Tune WotLK up, a lot

[Phuongvi]

I fear a lot of people will burn out of it too easily otherwise.

Thoughts?

People were already burned after the second week of BT
Came back for the bear in ZA he got burned after the third unsuccessful bear run
Too many servers, too many dead servers
My guess the success will be on populated server (like Pagle, Faerlina, Mankrik, Benidiction for Us East) just forgot the low and the medium

[kranur]

I think what also helped with Naxx is that you could go into that raid with the previous expansion's tier/gear and do moderately fine, skipping the current-day replacing of all your gear to a certain point to be able to do the first raid. Was a point of contention to some back in the day, but I think it was a shift from the vanilla -> TBC experience of replacing your vanilla epics with greens in the first questing zone.

This is not true. t2+ gear was not replaced by quest greens and some aq40 and t3 were not replaced before t4. This is similar to how t6 and Sunwell gear works in wotlk, where you can jump into Naxx with that gear.
This was changed with Cataclysm when quest gear just took a shit on previous expansion gear.
And truth be told, that older design was great, otherwise what is really the point to farm gear from the last timer of an expansion?

[Onikaroshi]

otherwise what is really the point to farm gear from the last timer of an expansion?

Getting BiS is why I play the game, don't care if I don't use it /shrug.

[kranur]

Getting BiS is why I play the game, don't care if I don't use it /shrug.

Yeah, but it's a much better feeling if you get to put it to some use, instead of throwing it away for a quest reward that requires you to kill 5 wolves.

[Onikaroshi]

Yeah, but it's a much better feeling if you get to put it to some use, instead of throwing it away for a quest reward that requires you to kill 5 wolves.

Honestly never bothered me, I love getting upgrades

I actually hate going into an expansion and the quest rewards being downgrades

[Dadwen]

I'd might resub for a bit of LK classic but I'd rather the current designers keep their hands off it for the most part IMO they (sorry for a loss of any better term) suck at game design, I don't trust anything they'd do to it would make it better.

[Northern Goblin]

Wrath's balance is fine. Basing your idea of its difficulty by looking at its floor, and not its ceiling, is a poor metric.

Raid accessibility is fine, there's plenty to cut your teeth on and be challenged by, while not worrying about John Doe's progress with easier fights and smaller rewards.

Also whoever said you replaced Vanilla endgame gear with levelling clearly wasn't on about Naxx gear, that stuff lasted into Karazhan, both in retail and classic.

Most Sunwell gear will last till heroics/naxx 10, tanks are an exception with the defence changes.

[Guttamasta]

Classic should be a museum not new content with updated challenges.

yeah dont tamper with the classics

[Coffeh]

Thanks for the rant. The current game definitely isn't too hard unless you choose to engage with that content. It's designed to appeal to the broadest audience possible.

I can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic. I mean...common sense would say that's sarcasm, but obviously some people think what you say is true. Including the WoW devs.

But if you think Retail WoW appeals to the broadest audience you're out of your damn mind. Blizz drove away that broad audience years ago. WoW appeals to the e-sport crowd and whales. That is their playerbase in 2022.

[Segus1992]

I can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic. I mean...common sense would say that's sarcasm, but obviously some people think what you say is true. Including the WoW devs.

But if you think Retail WoW appeals to the broadest audience you're out of your damn mind. Blizz drove away that broad audience years ago. WoW appeals to the e-sport crowd and whales. That is their playerbase in 2022.

If you say so. I personally have enough self control to feel satisfied with doing the content I'm capable of doing with the time I put in, but I agree it could be hard if you don't.

The baseline of live WoW is extremely easy - you have to actively look for a challenge, but that challenge can definitely also be found.

[RobertMugabe]

Hello all,

TBC has suffered a big problem. We all knew the content so good from doing it back in the day, then from farming it for mogs and what not over the years after. Player experience and more complex mechanics as of recently.. it all allowed us to faceroll the content in BC classic.

There is 5 to 6 times more people running around on 4sb T6, warglaives... so many amani warbears the very week of release. I dare to say that, right now, the average server gear is the same as it was when we were deep into SWP over a decade ago, since not that many even got past Muru by the time the zombie event started anyway...


Now WotLK comes and I see 3 big problems.
1- More recent content and more popular.
2- Easier raids in average.
3- Far more accesible end game content.


