This is the only viable option for a Bard class in WoW. Would you play it?

[Ielenia]

Since I am tired of seeing this class concept being brought up constantly in multiple threads, let's end the discussion here;

Wow.

How threatened one must feel to believe they must create a thread made with the intention to END all discussions about a class concept they don't like? Do you really feel that threatened by the bard class concept? That the mere idea of people discussing the bard class concept somehow threatens your tinker concepts? Do you think that if bards become popular, not only the class would become reality, but also people will forget about your tinkers? Here's a reality check for you, Teriz: you don't get to decide what people can or cannot discuss about. In fact, you don't even have a say in the matter.

You love to accuse people of "hating tinkers" the moment they don't agree with your ideas, but apparently you don't see an issue of not only doing to other class concepts the same thing you accuse others of doing it to your concepts, but actually doing it worse, by making a thread with the sole intention to shut down discussions? There's absolutely no reason to make a thread such as this, and word it the way you did, aside from pure pettiness.

Did you really believe you had any chance of "ending the bard discussion" here? Because I doubt you would stop if someone else made a "let's end the tinker discussion here" thread and presented a nonsensical concept you disagreed with.

To top this off, your thread title and your thread poll are asking very different questions: asking if something is A viable option is very different than asking if said something is THE ONLY viable option. But to answer your thread question: no, the ETC is NOT the "only viable option".

The ONLY viable Bard concept in WoW currently is the Elite Tauren Chieftain.

False.

and he has enough presence in the lore to be considered a part of it.

He has basically zero presence in the lore aside from playing concerts in Darkmoon Faire and showing up during Children's Week. All the other bard-like characters in the game have just as much, if not more "presence in the lore" than him.

[Teriz]

Wow.

How threatened one must feel to believe they must create a thread made with the intention to END all discussions about a class concept they don't like? Do you really feel that threatened by the bard class concept?

Nope. Merely pointing out that the ETC is more fitting for WoW than the D&D version people like to prop up. Mainly because it is the only heroic version of the Bard that we see in the franchise, and it's general design/concept is backed up by the bard class spoof from 2008.

[Swnem]

Well... it would never play like that cause that is a different game.

I just think it would be clownish.

[Teriz]

Well... it would never play like that cause that is a different game.

I just think it would be clownish.

Several HotS abilities are currently in WoW classes, including the new Evoker class. RTS/MOBA games tend to form the foundation of WoW classes. If Blizzard created a new class, they would use a RTS/MOBA character as its base like they always have.

[Ielenia]

Nope. Merely pointing out that the ETC is more fitting for WoW than the D&D version people like to prop up.

And you're wrong. Not to mention you're dodging having to answer to the fact that you're attempting to kill all bard class concept discussions with this silly thread of yours.

Mainly because it is the only heroic version of the Bard that we see in the franchise,

And you haven't proven that this argument of yours matters any. It's just your opinion. For all we know, Blizzard can just "upgrade" a different, existing NPC to become a bard, just like they made Chen into a monk for MoP. Or make a new NPC entirely. They're not beholden to your arbitrary rules.

and it's general design/concept is backed up by the bard class spoof from 2008.

Same as above. Not to mention that the WC3 Pandaren Brewmaster in nothing resembles any of the three "classes" showcased in their April Fools from 2002.

[Teriz]

And you're wrong. Not to mention you're dodging having to answer to the fact that you're attempting to kill all bard class concept discussions with this silly thread of yours.

Again, I'm merely pointing out that the strongest Bard concept in Warcraft (Rock style/ETC) is viewed as silly and not fit for class inclusion by many posters. The poll in this thread is a prime example.

And you haven't proven that this argument of yours matters any. It's just your opinion. For all we know, Blizzard can just "upgrade" a different, existing NPC to become a bard, just like they made Chen into a monk for MoP. Or make a new NPC entirely. They're not beholden to your arbitrary rules.

