So... how does death work in wow now?

[loras]

Il'gynoth returning to Ny'alotha would be another of the 1,001 exceptions I mentioned at the top - although it's also possible that the Ny'alotha we see in BfA, and the one where we encounter him "reborn" is itself an extrusion of or part of the Void itself. Which would make sense to me, since N'Zoth like all the other Old Gods are also born of the Void, and likely return to it on death, explaining in part why portions of them are still around and seemingly "alive" to some degree.

Helheim's another example of an exception where a higher power, in this case Helya, can mark souls for different destinations and disrupt or interfere with the more natural order. Odyn does the same with his Valarjar and the Halls of Valor - he uses his own personal Val'kyr to mark the souls of brave Vrykul (and other beings) and brings them to his own private "afterlife," just like Helya does with the souls she manages to snag. Both Helya and Odyn put themselves into the mechanism that would otherwise deliver those mortal souls to the Shadowlands.

So yes, death is still a clusterfuck, as you put it. There are some rules in place, but those rules can and often are broken all the time by beings powerful enough to do so. Hell, even mortal Warlocks can snare and even destroy souls for their own use - death in the Warcraft universe isn't sacrosanct, and successful delivery of any soul to an afterlife scenario is most definitely not guaranteed.

Fair point on the warlocks, hadn't really considered the consequences of that sorta "casual" soulfuckery.

[Ealyssa]

Becoming a Necrolord doesn't change your appearance unless you do it yourself or end up changed.
Draka, Alexandros, Vashj, all kept their mortal appearances.

And again, Soulshaping is an ability granted to you, you can choose your shape at will.
Huln literally soulshapes in and out of his Eagle form several damn times in front of you in the campaign quests.

So they do change, glad we made that point clear...

[Le Conceptuel]

As for the whole "Chosen One," messianic type thing - that's either a frame explicitly thrust upon us from outside or a frame implicitly constructed around us due to our continued shenanigans. Whether it's innate or a product of their actions, the PC in WoW is just special.

Honestly, not a fan of that. Even if it is constructed around the player, it sort of undermines the fantasy of an MMO to be the one special chosen one. It's one of the issues I have with FFXIV, frankly.

[Jaggler]

You mean like how we had Mawsworn Kyrian fly around icecrown in the pre-patch without any problems, or how Draka was spying on a Legion world in her short, or how every Broker just travels wherever the hell they want to?

Well the Mawsworn Kyrian are a special case, since the kyrian are one of the few beings that are actually able to more easily traverse the planes due to it being their job. Same could probably be argued for the forces of Maldraxxus.

But nothing in the expansion says you could just go in, pick any soul and leave without any issue.

[Celement]

I've read through the thread and I'm more confused now... especially when it comes to titan created races " humans, gnomes, dwarfs, and other watchers.

The first ones had no hand in the creation of these races, nor do any of the entities of the shadowland. They are constructs.. why do they have souls at all actually?

Lore wise it's kind of like a computer going to a human afterlife... is this ever explained in lore or just the result of to many retcons?

[Aucald]

I've read through the thread and I'm more confused now... especially when it comes to titan created races " humans, gnomes, dwarfs, and other watchers.

The first ones had no hand in the creation of these races, nor do any of the entities of the shadowland. They are constructs.. why do they have souls at all actually?

Lore wise it's kind of like a computer going to a human afterlife... is this ever explained in lore or just the result of to many retcons?

The First Ones had a role in creating everything by dint of creating all of creation itself, including time and subsequently fate. But as for the Titan-forged races who became true organic entities via the Curse of Flesh, it's presumed that they gained souls when they were converted to mortal beings - or whatever essence they contained as Titan-forged was essentially converted into a soul. The organic beings that arose from the Titan-forged aren't constructs anymore, they're just regular beings, thanks to being converted to having flesh. The remaining Titan-forged who avoided conversion likely wouldn't go to the Shadowlands on death, and may or may not have souls in the same way mortal beings do.

[LemonDemonGirl]

Player death has basically been explained by the developers to be a case of us being so special and intrinsic to Azeroth and the greater universe's fate that we're to be allowed to be resurrected basically forever. Apparently, all the Kyrian bearers have a special memo from the Arbiter or whatever greater force oversees destiny that says "don't bother with that one" for when the PC dies.

