FFXIV Criticisms

[Pannonian]

This portrays the vast majority of every dungeon interaction I've ever had in every MMO I've ever played.

I don't understand why the different communities are perceived that differently. They're the same kinds of people. The difference is how the game polices them which drives different behaviors and interactions.

Like a housing community with or without an HoA.

WoW is the one without an HoA and FFXIV is the one with an HoA.

Well, i can remember that in wow dungeons there was way more shit talk. Also there is no mythic+, which is the last time i played the biggest source of toxicity in WoW.

Still 2 things that stand out:

I saw way more flamewars in WoWs LFG (raids) than ever in FFXIV PF - that may be because GMs are very strict when it comes to language and people rather avoid that, and NOT because they are nicer people - still, i only encountered one flamer in PF in 3 years.

Also, the noob (sprout experience) - most people are really friendly to sprouts and help them with tips. Again, other MMOs also have their care-bears - but the sprout icon alone stands out.

So i'd argue, that people are people - everywhere - but the environment can shape behavior. And FF14 and their stuff definitely pushes the player way stronger in that direction than others (which of course leads to a (limited) self selection of players - there are players that cannot play with these rules and they will quit - players looking for a safespace will rather join, etc.).

So no, i don't think the FF14 has better or nicer people, but the game design and the gms push it more in that direction.

[Necromantic]

Wtf. Lol.
Dude. So you talked to 20 people and one of them said it's a good community and 19 said it's garbage - or whatever?.

I think you're confusing me with someone else. Nowhere did I say I talked to 20 people.

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This portrays the vast majority of every dungeon interaction I've ever had in every MMO I've ever played.

I don't understand why the different communities are perceived that differently. They're the same kinds of people. The difference is how the game polices them which drives different behaviors and interactions.

Like a housing community with or without an HoA.

WoW is the one without an HoA and FFXIV is the one with an HoA.

Countries are different too. In FFXI, JP and NA are mixed. I encountered 1 bad JP player who was racist towards NA players. The rest were always courteous and worked well together. NA players were not "unfriendly" but they were mostly incompetent for the longest time. The game had been out in Japan for 1 year before the NA release and even 2-3 years later, many NA players were clueless.

[KrayZ33]

I think you're confusing me with someone else. Nowhere did I say I talked to 20 people.

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I'm pretty sure you understood what I'm saying and meant... you don't have to act clueless now.
Whatever. There is just no point in "discussing" this when you are being like that.

[Necromantic]

I'm pretty sure you understood what I'm saying and meant... you don't have to act clueless now.
Whatever. There is just no point in "discussing" this when you are being like that.

No, I understood you completely. You still mistook me for someone else. It's fine, that's not uncommon.

Have a great day!

[KrayZ33]

No, I understood you completely. You still mistook me for someone else. It's fine, that's not uncommon.

Have a great day!

No, I didn't.
So what are we going to do now? Do we still all have to pretend you are interested in a discussion with your frivolous claims about how your % are more real than someone elses? What is this?

[Necromantic]

No, I didn't.
So what are we going to do now? Do we still all have to pretend you are interested in a discussion with your frivolous claims about how your % are more real than someone elses? What is this?

Yes you did.

And as for the rest, I'm sorry you feel that way.

[Ghost of Cow]

No, I understood you completely. You still mistook me for someone else. It's fine, that's not uncommon.

Have a great day!

Oh stop. You pulled a made up percentage out of the air, they just slapped some made up numbers fitting the percentage.

You know that. Stop with this stupid act.

[Necromantic]

Oh stop. You pulled a made up percentage out of the air, they just slapped some made up numbers fitting the percentage.

You know that. Stop with this stupid act.

Problem is, my number wasn't made up *shrug*

Not sure what "stupid act" you're talking about.

What's interesting about your response here is it reinforces what myself and so many others claim about the type of people within this community. That's something I would have taken into consideration before replying.


