Quel'Thalas anew in Dragonflight

[Tanaria]

The thing is, I wasn't saying that. This is why I am saying you are not looking at things objectively or rationally. I am trying to help you.



Tanaria, just pay attention to what is being said, not what you think is being said. Think objectively before you respond - you have literally spawned a two page argument over something that wasn't said, all because you thought this was about making Quel'thalas being told from a high elf perspective.

Heed the warning, it will serve you well in life. For my part in triggering you, I apologise, knowing your tendencies, that wasn't good of me.

I'm not really interested in not addressing the point, because you've let these comments which are the direct flip to mine, slide. Again, you deem the Alliance having Quel'Thalas is "rational thinking and objective thinking and positive story development", but the moment somebody says "no" or "keep it Horde" then we're being unrealistic.

I have given plenty of examples of why it should be kept Horde and the Blood Elves losing the Sunwell. You give off the same energy as I do, the moment I said "let's see a Naga vs Blood Elf" thing in Quel'Thalas, where Azshara (in her own mind) destroys the Sunwell as she sees it as a gateway for the Void but the whole thing of Azshara involved in anything other than the Night Elves sent you and Ravenmoon off the rails because like you accuse me of doing, you saw this to say "Azshara's not involved with the Night Elves" when all you had to do was read and see that I was expanding Azshara's story in all potential forms. Plus, referring back to W3 where the Blood Elves and Naga worked together, but now they were hostile enemies. In my view, you still cling to a view that so long as Blood Elves are Horde, they shouldn't get lore.

You are being a hypocrite.

And all this over two updates that aren't likely to happen anyway. If Blizzard cared about updating Quel'Thalas, they would have done it for the 9.2.5 story - hell, they would have done it for the 7.3 story with Alleria. Why? Because why the hell was the player spawning around a group of night elf npc spies from the TBC era.

[Mace]

I'm not really interested in not addressing the point, because you've let these comments which are the direct flip to mine, slide. Again, you deem the Alliance having Quel'Thalas is "rational thinking and objective thinking and positive story development",

Again, stop trying to make this about something that I haven't said or brought up, turning it into a campaign of sorts to air your grievances as to why high elves shouldn't be involved, like I am some enemy to horde blood elf players hellbent on spoiling their Quel'thalas parade, I am not, and I haven't said as much either.

You've taken my comments, made guesses on my motivations and wild inferences to produce this shit you keep hampering on about when it's not even what I've been saying here.

Read the damn text and respond to that please. If you desire a serious conversation. Otherwise go find your forum antagonist elsewhere.

[Tanaria]

Again, stop trying to make this about something that I haven't said or brought up, turning it into a campaign of sorts to air your grievances as to why high elves shouldn't be involved, like I am some enemy to horde blood elf players hellbent on spoiling their Quel'thalas parade, I am not, and I haven't said as much either.

You've taken my comments, made guesses on my motivations and wild inferences to produce this shit you keep hampering on about when it's not even what I've been saying here.

Read the damn text and respond to that please. If you desire a serious conversation. Otherwise go find your forum antagonist elsewhere.

It's the comments you haven't said.

You also need to read what the Blood Elf fans are saying as well.
We all have differing views, such as not every blood elf fan will agree with losing the Sunwell, but we are resolute in Quel'Thalas remaining for our favorite race.

Blizzard have reinforced that at the end of the 9.2.5 storyline where Lor'themar and Liadrin say "For Quel'Thalas."

[Schwert]

People seem to forget the Blood Elves left the Alliance themselves.
Anasterian pulled them out of the original Alliance and deemed the other races a waste of their resources. Obviously, some characters didn't agree with that - and that's where the bulk of Void Elf characters and Silver Covenant come from - but like...
They left.

Any discussion about the Alliance and Quel'thalas isn't about them joining, it'd be about invading it and taking it. And it seems like some people living in the country wouldn't mind, and that's something that can be played with. Siege of Silvermoon is still something I want to see, no matter who wins/loses or the outcome, but it's hard to imagine it happening with the playerbase getting more and more offended by the war in warcraft lately. At the least, I can see something starting and the void elves getting part of the Ghostlands so they have something other than a rock with tents, alongside maybe some sort of story about Dar'khan. (Bring him back? Darkfallen Void Elves? Idk. Do something, anything, with him at this point.)

But, I don't think an update is coming.
We just got new quests added in 9.2.5 and that's a huge waste of resources. Same with Stormwind and Orgrimmar. It'd have been a better use of development time to bake those quests into an already updated zone, and include it with the pre-patch. Not a .5.

