A technology-themed expansion could have worked

[arkanon]

Most of the people in this very fucking thread spent the last 3 years adamant we would never go to the Dragon Isles or have a dragon themed expansion.

Got anything to support such a bold claim?

[VinceVega]

Or you could just keep pretending the new class doesn't exist once they add them.

IF they add them :P

[Teriz]

No one is claiming that. I simply pointed out that this is how you make it seem to be because of how much you idolize your favored class concept above all others.

Which I don’t. Hence why it’s a straw man.

That is not the argument, though. You're splitting the argument in two and responding to each one in a vacuum, and that's dishonest. (No surprise there)

I simply said that, if this tech class was so "important", so "popular" and "superior" to every other class idea under the sun, that technology is "so important" and "so easy to make an expansion out of", and both a tech class and tech-based expansion can so seamlessly integrate into WoW's stories, why hasn't it happened yet? Why, expansion after expansion, the focus is always on magic and the mystical, with technology always taking a backseat?

Saying it’s not the argument, then proceeding to argue it again….. Okay.

Pandaren were the most requested race in WoW. They weren’t brought into the game until 8 years after the game released. Demon Hunters were probably the most requested class in the history of the game, and it took 12 years after the game’s release to implement them.

It’s a dumb argument to say that a concept isn’t important, popular, valuable, viable, vital, etc. simply because it hasn’t been released yet. If Blizzard said that 10.0 was the final expansion, only then would you have a point.

Also no one ever said that the Tinker is better than “every class concept under the sun”. Please stop with the straw man.

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When it is something where the playerbase is very vocal about in both direction i think this is acutally the best way for them.
There are more then enough people who want wow to go away from tech and scifi stuff an move more towards fantasy. As there are people who want to embrace it.
So. Keep as is without erasing or embracing is the only way they can go imho.

You mean like the very vocal contingent of players who complain every expansion release that WoW is a mess balance-wise, therefore WoW should never release a new class? Meanwhile, WoW continuously releases new classes, and when it happens that contingent completely falls silent until the next expansion rolls around?

The people who supposedly hate the idea of technology in WoW will be playing a technology expansion regardless. Especially if it’s good.

[VinceVega]

Which I don’t. Hence why it’s a straw man.



Saying it’s not the argument, then proceeding to argue it again….. Okay.

Pandaren were the most requested race in WoW. They weren’t brought into the game until 8 years after the game released. Demon Hunters were probably the most requested class in the history of the game, and it took 12 years after the game’s release to implement them.

It’s a dumb argument to say that a concept isn’t important, popular, valuable, viable, vital, etc. simply because it hasn’t been released yet. If Blizzard said that 10.0 was the final expansion, only then would you have a point.

Also no one ever said that the Tinker is better than “every class concept under the sun”. Please stop with the straw man.

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You mean like the very vocal contingent of players who complain every expansion release that WoW is a mess balance-wise, therefore WoW should never release a new class? Meanwhile, WoW continuously releases new classes, and when it happens that contingent completely falls silent until the next expansion rolls around?

The people who supposedly hate the idea of technology in WoW will be playing a technology expansion regardless. Especially if it’s good.

No i don't mean that. The people who want wow to be more fantasy like are a bit more prevalent than the people who don't want new classes.

Stop twisting everything i say. Or intrepret in the worst way possible all the time. Really exhausting.

And i don't think so. But we will never now. Because i HIGHLY doubt blizz will ever release an expansion which is highly connected to two of the least palyed races in the game (and yes i fucking now other races besides gnomes and goblins have tech also, before you start examinating every single word again and start nitpicking)

[Kiria]

I really don't understand how people can argue we'll never get a tech themed expansion in Undermine or anything. Most of the people in this very fucking thread spent the last 3 years adamant we would never go to the Dragon Isles or have a dragon themed expansion. Even as evidence mounted, were insistent Dragon Isles will just be patch content or a raid.

I hate the tech themed stuff in WoW the little we get is just about bearable but if a full blown expansion based on tech came out it would be the first expansion I refuse to buy.

And im pretty sure I'm not the only person who holds this stance.

[Teriz]

No i don't mean that. The people who want wow to be more fantasy like are a bit more prevalent than the people who don't want new classes.

Stop twisting everything i say. Or intrepret in the worst way possible all the time. Really exhausting.

And i don't think so. But we will never now. Because i HIGHLY doubt blizz will ever release an expansion which is highly connected to two of the least palyed races in the game (and yes i fucking now other races besides gnomes and goblins have tech also, before you start examinating every single word again and start nitpicking)

Except just like Dragon Isles, Undermine was a proposed landmass in Vanilla WoW, and Undermine was mentioned frequently in WoW lore. Further after Cataclysm, Blizzard stated that Undermine still existed, and that they wanted players to go there. Undermine would be the key expansion location to introduce a Tinker class, so why would you "HIGHLY" doubt it happening after we got Dragon Isles which was mentioned less than Undermine?

