Longterm problem of Dragonriding

[Niwes]

No, they talked specificially about Dragonriding in other areas. There's no room for confusion.

oh, ok. so i obviously missed that part.

but tbh i can’t imagine they do this. foremost for the pure technological effort they have to invest.

[glowpipe]

Won't be no long term issue with dragonriding. Its just another borrowed power that is going away with 11.0

[huth]

oh, ok. so i obviously missed that part.

but tbh i can’t imagine they do this. foremost for the pure technological effort they have to invest.

They have to invest that effort either way to make it work in DF. Making it work everywhere else shouldn't really require much if any extra effort (although there'd naturally not be anything to take advantage of it beyond higher speed in old content).

[Supertoster]

DR is not a borrowed power system. its a xpac feature.

But it is. If it gives players new ability to interact with the game world- it means it increases player power. And if this feature will be abandoned later- it may be called as "borrowed power".

The problem is that WoW players get used to xpac features to be abandoned when xpac ends. This is the main reason why WoW stagnates and does not move forward. Each expansion adds something potentially fun, but it is added as temporary feature, not a core system to build upon later. Features cannot be improved if they are not carried forward.
MoP scenarios, Timeless Isle, Archeology, Mage Tower, Torghast, Isle Expeditions, Garrisons, Order Halls - all of these were not ideal features, but good foundations to be improved later. Yet, all of them were abandoned.
So in the end the only core content WoW has is raids and dungeons for PvE and Arenas and Battlegrounds for PvP. Which is very few by modern standars.

[huth]

But it is. If it gives players new ability to interact with the game world- it means it increases player power. And if this feature will be abandoned later- it may be called as "borrowed power".

No, it's not. Player power means combat power.

[Soeroah]

Given they said you'll be able to use Dragonriding to move "much faster" than normal flying mounts, I'm willing to wait til I see it in practice before I say people would prefer normal flying over it.

[Supertoster]

No, it's not. Player power means combat power.

You are clearly don't understand what power is.

[huth]

You are clearly don't understand what power is.

I know what power is. I also know what particular subset of power player power is referring to. You apparently don't.

[Supertoster]

I know what power is. I also know what particular subset of power player power is referring to. You apparently don't.

Nah, you are not.
Power is an ability to do something, to achieve something. More power means ability to achieve goals faster and in more effective way. Ability to fly - is power. Ability to move faster - is power. Why? Because it, just like combat power, affects how much time player must spend to achieve their goals.

Isle Expedition, Mage Tower or Torghast - is not a power. It is a content, a gameplay mode, which sets goals to achieve. Dragonriding - is a power, it is a tool that helps to achieve goals set by content.

[Alexjimithing]

Nah, you are not.
Power is an ability to do something, to achieve something. More power means ability to achieve goals faster and in more effective way. Ability to fly - is power. Ability to move faster - is power. Why? Because it, just like combat power, affects how much time player must spend to achieve their goals.

Isle Expedition, Mage Tower or Torghast - is not a power. It is a content, a gameplay mode, which sets goals to achieve. Dragonriding - is a power, it is a tool that helps to achieve goals set by content.

Your interpretation of the term ‘player power’ in regards to WoW is, to put it simply, incorrect. Player power in discussions regarding WoW has always specifically referred to combat power, nothing else.

[huth]

Nah, you are not.
Power is an ability to do something, to achieve something.

You're thinking of "Powers", which in the context of WoW would usually be called "abilities". Not power, which usually refers to how good you are at a certain task.

I'm chalking this up to your limited grasp of English, but you just proved that you don't know what power is.

[Eosia]

Yes, it's a fair complaint that people won't be able to fly on their old flying mounts. Doesn't mean it's a good idea, however, or that it should be done.

Except it WAS done back in WoD... and it did not end well. #NoFlyNoSub

[huth]

Except it WAS done back in WoD... and it did not end well. #NoFlyNoSub

Yes, they should have stood to their design and kept flying out.

[Goat7]

Hmm, this got me thinking they'll get creative with mounts going forward. We might actually see dynamic boats and wall crawlers in the future if this system survives.

Yeah they gonna be available on the in game store or with your 6 month sub.

[Flame6]

Easy, make dragonriding 20% faster then regular flying.

[Eosia]

Yes, they should have stood to their design and kept flying out.

Yeah... really great for sbuscriptions...

Flying is NOT going away. Deal with it. #SorryNotSorry

[Sugani]

Easy, make dragonriding 20% faster then regular flying.

It's not as simple as that. Dragonriding is clearly being designed to make flying more engaging. Flying faster is going to require some input in order to maximize your speed. It's not the brain-dead noclip flying that players have been spoiled with for the last several years.

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Nah, you are not.
Power is an ability to do something, to achieve something. More power means ability to achieve goals faster and in more effective way. Ability to fly - is power. Ability to move faster - is power. Why? Because it, just like combat power, affects how much time player must spend to achieve their goals.

Isle Expedition, Mage Tower or Torghast - is not a power. It is a content, a gameplay mode, which sets goals to achieve. Dragonriding - is a power, it is a tool that helps to achieve goals set by content.

You are clearly don't understand what power is.

I know what power is. I also know what particular subset of power player power is referring to. You apparently don't.

Borrowed Power isn't the problem. The lack of Evergreen systems is. I made a thread about this the day the expansion was announced worried about the same problems that are noted in this post. Island Expeditions, Torgasht, Warfronts, Chromie Time, and Corrupted Visions, are all forms of non-evergreen systems. They are only relevant for the expansion they were debuted in. The Mage Tower is the only exception to this now, where Blizzard took a step in the right direction making it an evergreen system, allowing players to do it whenever they want and scale them to the appropriate level.