Infracted for no valid reason.

[KrayZ33]

Problem is, my number wasn't made up *shrug*

Not sure what "stupid act" you're talking about.

Considering how many people just got banned for trolling, I can't believe you are still here...
95%... yet in this thread alone you already have a deviation of that number that is not even remotely close to it. Sure... "it's not made up".
Just go away.
The 99% of that other poster is in the same way of "not made up", just like yours.

Even then, the point still stands that you are just visiting one echo-chamber after the other.

What's interesting about your response here is it reinforces what myself and so many others claim about the type of people within this community. That's something I would have taken into consideration before replying.

Your childish behaviour being called out on is nothing this community has to be ashamed about. Maybe you should grab a mirror for once, just like that other poster already mentioned a few pages ago..and just like how Pannonian tried to tell you as well with his post about 99%/the vast majority of his cycle saying the opposite of what your cycle has to say about something. If you, by any chance, think you talked about a meaningful, diverse group of people about this topic you are just a lost cause.

[Necromantic]

Considering how many people just got banned for trolling, I can't believe you are still here...
95%... yet in this thread alone you already have a deviation of that number. Sure... "it's not made up".
Just go away.

I'm not a troll, never have been. Being honest and assertive is not trolling.

Your childish behaviour being called out on is nothing this community has to be ashamed of. Maybe you should grab a mirror for once, just like that other poster already mentioned a few pages ago..

Assertiveness isn't childish. They're not even remotely the same thing. And just because some random person claims they're "calling someone out" doesn't automatically make it a successful "gotcha"... many times, they missed their mark considerably, case in point, right here.

[Yarathir]

Pretty much.

I mean, the extremes of bad behavior that I've seen in WoW tend to be more...well, extreme. Perhaps more direct is the better word?

On the other hand, XIV tends to be more measured due to the moderation. Though I did have someone stalking me for days because I rotated a boss in Dusk Vigil and messed up their positionals. So who knows.

What? How does that even happen.

[Necromantic]

What? How does that even happen.

It's not really that uncommon. Also, it depends on the person making the claim. Someone could follow you all over the place and get away with it because there is no rule stating you can't co-exist in a given place, so there are ways to "play the system".

There are also people who see someone in a duty who happens to be on your server. They're a bad person and the experience is enough to where they're no longer a "face in the crowd". Their name now "pops" out to you. They're seen a couple times and now it's "stalking".

It will also vary from which GM investigated. One may be a lot more wishy washy than another. In this game's predecessor, reported someone for bad behavior and nothing ever happened. I reported someone else months later for less and they were banned. They tried stirring up something about it and me on the forums, nobody cared.

[Grinning Serpent]

What? How does that even happen.

GMs that don't consider "physical" harassment to be per-ToS harassment.

I've mentioned it before. I've had friends that were subjects of targeted sexual harassment in that game and the only way to really solve it was to have them download quicklauncher and use VoidList to permanently remove the offending characters from their gameworld entirely. Blacklisting someone doesn't prevent them from following you around and emoting at you. VoidList just straight up removes them from your gameworld entirely.

[Necromantic]

GMs that don't consider "physical" harassment to be per-ToS harassment.

I've mentioned it before. I've had friends that were subjects of targeted sexual harassment in that game and the only way to really solve it was to have them download quicklauncher and use VoidList to permanently remove the offending characters from their gameworld entirely. Blacklisting someone doesn't prevent them from following you around and emoting at you. VoidList just straight up removes them from your gameworld entirely.

This is why I have such a problem with vague/convoluted rules. They're interpreted differently from one person to the next. Your friends should never have had to go that route just to avoid these people. What if they were on console?

[Grinning Serpent]

This is why I have such a problem with vague/convoluted rules. They're interpreted differently from one person to the next. Your friends should never have had to go that route just to avoid these people. What if they were on console?

The "console question" is something Square-Enix resolutely avoids discussing at all costs.

