if the leak is true and we have a coming pre-purchase allied race what would u choose

[Triceron]

They being easy to implement is one of the reasons of why they should be playable(even when sometimes those variables are not rly related, as some other things are easy but should not be implemented), but its another problem

Right, and I pointed out if it were simple they would already be playable.

Meaning, it's not actually as simple as people think it is. It's absolutely not.

They are not playable, not because they are not easy to make, but because blizzard don't wanna.

Which doesn't make my statement wrong at all. We could also say that don't wanna because it's not simple. Being a complex decision is part of the reason why they aren't, otherwise we have all the lore reason to suggest that they should be.

I mean do you think they went out of their way to make Mechagnomes playable because they really wanted Mechagnomes to be playable? Lightforged, Highmountain and Mechagnomes are playable because they were an easy option. In any other scenario, I could literally point out how there was little to no demand for Junker gnomes to become playable, and they remain the least played race in the entire game. They're literally there to fill a status quo.

And if we're talking about actively wanting Ogres? Even Metzen himself expressed interest in having them playable in past interviews, so it's clear that they do want them to be playable and it's not from a lack of internal passion for it. It's likely more of a matter if feasibility and marketting if we're talking about what they want to do.

[Sentynel]

Vrykul makes the most sense.

When you use toys to transform into a vrykul form, it actually changes your tooltip when you hover over a player (i.e. "Level 60 Vrykul Warrior).

No other transformation toy does that.

Wrong. There are many toys that change the race in the tooltip.

https://imgur.com/a/VNJmt

[Ghanir]

Darkfallen allied race (nelf/human and belf/undead) could be fun, as would the San'layn if they would be classified as separate entities from the Darkfallen.
Those nagas with feet in Naz'jatar could be an idea.
The Saberon from WoD are pretty cool, as well as the Wolvar.
The Sethrak are alright, I guess? Very difficult with helmets but that's not for me to figure out *shrug*.
The Eredar would def. be interesting (mostly to find out how they skew the lore to be pro-azerothians).

[fenixazul]

What about mogus, jinyus ?

BTW I will always dream with an insectoid race, the intial quest you start like a larva

[Beet]

I would actually resub for the expac if they added either Naga, Ogres, or Vrykull. I miss the cool ugly races. The new race in the expansion doesn’t look like a WoW dragon race. It looks like a furry designed it. I cannot stand it. I mean we have so many dragonoid models they could have used. I would have LOVED to be able to be a drakonoid or dragonspawn. Any type of dragon that doesn’t resemble something a furry drew on deviantart.

[Syegfryed]

Right, and I pointed out if it were simple they would already be playable.

Meaning, it's not actually as simple as people think it is. It's absolutely not.

Again, this is false, things can be simple and yet not be implemented, see: skin colors locked to npcs, saying its not simple is bogus.

Which doesn't make my statement wrong at all. We could also say that don't wanna because it's not simple. Being a complex decision is part of the reason why they aren't, otherwise we have all the lore reason to suggest that they should be.

"being a complex" decision, is completely nonsense, as there was worse and way more complex decisions made

We do ahve all the lore reasons that they should be playable, again, they aren't because blizzard don't want it for X reasons, because they think it will not make profit, because they think will not be popular, but not because is hard, objectively making dracthyr would be way harder than tweaking the ogre model, and here we are.

I mean do you think they went out of their way to make Mechagnomes playable because they really wanted Mechagnomes to be playable?

ye? we already know they are disconected with the fanbase, what they think is cool and like is not what the playerbase want.

And if we're talking about actively wanting Ogres? Even Metzen himself expressed interest in having them playable in past interviews, so it's clear that they do want them to be playable and it's not from a lack of internal passion for it. It's likely more of a matter if feasibility and marketting if we're talking about what they want to do.

You mean the guy that does not work on blizzard anymore?

ITs clear that they wanted before, with the old team, this is the new team, they want elf recolors.

[Triceron]

ye? we already know they are disconected with the fanbase, what they think is cool and like is not what the playerbase want.

And if they don't think it's worth their time or effort, they're not gonna do it.

You mean the guy that does not work on blizzard anymore?

ITs clear that they wanted before, with the old team, this is the new team, they want elf recolors.

It's the same team that prevented him from getting what he wanted. He also expressed wanting Naga, and all this time the other devs shut him down and never implemented them.

So there's more than just whether they want to or not want to. Because WoW isn't headlined by a single voice, it's ultimately a collective decision with the game director being the one who ultimately decides what goes forward and what doesn't. And there will always be certain things that the team wants to do, but just won't be able to manage to get implemented.

I mean look at how content gets cut all the time. That isn't just a case of them cutting something from the game because they didn't want it. Time and money is a factor as well, which is what I was factoring into my argument. We can literally apply this to any content in the game. If Dance Studio were easy, it would be in the game. If War of the Ancients or Abyssal Maw raids were easy to make, they would be in the game.