Oh? What lore hero in WoW do you believe could be suddenly elevated to be the Bard hero? No known lore hero in the game has Bardic abilities. Chen at least had abilities that could easily be assigned to a Monk class. And yeah, Chen was a major hero long before MoP came around.

Same as above. Not to mention that the WC3 Pandaren Brewmaster in nothing resembles any of the three "classes" showcased in their April Fools from 2002.

The WC3 Pandaren Brewmaster forms the basis of the Monk class. That's the point. Again, what existing major lore character do you believe can suddenly be converted into a Bard?

[Ielenia]

Again, I'm merely pointing out that the strongest Bard concept in Warcraft (Rock style/ETC) is viewed as silly and not fit for class inclusion by many posters. The poll in this thread is a prime example.

People view it as silly because you present it as silly with the intention to make it look silly. Your poll shows that all your statements in your OP are bogus.

Oh? What lore hero in WoW do you believe could be suddenly elevated to be the Bard hero? No known lore hero in the game has Bardic abilities. Chen at least had abilities that could easily be assigned to a Monk class. And yeah, Chen was a major hero long before MoP came around.

Lorewalker Cho and Brann Bronzebeard are two possible options. And they don't need to have "abilities", as long as they match the concept itself, which they do. Not to mention that Blizzard can completely create a new character, too.

The WC3 Pandaren Brewmaster forms the basis of the Monk class. That's the point.

You're moving the goalposts. You used the April Fools as evidence of how a class would be like, and I pointed out that the monk class we got today in nothing resembles the pandaren we saw in the April Fools, since the monk is not a pikeman, a geomancer or a wardancer.

[BB8]

I would play a harp of lute character, that would be my bard.

[Teriz]

People view it as silly because you present it as silly with the intention to make it look silly. Your poll shows that all your statements in your OP are bogus.

You seriously think it’s my fault that the ETC is viewed as silly?

Lorewalker Cho and Brann Bronzebeard are two possible options.

Please post examples of their Bardic abilities.

And they don't need to have "abilities", as long as they match the concept itself, which they do. Not to mention that Blizzard can completely create a new character, too.

So every other class concept had abilities from their characters before becoming a class, but the Bard concept doesn’t need abilities because of “reasons”?

You're moving the goalposts. You used the April Fools as evidence of how a class would be like, and I pointed out that the monk class we got today in nothing resembles the pandaren we saw in the April Fools, since the monk is not a pikeman, a geomancer or a wardancer.

Incorrect. I linked the Bard hero to the ETC because they have a similar theme. No different than us getting the joke and then the hero with the Brewmaster. We got the Pandaren Brewmaster less than a month after that April Fools joke, and once again the WoW Monk is based on that hero. The ETC and the Bard joke is no different. Further unlike your Cho and Brann examples, we actually have original bardic abilities from those sources.

Silly as they are…

[kiramon]

This is hardly the 'only viable option'. There's enough bits and bobs of magical instruments or power being gained from them. The Mantid had an entire boss based on sound magic, Murmur exists (and frankly still has some of the coolest sound effects of any boss), and frankly the main bard we've encountered is Russell Brower, the Wildhammer who reappears as one of the Hyjal helper NPCs and is completely not associated with that side of things.

Now, I'd like the rock/metal aesthetic becaue I frankly would find a clothie wielding a two hander axe to be absolutely hilarious, but that's a very specific requirement.

Here I thought the character named HIRED BARD in the rogue class hall was the most obvious bard reference

- - - Updated - - -

Plenty of fantasy MMOs have an engineer class. Off of the top of my head: Warhammer Age of Reckoning had engineers. Guild Wars 2 has engineers (second most popular class!). Final Fantasy XIV has Machinist. Lost Ark. And engineers have been an iconic part of WoW's aesthetics since Vanilla with Gnomes and Goblins. Speaking of which, there one of the earliest Hearthstone expansions was themed around Goblins vs Gnomes.