How are console players supposed to be competitive in savage, etc? All of the tools, even just DPS meters and xivanalysis (xivanalysis was crucial for improving my play), are exclusively on PC because they rely on third-party tools.

And what about xivalexander or the NoClippy plugin? If you're on console, you better live in Japan. Actually discussing this issue would require them to admit that there are things they honestly need to put into the base game.

[Wrecktangle]

WoW is the one without an HoA and FFXIV is the one with an HoA.

This is the most accurate and hilarious analogy I've never thought of it, but wish I did. I fucking love it and I'm not even sure half the people in here will get it.

[Katchii]

This is the most accurate and hilarious analogy I've never thought of it, but wish I did. I fucking love it and I'm not even sure half the people in here will get it.

I thought so too, I literally lol'd when it popped into my head because it really is super accurate. But yeah, sadly, those who don't know what an HoA is or don't have much experience with one won't really get the comparison or understand the reference. I'm glad ay least one person did.

[Aucald]

The "console question" is something Square-Enix resolutely avoids discussing at all costs.

How are console players supposed to be competitive in savage, etc? All of the tools, even just DPS meters and xivanalysis (xivanalysis was crucial for improving my play), are exclusively on PC because they rely on third-party tools.

And what about xivalexander or the NoClippy plugin? If you're on console, you better live in Japan. Actually discussing this issue would require them to admit that there are things they honestly need to put into the base game.

Personally speaking, I kind of split my play between console and PC depending on what I need to do. I'll do questing and overworld stuff on the console because it's easy enough to do with the game's gamepad support - even if it is clunky, it's serviceable enough for the non-challenging fare. But when it comes to dungeons or raids of any stripe I'm pretty much exclusively on the PC client for that stuff, because the gamepad really isn't suited for highly-responsive play, at least in my estimation. I recognize that being to play on both console and PC is a relative luxury, though; and if I had to choose between the two I'd go for PC without question or reservation.

[KrayZ33]

The "console question" is something Square-Enix resolutely avoids discussing at all costs.

How are console players supposed to be competitive in savage, etc? All of the tools, even just DPS meters and xivanalysis (xivanalysis was crucial for improving my play), are exclusively on PC because they rely on third-party tools.

And what about xivalexander or the NoClippy plugin? If you're on console, you better live in Japan. Actually discussing this issue would require them to admit that there are things they honestly need to put into the base game.

They probably also just don't care a whole lot.
How important do you, for example, think double weaving or tripple weaving actually is?
Top-Gun Maverick players will obviously blame everything on stuff like that but in the grand scheme of things it's relatively irrelevant.
While I obviously believe the game would be better if there are ways to remove ping and what not, it doesn't really need to be in the game for the sake of the "console question".
Consoles are what they are. Mods will also always exist. There is nothing groundbreakingly important for this game that wouldn't allow you to play on your console just fine if you can manage the controls

And I don't think the stalking/voidlist thing is even related to the whole console/pc discussion in that regard, is it?

[Grinning Serpent]

They probably also just don't care a whole lot.
How important do you, for example, think double weaving or tripple weaving actually is?
Top-Gun Maverick players will obviously blame everything on stuff like that but in the grand scheme of things it's relatively irrelevant.
While I obviously believe the game would be better if there are ways to remove ping and what not, it doesn't really need to be in the game for the sake of the "console question".
Consoles are what they are. Mods will also always exist. There is nothing groundbreakingly important for this game that wouldn't allow you to play on your console just fine if you can manage the controls

And I don't think the stalking/voidlist thing is even related to the whole console/pc discussion in that regard, is it?

Double weaving is literally designed into nearly every class. It's expected that you can perform it without clipping. I don't know about triple weaving. The fix on Square-Enix's end would be relatively simple, too. So it's absurd they haven't done it.

The stalking thing is relevant insofar that you need a mod to remove them from the game, since GMs won't deal with it themselves.