Does this apply to Bwonsamdi too, or is he just there to screw around with us?

[Aucald]

Does this apply to Bwonsamdi too, or is he just there to screw around with us?

I think Bwonsamdi quickly comes to the conclusion that we can help him with his issues in Nazmir, concerning the Blood Trolls attacking his temples. He's more than happy to provide resurrection services so long as, in the end, we aid him by removing his enemies. His comments to dead PCs in Zandalar, where he appears as the resident Spirit Healer, also imply that the character's destiny remains to be fulfilled:

Bwonsamdi says: What you be doin' here, mon? It not your time to pass on... yet.
Bwonsamdi says: Tsk, tsk. I did not expect ta be seein' you here so soon.

[Raisei]

We didn't change a single rule... It works like it always worked. Just because you know "heaven and hell" exist doesn't really change anything.

I mean, it should change a lot. For the perspectives of our characters at the very least, but also for all those that got the same information we got. Basically it is as if we in our modern times suddenly had the Creator God step down from the heavens and explain the rules of eternity to us. Not suggestions or a faith, but the clearly set rules.

1) Would anyone that is less then brain-dead stupid commit crimes anymore? Knowing 100% that they would be sent to either endless torment in the Maw or millenia of suffering in Revendreth? This does not feel like a good deal just to aquire some wealth for the halve century or so that you live.

2) The amount of suicides should go up dramatically. Seeing as there is no penalty for suicide in the Shadowlands, you don't really have anything to loose if you lived a halve-decent life but your life is shit despite you trying to be a good guy. Christianity prevented this by basically telling people that, yes there is paradise, but if you kill yourself, you ain't going there. So work for my estate until you die from exhaustion, peasant!

I am sure there is more that i just can't think of atm. Suffice to say, the impact of Death being demystified is enormous and I am absolutely sure that none of the above will be even mentioned in the game.
The writers couldn't even tell a good story when basing it on one of WCs best storylines of all times. It would be ludicrous to think that they can handle such heavy philosophical questions.

[Zendhal The Black]

When character dies, he's dead...

then he dies again

and again

and again because it was a setback

and again

and then he retires... or get turned into 30 anima

[The Stormbringer]

One thing I don't get about the Shadowlands is this: If the purpose of the Shadowlands is just to harvest anima for [insert vague purposes here], why are souls allowed to enjoy an afterlife at all? Anima is accumulated through experiences in life, and souls seem to need anima to survive, as a form of sustenance. Wouldn't it make more sense to just... grind up all the souls (barring the best ones you can keep as servants for the factions there) when they arrive, before they have a chance to be conscious of anything, and use them as fuel? It seems like the First Ones created a very inefficient machine, unless the Afterlives and souls persisting after death serve some purpose we are unaware of. There's supposed to be countless Afterlives out there that we don't see. Why do they exist?

[Raisei]

Player death has basically been explained by the developers to be a case of us being so special and intrinsic to Azeroth and the greater universe's fate that we're to be allowed to be resurrected basically forever. Apparently, all the Kyrian bearers have a special memo from the Arbiter or whatever greater force oversees destiny that says "don't bother with that one" for when the PC dies.

Indeed and yet none of the people in the Shadowlands even recognized us as anything but the Mawwalker. Like Kyrestia going something like: "Oh you are that guy that kept standing in Dragon Fire every 2 minutes for weeks. Do you think we have nothing better to do?..."

- - - Updated - - -

One thing I don't get about the Shadowlands is this: If the purpose of the Shadowlands is just to harvest anima for [insert vague purposes here], why are souls allowed to enjoy an afterlife at all? Anima is accumulated through experiences in life, and souls seem to need anima to survive, as a form of sustenance. Wouldn't it make more sense to just... grind up all the souls (barring the best ones you can keep as servants for the factions there) when they arrive, before they have a chance to be conscious of anything, and use them as fuel? It seems like the First Ones created a very inefficient machine, unless the Afterlives and souls persisting after death serve some purpose we are unaware of. There's supposed to be countless Afterlives out there that we don't see. Why do they exist?