Serious question -is engineer being the second most popular class because of their new spec ? They definitely weren't popular before the golem thing right ?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Serious question -is engineer being the second most popular class because of their new spec ? They definitely weren't popular before the golem thing right ?

They were already popular before Mechanist.

[Ielenia]

You seriously think it’s my fault that the ETC is viewed as silly?

That's a strawman. I said you presented the concept as being silly.

Please post examples of their Bardic abilities.

Why do you waste time asking questions that are answered in the very same paragraph you took that quote from?

So every other class concept had abilities from their characters before becoming a class, but the Bard concept doesn’t need abilities because of “reasons”?

No, it's not "because reasons". Existing abilities are not needed because, as many have explained to you throughout the years, concepts are not derived from abilities, but it's the other way around: abilities are instead derived from concepts.

Incorrect. I linked the Bard hero to the ETC because they have a similar theme. No different than us getting the joke and then the hero with the Brewmaster.

You're basically debunking yourself here by admitting that what we get with the WC3 Pandaren Brewmaster, and later on, the WoW monk class, was vastly different from the April Fools joke from 2002.

Silly as they are…

Because, again, you present it as such, while at the same time ignoring all other options.

[Teriz]

That's a strawman. I said you presented the concept as being silly.

Because the ETC is a silly concept. This thread is about the ETC and the 2008 April Fools Bard class joke.

Why do you waste time asking questions that are answered in the very same paragraph you took that quote from?

Because I want other readers to observe the sheer lack of evidence that supports your claims.

No, it's not "because reasons". Existing abilities are not needed because, as many have explained to you throughout the years, concepts are not derived from abilities, but it's the other way around: abilities are instead derived from concepts.

Yet every single WoW class contained abilities that existed within the franchise before the class was implemented. Such abilities were even attached to major lore characters that mirrored the classes they were eventually assigned to.

However, for some strange reason that requirement is not necessary for Bards….

You're basically debunking yourself here by admitting that what we get with the WC3 Pandaren Brewmaster, and later on, the WoW monk class, was vastly different from the April Fools joke from 2002.

Not really. In both cases we got an approximation of the eventual hero unit from the jokes. The Pandaren Brewmaster was still a panda man from the mysterious land of Pandaria. The ETC was still heavy metal-based despite not having GH controls and not being a shirtless Blood Elf.

Because, again, you present it as such, while at the same time ignoring all other options.

By all means, provide other options. It shouldn’t be too hard to find some major WC heroes with unique Bardic abilities right?

[Mecheon]

Here I thought the character named HIRED BARD in the rogue class hall was the most obvious bard reference

look, i gotta be honest with you. As a rogue main through all of Legion, I forgot the bard exists. My daily routine tended towards "Grab the free coin from that undead, turn my stuff in at the Djinn, see if any rewards came from Noggenfogger, throw stuff into the artifact, check mission board, repeat tomorrow"

[Swnem]

Several HotS abilities are currently in WoW classes, including the new Evoker class. RTS/MOBA games tend to form the foundation of WoW classes. If Blizzard created a new class, they would use a RTS/MOBA character as its base like they always have.

Hots doesn't play like dance dance revolution.
It's still too silly looking for me. I don't imagine myself rocking the guitar while fighting the jailor. It just doesn't fit the tone.

[wushootaki]

Everyone in here is trying to make bard a support class, but are missing one crucial concept

ETC from Heroes of the Storm is a TANK

while I don't think this is the ONLY way that Blizzard could bring about the bard class concept, I do agree that this is a strong skeleton for an actual class...just further look at HotS's ability list for ETC.