[Celement]

I hate the tech themed stuff in WoW the little we get is just about bearable but if a full blown expansion based on tech came out it would be the first expansion I refuse to buy.

And im pretty sure I'm not the only person who holds this stance.

I dislike the junker style of it... that said I liked the hearthstone steel legion idea

[HansOlo]

Why stick to FF when we have Undermine that has the same pedigree as the Dragon Isles, if not more so?

I don't want a burger on my pizza.

If I want housing - I play Sims. If want steampunk stuff - I play FF. If I want to have a really complex lore - I play Warhammer.

Let's not turn WoW to a steampunk simulator.

[Teriz]

I don't want a burger on my pizza.

If I want housing - I play Sims. If want steampunk stuff - I play FF. If I want to have a really complex lore - I play Warhammer.

Let's not turn WoW to a steampunk simulator.

I hate to tell you this, but the place where you're getting burgers is also serving pizza. It's been serving pizza for almost 30 years.

[HansOlo]

I hate to tell you this, but the place where you're getting burgers is also serving pizza. It's been serving pizza for almost 30 years.

Good point.

But I still don't understand the need to reinvent the game.

[Teriz]

Good point.

But I still don't understand the need to reinvent the game.

The concept is already in the game. People are simply saying that concept should be playable in class form.

[Ielenia]

Which I don’t. Hence why it’s a straw man.

To deny you don't is like denying the sun is hot. No one else keeps propping up their own class idea while doing their worst to break down other people's ideas. You always keep talking about how the tinker class is "superior" to everything else because of "pedigree", because of "warcraft 3", because of "heroes in lore", because of "heroes of the storm", etc, and how all other class ideas are inferior because "they're represented already" or "have no heroes", etc.

Pandaren were the most requested race in WoW. They weren’t brought into the game until 8 years after the game released. Demon Hunters were probably the most requested class in the history of the game, and it took 12 years after the game’s release to implement them.

I'm not talking about popularity. I'm talking about you, though, and how you constantly attack other people's ideas with arguments that more often than not also apply to your own special idea, making false statements of facts about class design processes, etc. You keep saying, always, year after year, that "the tinker will be next class".

"It took demon hunters 12 years until they were playable." And? We are 18 years without tinkers, and counting. A class that you constantly harp how "it's the only class that makes sense", how "all the clues point to tinker class", how "only tinker has pedigree", yadda-yadda.

It’s a dumb argument to say that a concept isn’t important, popular, valuable, viable, vital, etc. simply because it hasn’t been released yet.

Except the argument is that "importance, popularity, validity and vitality" are irrelevant and immaterial, because otherwise we'd have demon hunters and tinkers long before we got monks and evokers.

[Alduin]

I don't want a burger on my pizza.

If I want housing - I play Sims. If want steampunk stuff - I play FF. If I want to have a really complex lore - I play Warhammer.

Let's not turn WoW to a steampunk simulator.

I remember a time where warcraft was pretty much only about Humans and Orcs.. and maybe some technology / construction style they brought. Atleast by the second game you had a lot of technological advanced units like
- demonolition squads
- flying machines/zepplines
- a lot of navy stuff (that Blizzard didn't explore until WoD .. heck how did they build the gunships..)

But in good faith: If I want to see 10 people struggle for a hour and a half, shouting at each other and sometimes being kinda successful .. I play football.

[Teriz]

To deny you don't is like denying the sun is hot. No one else keeps propping up their own class idea while doing their worst to break down other people's ideas. You always keep talking about how the tinker class is "superior" to everything else because of "pedigree", because of "warcraft 3", because of "heroes in lore", because of "heroes of the storm", etc, and how all other class ideas are inferior because "they're represented already" or "have no heroes", etc.

I've addressed this multiple times. At this point, believe what you want.

I'm not talking about popularity. I'm talking about you, though, and how you constantly attack other people's ideas with arguments that more often than not also apply to your own special idea, making false statements of facts about class design processes, etc. You keep saying, always, year after year, that "the tinker will be next class".

"It took demon hunters 12 years until they were playable." And? We are 18 years without tinkers, and counting. A class that you constantly harp how "it's the only class that makes sense", how "all the clues point to tinker class", how "only tinker has pedigree", yadda-yadda.