People are getting their hopes up over updates to a city that is entirely functional for players already. They can tinker around with it and add quests, but the city isn't likely going to be remade and "restored" - that'd happen to the actual capital cities first. (...which needs to happen, but it's also likely not happening because they changed stuff in it on PTR.)

Also, all this talk of "if one group that launched with the other gets something, the other will too."
I see way more goblin stuff than worgen that's been trickled in through the years. Also, wasn't the draenei's raid in WoD scrapped, and pretty much their major patch? The whole expansion had a huge focus more so on orcs than draenei because of that.
That's not really a comparison people should be making because there's more to it than just the launch content - which did feel pretty balanced.

[Mace]

It's the comments you haven't said.

You also need to read what the Blood Elf fans are saying as well.
We all have differing views, such as not every blood elf fan will agree with losing the Sunwell, but we are resolute in Quel'Thalas remaining for our favorite race.

Blizzard have reinforced that at the end of the 9.2.5 storyline where Lor'themar and Liadrin say "For Quel'Thalas."

You need to stop reading what peopel have not said. you are creating an argument based on something I haven't said... the last page is full of a response to something i haven't said, assuming a position I have not stated . It's making you look incapable, , you would be best advised not to do so. You are no longer a chil and you are educated, act like it.


From your response above, you clearly are very desperately wishing you are right. Lidarin and or'themar can cry for Quel'thalas all they want, and the next expansion could have it a crater - if the writers deem fit. . You are sounding desperate and fanatical with such statements - .. I would be more sympathetic if you phrased it as "I hope, and this gives me an indication which I wish ..", but not you, you sweep in stating your hopes and wishes as facts, and it doesn'twork that way..

Whiles I don't want Quel'Thalas to become a crater, I have no control on whether it does or not, and I don't know what the writers are planning until they reveal it - this has always been the case.

For Quel'Thalas - from blood elves, high elves and void elves all

[Tanaria]

Also, all this talk of "if one group that launched with the other gets something, the other will too."
I see way more goblin stuff than worgen that's been trickled in through the years. Also, wasn't the draenei's raid in WoD scrapped, and pretty much their major patch? The whole expansion had a huge focus more so on orcs than draenei because of that.
That's not really a comparison people should be making because there's more to it than just the launch content - which did feel pretty balanced.

My point with this is that Quel'Thalas and the Azuremyst Isles are connected to the Outland Map.

It's not fair to bring one to the updated Azeroth map and leave the other. In this case, bringing Quel'Thalas to Azeroth (A horde zone) and leaving the Azuremyst Isles (Alliance zone.)
You've got do both and give both the access to fly around the zones.

I don't believe we'd get a "Light vs Void" expansion now (which is also why I don't think QT will be updated), but if we did, both Blood Elves and Draenei can be involved with the Light and Void, respectively in their new updated zones.

[Mace]

People seem to forget the Blood Elves left the Alliance themselves.
Anasterian pulled them out of the original Alliance and deemed the other races a waste of their resources. Obviously, some characters didn't agree with that - and that's where the bulk of Void Elf characters and Silver Covenant come from - but like...
They left.

Any discussion about the Alliance and Quel'thalas isn't about them joining, it'd be about invading it and taking it. And it seems like some people living in the country wouldn't mind, and that's something that can be played with. Siege of Silvermoon is still something I want to see, no matter who wins/loses or the outcome, but it's hard to imagine it happening with the playerbase getting more and more offended by the war in warcraft lately. At the least, I can see something starting and the void elves getting part of the Ghostlands so they have something other than a rock with tents, alongside maybe some sort of story about Dar'khan. (Bring him back? Darkfallen Void Elves? Idk. Do something, anything, with him at this point.)

But, I don't think an update is coming.
We just got new quests added in 9.2.5 and that's a huge waste of resources. Same with Stormwind and Orgrimmar. It'd have been a better use of development time to bake those quests into an already updated zone, and include it with the pre-patch. Not a .5.

People are getting their hopes up over updates to a city that is entirely functional for players already. They can tinker around with it and add quests, but the city isn't likely going to be remade and "restored" - that'd happen to the actual capital cities first. (...which needs to happen, but it's also likely not happening because they changed stuff in it on PTR.)

Also, all this talk of "if one group that launched with the other gets something, the other will too."
I see way more goblin stuff than worgen that's been trickled in through the years. Also, wasn't the draenei's raid in WoD scrapped, and pretty much their major patch? The whole expansion had a huge focus more so on orcs than draenei because of that.
That's not really a comparison people should be making because there's more to it than just the launch content - which did feel pretty balanced.