Powerslide - slide to a location, dealing X damage and stunning enemies hit for 1.25 seconds

- this is easily a gap closer
- you could also add the stun as a separate talent to give some CC

Face Melt - Deals X damage to nearby enemies, knocking them back
- this is an AoE or a cleave attack
- you could easily add the knockback as a separate talent rider
- you could also add threat to this to be an AoE taunt

Guitar Solo - Regenerate X health per second for 4 seconds
- tank HP recovery mechanic (every tank has something)

Mosh Pit - After .75 seconds, channel to stun nearby enemies for 4 seconds
- easily an AoE CC

Stage Dive - Leap to a target location, landing after 2.75 seconds, dealing X dmg to enemies in the area and slowing them by 50% for 4 seconds
- it's just heroic leap
- have the slow be a pvp talent or additional talent rider

Rockstar - Using a basic ability grants 20 armor for 2 seconds. Heroic Abilities grant 60 armor.
- this is a tank mechanic that can be reworked to reduce incoming damage after using certain abilities
- similar in a way that Monks stagger damage, this could work in a method that either delays dmg, or simply reduces incoming damage by a small amount that stacks (1%, stacking with each ability for a max of 5%?)


So at this point we have a Tank Mechanic (Guitar Solo hp regeneration), a Gap Closer (Powerslide), and an AoE that could be retooled as a Taunt. We are missing a single target taunt and some other stuff.

Let's continue looking at ETC's toolkit and talents from HotS.

Guitar Hero - While Guitar Solo is active, ETC heals for 60% of his damage dealt by Basic Attacks. Basic Attacks increase the duration of guitar solo by 0.5 seconds.
- this could also be tooled as the class tanking mechanic where using your abilities causes you to regen and extend the duration

Prog Rock - Increase the healing per second of Guitar Solo. Guitar solo also heals nearby allied heroes for X health every second while it is active
- synergy with melee (basically a healing stream totem)

Block Party - Using any ability grants you a stack of Block, reducing damage from next attack taken by 75%. Maximum of 2 stacks of Block.
- add an internal cooldown and you have another tank mechanic

Crowd Surfer - Allows Powerslide to travel over walls and terrain. If no enemies are hit, reduce the cooldown by 7 seconds and refund the mana cost.
- clearly this won't translate into an MMO, but we can take the spirit of the idea which is mobility and make it a talent that makes them immune to some form of CC while using powerslide

Loud Speakers - Increase face melt range and knockback by 50%
- translates perfectly fine

Speed Metal - Using a basic or Heroic ability also gives nearby allied heroes 20% movement speed for 2.5 seconds
- again, it doesn't translate directly, but could work as a group buff to give movement speed as an active ability

Pinball Wizard - Face Melt deals 300% more damage to enemies recently affected by Powerslide
- translates fine and adds synergy between abilities

Hammer-On - While guitar solo is active, your basic attacks deal more damage
- translates fine

Echo Pedal - Using a basic or heroic ability releases two pulses of damage. The first occurs instantly and the second occurs 2 seconds later.
- This doesn't translate directly, but the spirit of the idea does. Have it be a cooldown that duplicates your next attack/ability (or attacks/abilities) for a short duration.

Mic Check - Hitting at least 2 targets with Face Melt reduces its cooldown by 6 seconds
- translates fine

Encore - Face Melt leaves an Amp behind, which will knock enemies away again in 2 seconds. Each enemy hero hit by Face Melt or the Amp reduces the cooldown of your Mosh Pit and Stage Dive by 5%
- this translates fine as well --- we have tech, and we have 2 metal bands between the elite tauren chieftains and the forsaken band --- I don't see a problem here having an amp

Face Smelt - Face Melt slows enemies by x% fading over 2 seconds
- seems like a strong candidate for a rider talent or a pvp talent

Show Stopper - After using powerslide, gain 35 armor for 4 seconds, reducing all damage taken by 35%
- this doesn't translate directly, but the spirit does --- a defensive cooldown that offers % dmg reduction

Aggressive Shredding - Your basic attacks reduce the cooldown of Guitar Solo by .75 seconds
- synergy with your tanking mechanics

Tour Bus - Channeling Mosh Pit refreshes Powerslide's cooldown and it can be cast to increase Mosh Pit's Duration by 2 seconds
- solid CC and synergy / candidate for a pvp talent

Crowd Pleaser - Stage Dive's impact area is 50% bigger and its slow is increased by 30%
- candidate for a pvp talent

Death Metal - Upon Dying, a ghost uses Mosh Pit at the location of your death
- another strong candidate for CC / rider talent


So here we see that between Block Party and Guitar Solo, we can make a decent enough tanking mechanic. We are still missing some type of single target taunt, and basic ability.

