My Frustration with Evoker/Dracthyr

[horizon nowhere]

I am seriously disturbed by the number of people who look at pictures of drakthyr models and sexualize it as a rule34 furry model. Like what's going through your head? They are lizards.

The class itself looks dope. People thought there would be dragonsworn. Well instead the class is about actually being a dragon. Seems pretty awesome.

I know people really like the androgynous model, but I'm a firm believer in options. Would it be absolutely horrible to have a masculine, feminine, and androgynous dragon model choice? And I'm not saying they have to be overly sexualized either.

[crusadernero]

Well it wouldn't make sense having a gnome flying over the battlefield, breathing fire.

haha I visualised this and to be honest, it would be awesome!

[Xaviaton]

Honestly, I'm fine with them so long as they can wear some armor in dragon form, so long all screenshots have them wearing the same ugly tabard, and that does have me a bit worried

I have also been kind of weirded out by this, but the new tier set concepts has one set with an open face and space for horns sticking up looking a lot like it would fit a Dracthyr, so I think this is just due to the state of development.

I know people really like the androgynous model, but I'm a firm believer in options. Would it be absolutely horrible to have a masculine, feminine, and androgynous dragon model choice? And I'm not saying they have to be overly sexualized either.

To be fair, the different face options seem to give quite distinctive genderized looks if you want to call them that. Besides that I am not really sure what they should add to make them distinctly masculine or feminine (inb4 lizard tits) since wow has never had a modifiable body shape for their races. You could argue that this makes it the perfect time to add body shapes as an option not tied to gender though.

[Stevano]

haha I visualised this and to be honest, it would be awesome!

I'd pay money to see a flying Tauren, breathing fire and destruction from above XD

[fazaim]

I'm glad we got nothing like Warbringer Goredrak and prefer the new race. I felt the human forms were a bit off and hope they'll get adjusted but I'm sure I'll get used to Dracthyr way faster than Pandaren or Vulpera.

[Mace]

I wouldn't make assumptions like that. We saw the major features of the Demon Hunter presented to us with its announcement, and it's not like they threw some crazy new feature at us later on. The wing gliding and double jumping and the demon transformations were all there at the announcement.

If they don't have full Dragon transformation for the Evoker, then it shouldn't be expected. That's quite a big feature that would be worth announcing if they were actually planning to have it happen. No reason to keep something that big a secret.

The Dracthyr it self is the dragon, but a full dragon transfomration woudl have been cool.

I still think other races are going to be able to accesst he Evoker in 11.0 , and just like DKs and DHs have unique customisations, these ones will too, but instead of being infused with fel or undeath,it owuld be dragon essence for them. As for the dragon breath abiliteis - that's not a problem at all, I mean how do the DKs do Sindragosa's breadth, there are so many options you can use - a magical effect for it is one, another is the non-dracthyr evoker actualy summons a drake that does it, a 3rd is that he uses his draconic blood and can temporarily shapehift into a dracthyr to do iit or another creature, a 4th alternative is that he gains wings like the DH and can actually fly over himself magically letting out the drgon breadth.


It's not hard ... but why not do it now? Because this way you have to buy the expansion to play the Evoker, in 11.0, it becaomes available to all, and so it can open up to other races.

[TragedyAnn]

What I find dumb about this is that people accept it while they once referred to Void Elves as "asspull". Once again proves that people just didn't like the race back then and/or couldn't get the lore behind it. Random dragon characters that do basic high fantasy things? They just get on board.

Before you call me salty, just consider the fact that this excuse of a "class" reserved class additions for years to come.

I think the key difference is this race is coming with an entire expansion to support it. Yes - This is a mostly new race that came out of nowhere from left field. It's not the first. Draenai (in their Eredar form) were a new thing, but they had a large deal of focus in Burning Crusade to support them. Pandaren, existed, but hadn't been super fleshed out... and they got the entire continent of Pandaria to support them.

We're getting a Dragon Race, in Dragonflight, on the Dragon Isles, where we learn Dragon Riding, while a Dragon Story unfolds.

Drakthyr will presumably get a great deal of focus and lore development in Dragonflight to support them.

Void Elves felt like an ass pull because they came out of nowhere, and were never the main focus of anything. They didn't exist and weren't set up super well in Legion, unlike Nightborne & Highmountain, which were super well developed before their playable debut, and Lightforged, who at least made an appearance and weren't super difficult to swallow because they didn't involve a drastic departure from normal Draenai OR a faction change that needed explaining. Void Elves had no story setup whatsoever beyone Alleria getting similar void powers shortly before their debut... and then they DIDN'T EVEN tie that Alleria story into their Origins!! It would have made 1000x more sense for Alleria to introduce this power to her people... but instead they had the Void Elves empowered in a completely unrelated scenario for completely unrelated reasons...