Yet it's not just a matter of it being easy or simple, because what we're talking about isn't easy or simple at all. It all takes hundreds of man hours to implement. And on top of that, they have to factor whether the effort is worth the time spent. For Ogres, I can see it being a decision based on lack of return of investment. Even if people on the team really want it, it probably wouldn't be a good idea since it would probably end up being quite a low picked race, and overall not worth the effort.

They had a prime story opportunity to add Ogres in WoD. Instead they spent that time and effort on revamping all existing races, and I think that was the better move. Ogres haven't really gotten a story moment to be considered since, and I don't think the dev team would consider them to be worth the effort.

[Devilyaki]

Isn’t the horde v alliance going away in dragon land, couldn’t this new one just be neutral?

[wowrefugee]

Isn’t the horde v alliance going away in dragon land, couldn’t this new one just be neutral?

The conflict is, yeah, but the faction themselves aren't. They've been pretty clear they want to keep faction identity a thing.

But yeah, it could be neutral.

[Syegfryed]

And if they don't think it's worth their time or effort, they're not gonna do it.

Exactly, because they think, they don't wanna, not because its hard.

It's the same team that prevented him from getting what he wanted. He also expressed wanting Naga, and all this time the other devs shut him down and never implemented them.

Naga is, actually, harder, for obvious reasons, so not a good example.

the point still stands, people who wanted then left, the new team don't, and its not because its easier or hard to implement.

Ogres haven't really gotten a story moment to be considered since, and I don't think the dev team would consider them to be worth the effort.

And this is small potatoes, most races didn't got story moments to be considered until they become playable, they prob don't consider to be worthy the effort right, but that doesn't mean its not simple, they are the easiest race to be add on horde, rly no effort besides tweaking models, that is going to happen with any race going playable anyway.

[DatToffer]

It's gotta be Tuskarr because they got glasses.

[Triceron]

Exactly, because they think, they don't wanna, not because its hard.

I never said it was because it was hard.

Nothing is ever 'hard'. It is more a matter of cost-return benefit, and whether they think it is worth the effort.

When they plan to not have something, it's usually due to it not seeming to be worth the effort, even if it may not actually be hard. WoW Classic is a perfect example of this. Not hard, just not what they considered worth the effort, at the time.

Yet if an easy solution presents itself, they'll absolutely take it up. That is exactly what allowed WoW Classic to actually exist, an enterprising dev figured a simple solution to bring back the old server code which they no longer had source code for. That is why I said if it were simple they would have added it, because its literally low effort. Mechagnomes is another example.

[pacotaco]

Isn’t the horde v alliance going away in dragon land, couldn’t this new one just be neutral?

The open war, yes. The conflict, no. We go back to a cold war status.
Also Dragon Isles is not a military expedition like Pandria, but an archeological one. So I don't think it would escalate that much.

[Alanar]

Damn, went to broken isles again last night.. and it proved to me again that those Vrykul settlements and their whole story there with sigrin and (opinion) I really dig the vrykul model are just THE race for me I want to see. Screw you guys with taller human or they are to tall bs, I want them!!

Same as the request for skinny human models which just uses the female forsaken model, let people have their wishes. I hope for the syndicate fans this will be an option in the future.

Darkfallen would be fine for me as well.. but I have them in my head probably different then how blizz will (if they will) put them out. Yes I am aware of these rumors and the music which had the same lenght as a race intro, I am just not convinced..

[Syegfryed]

I never said it was because it was hard.

Nothing is ever 'hard'. It is more a matter of cost-return benefit, and whether they think it is worth the effort.

I mean, not rly, some things are objectively harder than to do than others, like an entirely new race is harder than a recolor

The idea of "worthy", cost benefits is a different subject.

[Triceron]

I mean, not rly, some things are objectively harder than to do than others, like an entirely new race is harder than a recolor

The idea of "worthy", cost benefits is a different subject.

It's not harder. It simply takes more effort. Harder implies difficulty, whereas these things aren't exactly difficult, more that it's meticulous. You can see that they can implement any number of new NPC models quite easily, and it's because the NPC process isn't as meticulous as making a Player race. They aren't merely 'easier' than making a Player Race; the difficulty to actually make a Mechagnome model wouldn't be that far off from a brand new Sethrak model, for example.

I can tell you as a professional modeller who has worked in the industry for over two decades that anything can be modelled, it's just a matter of how long the company wishes to spend on making it. We don't look at things as being 'easy' or 'hard'. It's all doable. It's just a matter of how much time and effort is willing to be spent on these various styles, because obviously the time spent on a cinematic model is going to be much higher than on a game resolution model. And even then, there are times when a game model may actually take a much longer process than even the cinematic model, because we'd have to factor something like a Player model having to support all the backend technology and animations that require months of iteration to complete. This isn't _hard_, it simply takes a lot of time and effort to accomplish.