Except the argument is that "importance, popularity, validity and vitality" are irrelevant and immaterial, because otherwise we'd have demon hunters and tinkers long before we got monks and evokers.

Nice twist of the original argument. Your original argument was essentially that since Blizzard hasn't brought the Tinker class out yet, they're not going to because (in your view) it doesn't fit the nature of WoW's style of fantasy, thus not viable as an expansion concept, and that a profession somehow covers its class concept. My counter argument is that just because a concept isn't released yet doesn't mean that it isn't popular, viable, or not something that Blizzard wants to do. In other words, just because Blizzard hasn't released an Undermine expansion with a Tinker class, and we're 18 years into WoW, doesn't mean that they're not going to, nor does it mean that Blizzard views it as important content to include in WoW at some point.

[Ielenia]

I've addressed this multiple times. At this point, believe what you want.

And I've shown your "addressing" to be bogus. The only thing you "attempted to address" was a misinterpretation of my original argument.

Nice twist of the original argument. Your original argument was essentially that since Blizzard hasn't brought the Tinker class out yet, they're not going to

That was never my argument in the first place. I brought up the "we are closing in on eighteen years of no tinkers" to demonstrate to you how your claims of "popularity", your claims of "validity", your claims of "tinker is the only class that makes sense" are completely meaningless. Because year after year you make the exact same claims, year after year, it's always "tinkers will be the next class", "tinkers are next", "only tinkers make sense", etc, etc, and year after year people tell you that your claims are unproven, and irrelevant. And year after year... we get no tinker class.

And instead of doing some introspection, to realize your claims are faulty, incorrect, inaccurate, you just double-down on them. Every. Single. Time.

[Teriz]

That was never my argument in the first place. I brought up the "we are closing in on eighteen years of no tinkers" to demonstrate to you how your claims of "popularity", your claims of "validity", your claims of "tinker is the only class that makes sense" are completely meaningless. Because year after year you make the exact same claims, year after year, it's always "tinkers will be the next class", "tinkers are next", "only tinkers make sense", etc, etc, and year after year people tell you that your claims are unproven, and irrelevant. And year after year... we get no tinker class.

And instead of doing some introspection, to realize your claims are faulty, incorrect, inaccurate, you just double-down on them. Every. Single. Time.

And this is just another example of your hyperbolic, straw-manning silliness. I challenge you to find a recent post (around the last six months) where I say specifically that "Tinkers will be the next class", "Tinkers are definitely next", "Only Tinkers make sense", etc.

[arkanon]

And this is just another example of your hyperbolic, straw-manning silliness. I challenge you to find a recent post (around the last six months) where I say specifically that "Tinkers will be the next class", "Tinkers are definitely next", "Only Tinkers make sense", etc.

Did you ever say this?

"I predict an expansion somehow merging those three themes together. How they do it, I have no idea. However, I do believe that the "Empire of Dragons" involves the Dragon Isles, along with the new dragonflight introduced in BFA; the Voidwings, probably led by a new character with Xal'natath pulling the strings in the background. Somehow Blizzard finds a way to shoehorn Tinkers into the mix, probably incorporating Undermine due to old lore tying Goblin tech to the Dragon Soul and Deathwing."

[Teriz]

Did you ever say this?

"I predict an expansion somehow merging those three themes together. How they do it, I have no idea. However, I do believe that the "Empire of Dragons" involves the Dragon Isles, along with the new dragonflight introduced in BFA; the Voidwings, probably led by a new character with Xal'natath pulling the strings in the background. Somehow Blizzard finds a way to shoehorn Tinkers into the mix, probably incorporating Undermine due to old lore tying Goblin tech to the Dragon Soul and Deathwing."

Nice way of taking a quote out of context. You missed this part;

So if the leak is real, I predict an expansion somehow merging those three themes together. How they do it, I have no idea. However, I do believe that the "Empire of Dragons" involves the Dragon Isles, along with the new dragonflight introduced in BFA; the Voidwings, probably led by a new character with Xal'natath pulling the strings in the background. Somehow Blizzard finds a way to shoehorn Tinkers into the mix, probably incorporating Undermine due to old lore tying Goblin tech to the Dragon Soul and Deathwing.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-Dragons/page4

The leak wasn't real, so there you go.

[RobertMugabe]

Sadly mecha themed content has been tainted by being pretty trash in bfa so it's not likely they will go back to it.

wdym?

IIRC Mechagon was extremely well received, possibily the best "island" type they added, even though it was side content to Nazjatar.

[arkanon]

Nice way of taking a quote out of context. You missed this part;




https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-Dragons/page4

The leak wasn't real, so there you go.

So because your prediction was WRONG, it.....doesn't count? You crack me up mate.