@Tnaria - do you see how this guy writes? "I don't think an update is coming" .. "people are getting their hopes hope" .. "I want to see" when talking about content that hasn't happened yet,.

[Tanaria]

You need to stop reading what peopel have not said. you are creating an argument based on something I haven't said... the last page is full of a response to something i haven't said, assuming a position I have not stated . It's making you look incapable, , you would be best advised not to do so. You are no longer a chil and you are educated, act like it.


From your response above, you clearly are very desperately wishing you are right. Lidarin and or'themar can cry for Quel'thalas all they want, and the next expansion could have it a crater - if the writers deem fit. . You are sounding desperate and fanatical with such statements - .. I would be more sympathetic if you phrased it as "I hope, and this gives me an indication which I wish ..", but not you, you sweep in stating your hopes and wishes as facts, and it doesn'twork that way..

Whiles I don't want Quel'Thalas to become a crater, I have no control on whether it does or not, and I don't know what the writers are planning until they reveal it - this has always been the case.

For Quel'Thalas - from blood elves, high elves and void elves all

Fine.

I hope and truly desire that Quel'Thalas' update is purely for the Horde/Blood Elf player. It's told from their perspective and the zone remains in Horde hands, by lore.
If that means losing the Sunwell, then I will be 100% ok with that.
Alliance involvement mirrors that of the nelf spies from TBC. Serve as kill quest mobs and by lore, their activities are ended.

I love how you lecture me on how to talk, but still remain silent on the fanatic Alliance High/Void Elf group who say "Quel'Thalas will be going Alliance" but I suppose it's one rule for them and another for the Blood Elf fanbase.

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@Tnaria - do you see how this guy writes? "I don't think an update is coming" .. "people are getting their hopes hope" .. "I want to see" when talking about content that hasn't happened yet,.

Yes, and I basically said the same thing.
"I don't think a QT update is coming."

If it isn't coming then it's just a Horde zone.

[Mace]

My point with this is that Quel'Thalas and the Azuremyst Isles are connected to the Outland Map.

It's not fair to bring one to the updated Azeroth map and leave the other.

Rubbish - it is not unfair - if you think about it, you will realise this.

In this case, bringing Quel'Thalas to Azeroth (A horde zone) and leaving the Azuremyst Isles (Alliance zone.)

This seems to be your motivation. If Azuremyst is an alliance zone, then Quel'Thalas has no chance of being a shared zone... I suspect this is the only reason for you bringing this up. Thing is no one brought up the alliance taking control of the zone or sharing it's perspective from a player poV - only you did. You did this because you actually are afraid it might happen, and don't want it.


Stop Tanaria, you don't need to be afraid, and if you are, it's high time you cut the blood elves off instead of let something like this scare you.

[Schwert]

My point with this is that Quel'Thalas and the Azuremyst Isles are connected to the Outland Map.

It's not fair to bring one to the updated Azeroth map and leave the other. In this case, bringing Quel'Thalas to Azeroth (A horde zone) and leaving the Azuremyst Isles (Alliance zone.)
You've got do both and give both the access to fly around the zones.

I don't believe we'd get a "Light vs Void" expansion now (which is also why I don't think QT will be updated), but if we did, both Blood Elves and Draenei can be involved with the Light and Void, respectively in their new updated zones.

Fairness sadly hasn't really been a thing for a long while in this game.
If one happens, I don't think the other will.

Granted, I still feel burnt out from both WoD and BFA right now. Here's hoping. Both those races need some extra TLC, and we can toss Void Elves in as a bonus because lore for them is lore for both factions when done right.

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@Tnaria - do you see how this guy writes? "I don't think an update is coming" .. "people are getting their hopes hope" .. "I want to see" when talking about content that hasn't happened yet,.

Do you know what speculation is?

Get off your high horse, please. This entire thread is speculation.

[Tanaria]

Rubbish - it is not unfair - if you think about it, you will realise this.


This seems to be your motivation. If Azuremyst is an alliance zone, then Quel'Thalas has no chance of being a shared zone... I suspect this is the only reason for you bringing this up. Thing is no one brought up the alliance taking control of the zone or sharing it's perspective from a player poV - only you did. You did this because you actually are afraid it might happen, and don't want it.


Stop Tanaria, you don't need to be afraid, and if you are, it's high time you cut the blood elves off instead of let something like this scare you.

So we're back to telling me how to think and what to think?