These should be easy enough to come up with themed around the current idea.

And then you have a solid tank spec built out of ETC from hots. You can then add an additional spec, maybe HEALER since we already have the established precedent that the music has healing properties.

[shamantime]

Nah it's not people who make this stuff that are the problem.
It's people who make this stuff and proclaim it as gospel and the one true way they may happen, as revealed to them by their assholes. Which isn't people, just Teriz.

For real, I haven't played wow for a couple of years until recently and its wild to see that one of the only constants on this site is Teriz being obnoxious.

[Teriz]

Hots doesn't play like dance dance revolution.
It's still too silly looking for me. I don't imagine myself rocking the guitar while fighting the jailor. It just doesn't fit the tone.

Well the ETC does rock out on a stage in silver moon so there’s that….

But yes I agree, it is quite silly, which should tell people how Blizzard feels about Bards in general.

[Calfredd]

Well the ETC does rock out on a stage in silver moon so there’s that….

But yes I agree, it is quite silly, which should tell people how Blizzard feels about Bards in general.

That the concept of the bard(in general, not the pathetic mockery that's sometimes posted) is well liked but that certain people with giant chips on their shoulders are being bad faith actors and trying to twist said message?

[Ielenia]

Because the ETC is a silly concept. This thread is about the ETC and the 2008 April Fools Bard class joke.

Wrong. Again, you're trying to dodge the fact that the reason you made this thread was to get everyone to stop discussing the bard class concept. Which you failed, by the way. People will ignore your attempt here and just continue discussing the concept in future threads.

Because I want other readers to observe the sheer lack of evidence that supports your claims.

False. You're now misrepresenting your own arguments, here. This isn't about my claims. This is about your claim that for a class concept to be a viable candidate to be added into WoW as a playable class, you claim it is required that a VIP NPC exists with unique abilities assigned to it. And you have zero proof of this, because all you have is correlation.

You asked for examples of bardic characters, and I gave them to you. "Must have bard-like abilities" was ignored because, despite your insistence, you have never proven it to be a requirement. To this day, it hasn't been demonstrated to be anything other than your own arbitrary rules.

Yet every single WoW class contained abilities that existed within the franchise before the class was implemented. Such abilities were even attached to major lore characters that mirrored the classes they were eventually assigned to.

That is merely correlation. It doesn't prove what you're claiming is a requirement is actually a requirement. Also, the entirety of the monk's mistweaver spec's abilities did not exist in the franchise before the class was implemented, mind you.

However, for some strange reason that requirement is not necessary for Bards….

You have never demonstrated that they are even a requirement to begin with. For any class, past or future. This is the main problem with your arguments: you see correlations, and then extrapolate your opinion as being fact, as if Blizzard are somehow beholden to your rules. They are not.

Not really. In both cases we got an approximation of the eventual hero unit from the jokes. The Pandaren Brewmaster was still a panda man from the mysterious land of Pandaria. The ETC was still heavy metal-based despite not having GH controls and not being a shirtless Blood Elf.

Except we haven't. The Pandaren Brewmaster from Warcraft 3's only connection to the original 2002's April Fools joke is the fact that he is a pandaren. The 2002 joke didn't make a single mention about the race's affinity toward alcohol.

By all means, provide other options. It shouldn’t be too hard to find some major WC heroes

Already done. Again, you're proving my claim that you are ignoring other options.

with unique Bardic abilities?

This is irrelevant because you have not proving that this is a necessity.

But let's use your own "requirements" against you: can you give me a runemaster hero unit from Warcraft 3 with runic abilities? Because the runemaster was one of the three best choices for the class to be added in the Wrath expansion, remember?