Technically that is what happens in Revendreth. Only the purest of souls, or the ones connected to Ardenweald are not send there. Denathrius was responsible for gathering as much anima as was possible from the souls by ehm... wringing them like a wet towel for a few millenia. Only when they are fully free of sins and anima they get to move on again. And sometimes they do not "survive" the process.
He was then supposed to share the anima with the other realms, but him being a traitor and all, he pretended like there was a draught and instead kept all that anima in his basement.

But apart from that, the SLs were meant to be a beneficial creation. It wasn't just self-serving, at least in the beginning, hence why they did not just squeezed all souls out like lemons.

[The Stormbringer]

Technically that is what happens in Revendreth. Only the purest of souls, or the ones connected to Ardenweald are not send there. Denathrius was responsible for gathering as much anima as was possible from the souls by ehm... wringing them like a wet towel for a few millenia. Only when they are fully free of sins and anima they get to move on again. And sometimes they do not "survive" the process.
He was then supposed to share the anima with the other realms, but him being a traitor and all, he pretended like there was a draught and instead kept all that anima in his basement.

But apart from that, the SLs were meant to be a beneficial creation. It wasn't just self-serving, at least in the beginning, hence why they did not just squeezed all souls out like lemons.

Beneficial for who? And for what purpose? And why? I'm basically asking: What are the First Ones motivation for any of this?

Obviously we don't have the answers yet, but it's something I've been thinking about more and more, especially now that we know other powers out there (such as the Titans) were aware of the First Ones and had even met them, and were possibly created by them. What's the point of creating custom afterlives for people? Is it penance, maybe? A sort of apology and form of 'retirement' for the people living in the reality that the First Ones created? If so, it seems like they did a pretty poor job of it.

[Raisei]

Beneficial for who? And for what purpose? And why? I'm basically asking: What are the First Ones motivation for any of this?

Obviously we don't have the answers yet, but it's something I've been thinking about more and more, especially now that we know other powers out there (such as the Titans) were aware of the First Ones and had even met them, and were possibly created by them. What's the point of creating custom afterlives for people? Is it penance, maybe? A sort of apology and form of 'retirement' for the people living in the reality that the First Ones created? If so, it seems like they did a pretty poor job of it.

Good question. Maybe we will know when we pick up with whatever the Jailer was talking about. I am relatively certain it will not be a satisfying answer tho.

[voidox]

To quote Steve Danuser at Blizzconline when asked this very question:

"Let's not get into it."

pretty much sums up the state of wow's lore and the writing team - "oh just let's ignore it" after the nonsense they pull in an expansion -_-

[Powerogue]

Usually the rule is "if you die in the plane you're from, you're dead-dead" but I honestly wouldn't think too hard on it. The actual rule is "whatever Blizzard wants." Including but not limited to robotic duplicates, voodoo illusions, recovering from decapitation, and so forth.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Merely_a_setback

[Lupinemancer]

We see people native to shadowlands travel to azeroth... if they die there do they go to the shadow lands as souls or die,die?

Also how do certain souls suffer the lose of a form while others forever die?

I... I just want to know the rules of what death is now.

Beings of magic (death, arcane, light, etc), if killed, simply returns to their plane of origin, and can only be permanently destroyed in said plane.

[mickybrighteyes]

Biggest issue now is people of the mortal plane traveling to the plane of death... like Talia, that band of Sindorei paladin... Khadgar and Calia.... getting things FROM the realms of death and taking them back. The basic interaction of them with other parties and being able to return to the mortal planes seems to suggest that OTHER parties can do the same. And Then is Zerith Mortis in the "shadowlands" or is it a bit of proof that beings of the shadowlands can cross into new realms (and possibly the mortal realm...) We do see beings of non-shadowland origin existing in the shadowlands and the effect of what might be other invasions between light, order, chaos... and whatever the devourers are supposed to be.

[Oakshana]

Player death has basically been explained by the developers to be a case of us being so special and intrinsic to Azeroth and the greater universe's fate that we're to be allowed to be resurrected basically forever. Apparently, all the Kyrian bearers have a special memo from the Arbiter or whatever greater force oversees destiny that says "don't bother with that one" for when the PC dies.

Crusader Bridenbrad would like to have a word.

[Aucald]

Crusader Bridenbrad would like to have a word.

Crusader Bridenbrad isn't a PC, he's an NPC - they can and do die all the time, sometimes permanently, sometimes not.