You don't want QT to be Horde, whilst I phrased my reasons for it to be a Horde zone, in the way you wanted.

[Mace]

Fine.

I hope and truly desire that Quel'Thalas' update is purely for the Horde/Blood Elf player. It's told from their perspective and the zone remains in Horde hands, by lore.
If that means losing the Sunwell, then I will be 100% ok with that.
Alliance involvement mirrors that of the nelf spies from TBC. Serve as kill quest mobs and by lore, their activities are ended.

Much better.

I love how you lecture me on how to talk, but still remain silent on the fanatic Alliance High/Void Elf group who say "Quel'Thalas will be going Alliance" but I suppose it's one rule for them and another for the Blood Elf fanbase.

.

I lecture you because you ask me too and I want to help you. You keep making assumptions that aren't true, I need to correct you. I have a saviour complex. if you were a girl in distress I'd be jumping straight into the action to rescue you without a thought to my own safety. It's probably why I do better with melee classes than caster ones.

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So we're back to telling me how to think and what to think?

It's what you come across as and are projecting.

- - - Updated - - -

Do you know what speculation is?

Get off your high horse, please. This entire thread is speculation.

I'm not the one you should be directing that at...if you follow the gentleman I'm trying to help and our exchange over the last 3 pages. horses are mant to be dismounted, especially when you need to rescue you someone.

[Tanaria]

I lecture you because you ask me too and I want to help you. You keep making assumptions that aren't true, I need to correct you. I have a saviour complex. if you were a girl in distress I'd be jumping straight into the action to rescue you without a thought to my own safety. It's probably why I do better with melee classes than caster ones.

No I don't.

You jump on to start lecturing me about how wrong it is to want QT for the Horde, yet it's perfectly fine for even more fanatical energy to be given to the Alliance and them having QT. Indeed, the whole EK belonging to the Alliance.

I don't appreciate hypocrites. The thing is, it doesn't have to be this thread, just overnight I've seen even more comments about this topic and you haven't said anything. So, shut up. Don't call me out on what I say, just because you don't like it. You can start doing that when you do it to the fanatical void elf fans. So in my view, you are perfectly alright with "The Alliance will take Quel'Thalas and Alleria will become it's Queen. That will happen." Yet, saying "Horde should keep Quel'Thalas and it's narrative be Horde driven" is not.

Last I checked, the former is also an assumption. Or is it because you play the poor, weak, pathetic Alliance faction that those poor players deserve to make those assumptions because they are the victims of the weak, pathetic Alliance?

[Katchii]

So by that logic Blood Elves should be friends with the Humans then? Since their relationship has been around longer than their friendship with the Horde.
The idea that Quel'Thalas should be Horde land is laughable. The Horde's entire shtick is taking land that isn't theirs.

You mean the friendship with humans that almost ended up with Blood Elf imprisonment and/or genocide? Right, wonder why that didn't last.

And the Blood Elves joined the Horde. Quel'thalas is the Blood Elf homeland and has been for MANY years. Therefore, Quel'thalas is Horde land, not should be, IS.

[Schwert]

Fine.

I hope and truly desire that Quel'Thalas' update is purely for the Horde/Blood Elf player. It's told from their perspective and the zone remains in Horde hands, by lore.
If that means losing the Sunwell, then I will be 100% ok with that.
Alliance involvement mirrors that of the nelf spies from TBC. Serve as kill quest mobs and by lore, their activities are ended.

I love how you lecture me on how to talk, but still remain silent on the fanatic Alliance High/Void Elf group who say "Quel'Thalas will be going Alliance" but I suppose it's one rule for them and another for the Blood Elf fanbase.

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Yes, and I basically said the same thing.
"I don't think a QT update is coming."

If it isn't coming then it's just a Horde zone.

Putting this dude's weird obsession with crapping on people just speculating, including potential dismissals despite literally being on his side - I want Quel'thalas invaded and a victory for the Alliance, but whoops-a-daisy- I worded things in a way they didn't approve of, Quel'thalas is Horde right now, and for gameplay purposes, no matter how much we want it to swap, it likely won't. I'm a hardcore Alliance fanboy now and even I can admit that.

That's where fairness actually does wind up coming in; you don't take a popular capital city from another faction and just give it to the other.
We'd have another dumpsterfire like we did with Teldrassil with how lopsided things get treated. I can't think of a single Alliance city they could give to the Horde that'd have that big of an impact. Forsaken moving into Gilneas, maybe, but the emotional attachments aren't the same.
I've seen a few people argue Suramar going Horde would have been an early "trade" for something like the Alliance taking Silvermoon, but I'd rather they just rebuild Teldrassil in HD even if that's again, something that from a developer standpoint, is a huge waste of resources.

