH i would not like to part with.

Wouldn't the solution would be to just implement those QoL features instead of waiting for 3rd party software to fix things and players wondering wether the news patches will break the Addon or not?

[Cracked]

Wouldn't the solution would be to just implement those QoL features instead of waiting for 3rd party software to fix things and players wondering wether the news patches will break the Addon or not?

No, because 1,000,000 people playing this game don't want the same things. If Blizzard implements it, it's "the way". Customization is what makes WoW absolutely amazing.

[Wangming]

No, because 1,000,000 people playing this game don't want the same things. If Blizzard implements it, it's "the way". Customization is what makes WoW absolutely amazing.

But that's the thing. The game does not have customization. You just have third-party software that you either download, or you don't. That isn't customization. If they added a new QoL feature that can be toggled on or off, now THAT is customization.

[Cracked]

But that's the thing. The game does not have customization. You just have third-party software that you either download, or you don't. That isn't customization. If they added a new QoL feature that can be toggled on or off, now THAT is customization.

Lol, what? I don't know 2 people who like their UIs set up the same way, QoL means something else to everyone. There's almost unlimited customization. Some like precanned UI like ElvUI, others build their own because the canned stuff doesn't do the QoL they want, and can't because then it becomes setup/toggle/option/concept hell.

Downloading an addon IS customization. You customize which ones you download.

[jeezusisacasual]

I tend to think they should just steal the add-ons and make them apart of the base game. There is no reason that Bigwigs / DBM and the like are not apart of the game outside of laziness on the warcraft team. Should there continue to be an arms race with add-on devs? no but they have to be mindful of any and all bad press going forward since it appears that the market share they have is declining which is likely no fault of there own honestly.

For starters Bartender should be in by default, weak auras should be by default with specific abilities, DBM / Bigwigs to remove the required nature of 3rd party things. This would also set a floor for the community also instead of this sink or swim landscape that we appear to be in ( i say this as someone who only uses the most basic of addons mind you ).

[Cracked]

DBM / Bigwigs to remove the required nature of 3rd party things. This would also set a floor for the community also instead of this sink or swim landscape that we appear to be in ( i say this as someone who only uses the most basic of addons mind you ).

Honestr question, how big is the difference to anyone who does normal or higher? You almost surely already have an addon manager app, so click one button more. I fail to see how this is a problem. Add to that that DBM / BW show stuff that is not precise or not clearly defined, as in "the boss sometimes does this sooner, so here's an approximate CD", what does Blizzard, as the official entity, do with that? It's just recipe for more player crying. Bossmods in the hands of the community is where it should be and that will never change.

[Trumpcat]

I would prefer if the default UI wasn't stuck 15 years in the past and it at least adequately informed you of essential effects/stacks/procs/buffs that are mandatory for your optimal performance and encounters. Then addons could be extras. Instead, addons/WAs are required or some specs can't be played in content above LFR.

[Sevariel]

NO. All of my addons are cosmetic and aren't hurting anyone. I hate the way the base game looks and this makes it enjoyable for me.

[Airickson]

Things like Bartender are fine, but I hopped into the raid as a tank for the first time without looking up any vids or reading anything and let DBM and weakauras just carry me easily.

[pinkz]

It's kinda actually the opposite of what you said back in vanilla. Addons could do WAY more than they could now. The original healbot and some other addon practically played the game for you, and Blizzard had to seriously curtain what addons were able to do.

healing script assist addons have not really ever gone away, on one of the previous RWF i was randomly watching player twitch play, can't remember which healer had icons of the players would prioritize and float in order above center UI for mouse over heal. appearing bored during wipe after wipe. i was like WTF? i don't play a healer,

i remember patches in van wow, and BC when healers in our guild would not play or could not? play until healbot was fixed, one time took almost 2 weeks.

it's time for blizzard to seriously exercise that curtain again.

- - - Updated - - -

Weak Auras can't play the game for you, the functionality just doesn't exist. There's a specific set of things it's able to do, but it can't activate spells, or move your character, or move your camera. I have zero doubt that the RWF raider was being facetious, and the addon just told you which way to walk, it wouldn't actually walk for you.

it was a RWF top guild member/leader that said that's where the weak aura takes over and does it for you maybe a misspeak?

[Kralljin]

it was a RWF top guild member/leader that said that's where the weak aura takes over and does it for you maybe a misspeak?

Emphasis on "RWF top guild member".

Obviously, you have stuff like Mythic Azshara where during the Intermission the WA literally told you what to do, but that is Mythic, on a final boss no less.

Also, Blizzard devs badly try to outsmart addon developers by creating Mechanics (which are pretty much only found in the most difficult Mythic encounters) that possibly cannot get solved by addons, despite the fact that those encounters, even without those mechanics are still pretty difficult.

Going back to Mythic Aszhara, that encounter was still one hell of a fight, despite the fact that a WA trivialized an entire mechanic, if this WA didn't exist, you could've added ~50 pulls on this boss.

It's a contest for its own sake, it's not so much that bosses become trivial due to these tools which forces their hand to develop these increasingly complex mechanics, but rather that Blizzard wants to make these tools useless for a given mechanic but inadvertently creates the ultimate justification to use these tools.

[Cracked]

it was a RWF top guild member/leader that said that's where the weak aura takes over and does it for you maybe a misspeak?

It's an exaggeration to mean that you no longer have to make any decision at that point. Of course you still press the buttons and move your character lol, but following those orders is so basic as to be nonconsequential.

[Paperfox]

If Blizz actually cared about the general sub base then they would limit and/or restrict addons from working as addons are actually helping people interact with the game even less than they were. If an addon brings what you need to focus on to the middle of your screen, then aren't you really playing a fast game of whack-a-mole?

Auction house addons do all the work for you so you just need to click OK.

If it continues, where will it end? How will a player with addons differ from a bot?