And AFTER all that... they still didn't get much focus in BFA either! The sum total of all focus they got exists in brief transitional period between two major expansions, where they didn't really play a key role in EITHER. They basically debuted after the story had wrapped in Legion, Blizzard said, "Well, they exist now" - left it at that and moved on into BFA. People complained they still wanted high elves, so they gave them fair skin and blue eyes as a compromise... and the story chugged on without ever giving them much focus.

That's why Void Elves felt like an ass pull. They came out of nowhere, and did nothing.

Drakthyr are certainly coming out of nowhere, but for the moment... we have no reason to believe they'll do nothing. It remains to be seen, but they'll presumably get a great deal more focus in this expansion's story than Void Elves did debuting in a weird nexus between two expansions where they got little to no focus in either.

[Selah]

Yes..

Bad comparison.

Can you please explain why lazor beams coming out of eye sockets more sensible than a gnome breathing fire over a battlefield? Are we not going to talk about the fact mages can already do that with a spell?

- - - Updated - - -

I get what you’re trying to say but it does makes sense as to why it’s only dracthyr, unlike actual dragons we can’t choose for ourselves as that decision was done already by Neltharion, as he had created the Dracthyr with the sole intention of being soldiers/evokers

Same argument could be made for demon hunters and why is it only Nelf’s/Bell’s that can Be that class. Because from a lore standpoint it makes sense.

Okay, but what is actually involved with being a DH? What leads you there? Eating a literal demon's heart. Anyone could do that, there has never been a reason given (to my knowledge) as to why only elves can be a DH. The argument always is "that's just how the lore is set up" which was how it was for Shamans and Paladins, but here we are years later with human Shamans and troll Paladins. Again, the lore is plenty flexible. There is no real reason for this restriction.

[Triceron]

It's not hard ... but why not do it now? Because this way you have to buy the expansion to play the Evoker, in 11.0, it becaomes available to all, and so it can open up to other races.

The reason may be because making a class exclusive to one race and vice versa allows them to build a new player class like they do an NPC, and not require the work of adapting new animations to every existing Race (like the needed for Monks having martial arts) or having the new race need combat and casting animations for every possible class combination.

And theres simple enough reasons why they won't be opening up this class to more races. They set up a lore reason to never have to expand the class to any other race. I doubt they have any intention to do so in the future for the very reason of not having to divert resources into other race options. The Evoker class is tailored to the Dracthyr completely.

[Inoculate]

I like the idea of opening up Dracthyr to new classes in 11.0. After this story they'd be more likely to interact with the other races and share and learn.

[ClassicPeon]

I like the idea of opening up Dracthyr to new classes in 11.0. After this story they'd be more likely to interact with the other races and share and learn.

Makes sense to me - the other way around aswell(some races possibly getting access to the Evoker class).

I still dont really understand why they chose not to make the black flight a tank spec.

In my mind its a straight forward 4 spec class:

Red : Ranged dps or healing
Green: Healing
Yellow: Ranged dps or healing
Black: Tanking

The only actual reason i can see for not doing this is simply that they feel like they dont have time for it - which to me is odd

[Mace]

The reason may be because making a class exclusive to one race and vice versa allows them to build a new player class like they do an NPC, and not require the work of adapting new animations to every existing Race (like the needed for Monks having martial arts) or having the new race need combat and casting animations for every possible class combination.

And theres simple enough reasons why they won't be opening up this class to more races. They set up a lore reason to never have to expand the class to any other race. I doubt they have any intention to do so in the future for the very reason of not having to divert resources into other race options. The Evoker class is tailored to the Dracthyr completely.

Lore reason can always be changed and it is very easy to change this one.

All your reasons may be correct, but the main reasons could be financial, both in terms of resources for customisation and incentives to buy the expansion.

Players will undoubtedly ask for the Evoker to be available to other races, so when they give this bect expansion, it will seem like answering player request and really trying by updating the art.

Everyone wins.

[MiiiMiii]

I typically love DPS/Healing hybrids as I don't have any interest in tanking. Until now it's been a Shaman thing, and nice to see this one get it too.

I love Alexstrasa, Ysera, all the dragons. They look badass.