Silvermoon is Horde.
Is it fair for the Alliance? Doesn't matter - they've been Horde for years. We have playable High Elves allied with other exiles. Either we attack Silvermoon, or we have the more likely scenario of them just building their own place somewhere and getting more allies.

But whoops I said likely. Time to invalidate.

You mean the friendship with humans that almost ended up with Blood Elf imprisonment and/or genocide? Right, wonder why that didn't last.

And the Blood Elves joined the Horde. Quel'thalas is the Blood Elf homeland and has been for MANY years. Therefore, Quel'thalas is Horde land, not should be, IS.

If that actually mattered, the Silver Covenant wouldn't exist, nor the void elves later.
People put way too much emphasis on this when it doesn't actually matter all that much, especially when Lor'themar himself almost went back to the Alliance before Jaina got mad her kingdom got literally nuked.

Also, this is the point where I point out Garithos was from Lordaeron. You know, where the Forsaken are from? The Blood Elves current allies?

Anyways, we can talk about how the Alliance can siege Silvermoon - win or lose, because that'd be fun, and actually makes sense considering there are now two Thalassian groups mad about the Horde in the game, that are both playable right now.

[Soikona]

In other words, the sky is blue, Vulpera are cute and healthstones are free?

Vulpera are not cute though…. I don’t think any sane person has ever said they were

[Mace]

No I don't.

You jump on to start lecturing me about how wrong it is to want QT for the Horde,

You are doing it again, making false assertion. There is nothing wrong about wanting things for Quel'thalas. Nothing wrong about wanting it all for blood elf players and the horde.. I never told you that you were wrong, and that was not what I was addressing. You need to go back, take of your lens, and read what I am responding to, and then respond to that.. not what yhou think I am saying in your head.

yet it's perfectly fine for even more fanatical energy to be given to the Alliance and them having QT. Indeed, the whole EK belonging to the Alliance.

Where is this coming from? How does it relate to what is being discussed here? Again , making irrelevant comments to the topic at hand or assuming what someone is saying or thinking.

I don't appreciate hypocrites. The thing is, it doesn't have to be this thread, just overnight I've seen even more comments about this topic and you haven't said anything. So, shut up. Don't call me out on what I say, just because you don't like it. You can start doing that when you do it to the fanatical void elf fans. So in my view, you are perfectly alright with "The Alliance will take Quel'Thalas and Alleria will become it's Queen. That will happen." Yet, saying "Horde should keep Quel'Thalas and it's narrative be Horde driven" is not.

I don't appreciate hypocrisy, I try to help peopel see where htey have been, call them out on it, and the hope is that they'd reconsider and be less so.

Last I checked, the former is also an assumption. Or is it because you play the poor, weak, pathetic Alliance faction that those poor players deserve to make those assumptions because they are the victims of the weak, pathetic Alliance?

No need to be rude, or insulting. This is not worth losing your temper over, certainly not enough to curse at someone and violate forum guidelines. Come on Tanaria, do not be so flustered by this. You are seeing conspiracy where none exists.. I am trying to point this out to you by telling you to go look again at the texts you are quoting, this will help.

I am not your enemy.

[Leowyld]

Vulpera are not cute though…. I don’t think any sane person has ever said they were

They get their hate, sure, I am definitely aware of that. But... doesn't change the fact they are one of the most played Allied Races. Not saying everyone plays them because they are cute. That's not my reason, I know, but I'm sure that is the motivation for some.

[Mace]

@Schwert - it's not that important. Seriously, it isn't.

[Tanaria]

No need to be rude, or insulting. This is not worth losing your temper over, certainly not enough to curse at someone and violate forum guidelines. Come on Tanaria, do not be so flustered by this. You are seeing conspiracy where none exists.. I am trying to point this out to you by telling you to go look again at the texts you are quoting, this will help.

I am not your enemy.

I'm not insulting them. I was bringing up the point that the Alliance feels weak to many and they play the faction. Them as people aren't weak.

To me, it just seems very two sided to call out me for my assumptions, but not the other.

It doesn't have to be in this thread, it can be in anything relating to Quel'Thalas (although the sort of assumptions of Alliance taking QT has also happened in this thread.)
So practice what you preach Mace. Do it for all sides, who make wild assumptions otherwise this is targeted at me and it's very anti-horde story progression for one of their core races.