If we facerolled BC content, what are we going to do with WotLK´s? I think a base HP and dmg buff should be applied to all dungeon and raid bosses. A very simple way to ensure that we do not have guilds pulling Alone in the Darkness out of their butt in the first or second week... I don´t even ask for deeper work, just a plain, base buff to all, just to buy us some extra time.

It will simply not be fun. Imagine Naxx.. it was a faceroll back then, so today we might as well go as levels 75 to make it stick a bit? Everyone is going to get there on full SWP sets lol... (remember, some BC loot goes well to Ulduar)


That´s all I think WotLK classic will need I fear a lot of people will burn out of it too easily otherwise.

Thoughts?


Btw, classic haters don´t even bother replying, this is for people genuinely interested in WotLK classic Leave the toxicity away.

Difficulty does not necessary equal fun. And TBC has still been a challenge so far for most people, it's just not mythic raiding, but that's good. If TBC raids were as hard as mythic raids then almost no one would even bother doing them, just like in retail.

I think that the Wrath raids are in a sweetspot tuning-wise where the vast majority of the playerbase will face somewhat of a challenge, but still have fun.

From my own experience, I know several Wrath private servers that tried tuning the raids and they were never a good experience. Most of the time the fights would be just a lot longer or you'd have more random oneshots which just aren't fun.

[God Save The King]

WotLK is the first expansion with any semblance of difficulty. Sure there's loads of easy content, Naxx and any of the 10 man raids (no hardmodes/heroic). But there's also the first real challenges in OS 3D, Ulduar HMs/Yogg 0, and Heroic 25m ToGC/ICC. It's the precursor to the modern difficulty system that's cemented in Cataclysm.

[Ave07]

If you want a challenge in WotlK join pug raids instead of guild raids as there are unorganized pugs that can't clear Kara or Mag.

[Shockzalot]

If you want harder raid content and a challenge play SOM. When they released the pre-nerf raids of SSC/TK plenty of guilds struggled to clear the T5 content after face rolling T4. They released T6 content in it's nerfed form and it was face rolled. Naxx 25 was never intended to be a difficult raid, it was intended to be an easy introductory raid to give players that never experienced Naxx 40 or progressed far to get a taste of it.

[Rusken]

I don't think a flat HP/dmg increase is the way to do it. Arguably one of WotLK's best features was hard mode/heroic raids. To help combat the burnout of a mindlessly easy Naxx I think they should add an Ulduar-style hard mode to keep fights interesting for people who farmed Naxx60 for months on end. Wouldn't need to be anything crazy, I'm thinking like giving Thaddius a 3rd charge, or keeping Gothik's gate open for the whole fight, or cutting Heigan's room size down/speeding up the dance. It would also all be entirely optional and wouldn't offer any better rewards, maybe just an extra drop or two.

Sarth already has +drakes but Malygos could use something else that fight kinda sucks anyway imo.

[Belloc]

Sunwell gear isn't as good as level 80 blues, so I don't see the problem.

[Marxman]

Wrath's balance is fine. Basing your idea of its difficulty by looking at its floor, and not its ceiling, is a poor metric.

Hard modes will be full cleared week 1 in every raid, barring *maybe* 25H LK just because of the enrage.

I don't think you fully understand just how easy Wrath was or how much better the players and tools of today are. Even on gigabuffed private servers, with 150%+ HP buffs and 50%+ damage buffs, bosses are full cleared week 1 quite easily.

[Northern Goblin]

Hard modes will be full cleared week 1 in every raid, barring *maybe* 25H LK just because of the enrage.

I don't think you fully understand just how easy Wrath was or how much better the players and tools of today are. Even on gigabuffed private servers, with 150%+ HP buffs and 50%+ damage buffs, bosses are full cleared week 1 quite easily.

And so was TBC content.

So was Vanilla content.

Neither of those got scaled up outside of SoM.

[shise]

Classic content is rightfully easier that mythic raiding. Let it be so.

Not really. It is today, but you can´t compare like that.

[Usernameforforums]

WotLK is the first expansion with any semblance of difficulty. Sure there's loads of easy content, Naxx and any of the 10 man raids (no hardmodes/heroic). But there's also the first real challenges in OS 3D, Ulduar HMs/Yogg 0, and Heroic 25m ToGC/ICC. It's the precursor to the modern difficulty system that's cemented in Cataclysm.

People said the same thing with tbc and heroic dungeons. Its all gonna get smacked within 2hours of release minus the leveling

The hardest thing in classic is gonna be guild recruitment.