But this race does not at all fulfil that fantasy. A total miss for me. I'm not looking like that. I will level one up, but it will NEVER be my main no matter how fun it is.

[Kumorii]

I just need armor on the dragon form and I'm gucci.

[Rootsbum]

I hope we get an option for a shorter neck at least. It feels a little lizard-like to me.
Also, being able to show of some gear (Shoulders, belt, pants or even chest) would be great.

Its the main reason I cant stick with druid, lol. I like to change things up

[Futhark]

I just need armor on the dragon form and I'm gucci.

Yeah, I'm coming around to the whole concept. If we get actual armor on the dragon-form, it will be even better.

[un_known]

Okay, but what is actually involved with being a DH? What leads you there? Eating a literal demon's heart. Anyone could do that, there has never been a reason given (to my knowledge) as to why only elves can be a DH. The argument always is "that's just how the lore is set up" which was how it was for Shamans and Paladins, but here we are years later with human Shamans and troll Paladins. Again, the lore is plenty flexible. There is no real reason for this restriction.

the closest lore explanation i could find was from the illidan novel that was on this forum years ago:

Step 1: Kill a demon.
Step 2: Eat the demon's heart and drink its blood.
Step 3: Illidan zaps you with fel lightning.The demon's spirit begins trying to take over you.
Step 4: Kill the demon again in your dreams and eat its heart once more.
Step 5: Receive visions of the Legion destroying countless worlds across infinite universes while the demon spirit taunts you.
Step 6: Tear your eyes out at the sheer horror of it all.
Step 7: Wake up blind and possibly insane, don't listen to the demon spirit while you wait for spectral sight to start working.
Step 8: Get tattooed to keep the demon spirit from overwhelming you

:edit:

another lore example i found was:

a group of night elves, inspired by Illidan's example, made a pact to turn the Burning Legion's powers against it, fighting destruction with destruction. Obviously they could not gain their powers in the same way Illidan did, but they discovered other means. In the millennia since, other night elves, and a few creatures of other races, have made the same pact, binding demonic essence in their bodies and using it to destroy the Legion's minions

so my interpretation is that the elves are more synonymous with being demon hunters than any other race on azeroth, while you are indeed correct about how anyone could do that, i believe it was the case of "which race has become demon hunters the most"

[Selah]

the closest lore explanation i could find was from the illidan novel that was on this forum years ago:

Step 1: Kill a demon.
Step 2: Eat the demon's heart and drink its blood.
Step 3: Illidan zaps you with fel lightning.The demon's spirit begins trying to take over you.
Step 4: Kill the demon again in your dreams and eat its heart once more.
Step 5: Receive visions of the Legion destroying countless worlds across infinite universes while the demon spirit taunts you.
Step 6: Tear your eyes out at the sheer horror of it all.
Step 7: Wake up blind and possibly insane, don't listen to the demon spirit while you wait for spectral sight to start working.
Step 8: Get tattooed to keep the demon spirit from overwhelming you

:edit:

another lore example i found was:

a group of night elves, inspired by Illidan's example, made a pact to turn the Burning Legion's powers against it, fighting destruction with destruction. Obviously they could not gain their powers in the same way Illidan did, but they discovered other means. In the millennia since, other night elves, and a few creatures of other races, have made the same pact, binding demonic essence in their bodies and using it to destroy the Legion's minions

so my interpretation is that the elves are more synonymous with being demon hunters than any other race on azeroth, while you are indeed correct about how anyone could do that, i believe it was the case of "which race has become demon hunters the most"

Well, I think the more accurate picture regarding DH is that their class needs new character customization options ranging from new skin colors and tones, to new eyes, blind folds, ect. That's a lot of work and the question then becomes is it worth the investment of time and resources?

So far, with what we've seen with Evoker, which admittedly isn't much, are things that are easily solved with different (and likely already existing) animations for the non-Dracthyr races. I can appreciate what they're going for with this, I like the concept, but it seems far more like a step in the wrong direction. Especially considering more and more games (and even TTRPGs) are moving away from class/race restrictions.

[Varx]

I'm sure the evoker will be opened up to other races in future expansions and the dracthyr having more class options.

Any animations that need the dracthyr model for the evoker can simply go the spontaneous Meta appearance that DHs use for chaos nova or eye beam but like as an ethereal dracthyr for non dracthyr evokers

[Highlord Hanibuhl]

I’m just sad they cannot be any other class.. I wanted to make a Dracthyr Mage.. or Warlock