Give me a couple days and I can model you a completely new race model that is viable for a Player Race. Putting that into game as a viable Player race though, is a completely different story, because it would need to support all the animations, all the gear combinations, etc. And we can see this is going to be very likely the reason why Dracthyr don't actually sport any armor in their forms and are limited to Spellcaster roles. We haven't even seen any of them wielding weapons in combat. They're literally shown as a Player Race that can only play as one class, and would not need to be adapted to any armor, and other class animations, hell possibly not even need melee or weapon based attacks. Blizzard has cut many corners in order to save on time and effort being put into a new race/class combo. They're practically being implemented with similar effort to adding NPCs, considering the Dracthyr is so limited. The most complex part about them is probably going to be mount animations (if Dracthyr can even mount).

[Syegfryed]

It's not harder. It simply takes more effort.

Ok, to be clear, you are saying something that "take more effort" is not "harder"

It's just a matter of how much time and effort is willing to be spent on these various styles

You are basically saying everything is the same, which is completely bonkers

you can't say with a straight face that some things are not easier or harder to do.

By example, a drawing, yes, everything is doable, what matter is effort and time, but drawing an entire action scene of multiple people vs a face, you easy know what is harder by the amount of details necessary. if you want then to be int he same level of quality.

Like i said, is easier to make a recolor than an actual new race, you have less time and less effort into one.

[LostSinclair]

They normally release Allied Races in pairs right? And so far the only two models (not counting the Pandaren) that havent been used are the Worgen and the Undead. Don't want to dissapoint the people who are sick of Calia and the idea of Sanlayn elves but there has been an awful lot of movement from Blizzard on that front lately. The whole "light forged undead" and Dark fallen appearance options seems pretty likely from where I'm standing.

No clue what they would do for the Alliance counter part though. Saberon use the model and they're pretty badass. But that's probably wishful thinking on my end.

little aside the latest PTR has an encrypted splash screen of all things now. Whatever they're going to put on that "tada guess whats new in this patch" screen must be obvious or a BIG speculation point players have been gunning after for awhile. I bet we might finally get the (allied race when?) answer with it.

[Triceron]

Ok, to be clear, you are saying something that "take more effort" is not "harder"

Yes. Look at every post I made on this subject here, I have been clear to say simpler, not easy, to indicate effort, and not difficulty.

You are basically saying everything is the same, which is completely bonkers

you can't say with a straight face that some things are not easier or harder to do.

By example, a drawing, yes, everything is doable, what matter is effort and time, but drawing an entire action scene of multiple people vs a face, you easy know what is harder by the amount of details necessary. if you want then to be int he same level of quality.

Like i said, is easier to make a recolor than an actual new race, you have less time and less effort into one.

But that isn't a matter of ease. It is a matter of effort and iteration. That's a massive difference to something being not be able to be implemented because it is too hard. There's literally no issue with art being prevented to be added because of difficulty. It is all proportional to the amount of time the company wishes to spend on the content creation.


Is it hard for them to make a female Ogre model? Is it difficult to make a dozen different hairstyles each for Male and Female? Is it hard to make sure all helmets fit on a Ogre head that has a horn in their forehead? Nothing here is particularly difficult or hard to do. Anyone can literally point out these things are not actually hard, just like the person I originally replied to was making a point of. Yet the point I'm making is nothing about this is simple either, because this laundry list of 'not so hard' things to do still takes a ton of time and effort to implement.


Ogres, IMO, are in no position to be made into a player race unless they put effort into getting them to work. Their proportions aren't the same as Kul Tiran, so even if they choose to use the Kul Tiran animations and skeleton, it would require a lot of tweaks to their models and proportions, and ultimately that requires new concepts and new models to work. Again, more effort than it's worth at that point. I would imagine they would only really consider it an option if there was a strong story hook to have them playable in the future. And frankly, I don't really see it happening either way considering Ogres aren't really as popular as people might think they are.

[Mutineer]

Most people who wanted tuskarr will play it and go omg im a walrus, then quit 1-2 month because blizz didn't put X thing in the game

pathetic

I voted for tuskarr, but you're not wrong in my case. They're not really new main material for me; I'd rather have naga, but I voted for what I could wrangle into making sense narratively in my head. I don't really know where naga would suddenly come in and just like, hang out with the Alliance and Horde?

Ogres are great but I don't care for vrykul much at all, and the new gnoll models are terrific so they were nearly my first choice.

I think Darkfallen are pretty cool otherwise, and depending on how they're implemented, it could be a chance for Blizzard to try out making a class skin.

Plus, if we had to get a Shadowlands-themed allied race, I'd really prefer darkfallen to actually getting anything from the Shadowlands itself. All those races ought to stay in their realm, or at least be special when they're outside it. Having them playable just seems odd to me!