I fear Dragonriding will be the next 'feature' abadoned in the subsuquent expansions. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[Jester Joe]

personally i think its a test, if it works all flying mounts will adopt the system going forward, if it fails they won't.

They straight up said that they want to expand it to the rest of the game, but they won't be able to for a bit.

[Niwes]

But it is. If it gives players new ability to interact with the game world- it means it increases player power. And if this feature will be abandoned later- it may be called as "borrowed power".

The problem is that WoW players get used to xpac features to be abandoned when xpac ends. This is the main reason why WoW stagnates and does not move forward. Each expansion adds something potentially fun, but it is added as temporary feature, not a core system to build upon later. Features cannot be improved if they are not carried forward.
MoP scenarios, Timeless Isle, Archeology, Mage Tower, Torghast, Isle Expeditions, Garrisons, Order Halls - all of these were not ideal features, but good foundations to be improved later. Yet, all of them were abandoned.
So in the end the only core content WoW has is raids and dungeons for PvE and Arenas and Battlegrounds for PvP. Which is very few by modern standars.

i agree in the sense that wow could be way more than it is, by keep using its added stuff. but i am not entire sure if i even want that. here is why:

i clearly can see how Blizz invests less and less effort into wow. Many of the „systems“ of the last 2 xpacs were based on rather cost effective designs. stuff like Azerite, Soulbinds or Essences are literally a simple UI, paired with some DB entries and a bit logic code. Also something like Islands or Warfronts used clever rehash technologies, also presented halfassed. none of them was, even when actual content, greatly further developed.

would i love to see all of this added to wow in general, steadily evolving, improved, fine tuned and formed into great content, i can access everytime, even in the next 4 addons ? yes! totally yes!

do i want Blizzard to put all this halfassed things into a greater wow sheme, by just keeping them, without any further improvement, in a company environment that clearly shows me, that they are not even able to handle actual content? so i get some wow full of many many halfassed stuff, Blizz never gets working? no! totally not.

so, in theory, i am totally with you. but in Blizzards living practice, given the last years, i just can’t see that. not as something that is making wow better overall. heck, when you even can’t evolve and fine tune actual game content, like Torghast, Maw or Korthia, i dont wanna see that same ppl handling even more systems and keeping stuff from older xpacs still relevant and improved.

shitty Islands from BfA or Warfronts of BfA already nobody played any longer, even when 8.1 was actual. why the hell ppl shall play that same unfinished shit in wow today? when that stuff will not get improved?

so yes, your theory is fine and i agree. the problem with your theory: it’s a theory. not the real life.

–––

ps:

maybe your statement may now be:

„yes, but instead of steadily implementing temporary new stuff they SHOULD invest that time into keep making older stuff relevant, as you said above? so why they don’t do that?“

the answer is simple:

they have to begin doing this at some point. at that point you have no new features on the xpacs list, besides „we improve and keep stuff relevant, we already have“. not a good product selling practice. so, yes, you are right. they should keep stuff they had, improve it, make it perfect and stick with it. but for actual Blizzard this means 9.0 dont have Dragonriding but keeps a better form of Torghast. and for 10.0 it means you not get new feature X but you keep an improved form of DR for whole Azeroth. ppl will enrage. it just don’t works (that way).

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They have to invest that effort either way to make it work in DF. Making it work everywhere else shouldn't really require much if any extra effort (although there'd naturally not be anything to take advantage of it beyond higher speed in old content).

i can 100% assure you, HOW wrong you are.

i am sw developer since over 20 years (hell, 25 years, i realize) and i can assure you, there is good chance they have to touch a lot, to make this work in Azeroth.

dragon isles are build up with that feature in mind and developed alongside this feature. completely decoupled from the rest of the Azeroth code base. a company like Blizz always tries to touch as less old code as possible, because every small change „can“ (must not always be the case) have enormous effects. implementing DR into Azeorth, means to change a lot.

how coupled the needed changes are, how difficult they are and how much you have to touch… this is on what it depends. blizz often enhanced old stuff, implemented new things into old stuff etc. but they always analyze it before and look how complex it is and if it’s worth. and there is no general rule of thumb here. million times in my life i couldnt really good explain a manager why a super small change on the surface (from his or the users perspective) resulted in a lot of coding effort. while at the same time, some great changes on the surface (for which he thought that would be never ever possible) could be easily implemented in the matter of days.

in short: software, engineering wise, not works internally the same (or have the same relations) as you think, when looking on it from the outside. the smallest changes, looking laughly easy in your eyes, could be a huge effort. giant improvements in your eyes, could be a simple easy change. it always depends. always.

this means: just because it looks for you like „they already have DR for Dragonflight in the game“ it doesn’t mean „they just have to turn 2 knobs and activate it for whole Azeorth“. NOT. IN. THE. SLIGHTEST.

don’t get me wrong. i don’t say it’s not possible. and i don’t say they will not do it. but it’s effort. maybe not the biggest effort ever, but also not a tiny, super easy, quick change. the question is: how much is the effort and is DR on Azeroth that effort worth in Blizzards opinion.

[RobertMugabe]

There are a couple ways they could address this issue in the future: Making dragonriding a lot faster (incl. going up and diving), be able to fly higher, mobs that hit you in air will always dismount you on a regular flying mount vs. dragonriding being able to dodge that if played right etc etc.