The Brexit aftermath thread

[Temp name]

Honestly that's been consistent every time he asks Brexit voters what they voted for or what they think they won. Mostly stumbling around and fumbling with words and vaguery for a few minutes until they cite something factually incorrect.

I particularly liked the woman who hosted the program when a Conservative member called in to talk about how Rishi wasn't "truly British" and didn't "love Britain", citing debunked reason after debunked reason, until he had no more stated reasons left to believe this until the host just got to the heart of the matter and said, "It's because he's brown, isn't it?" and he got very defensive.

Which is curious since he offered literally no other reason for his believe that Rishi isn't sufficiently "British".

I don't really pay much attention to news out of the UK, I just pop in here once in a while and read comments, so it was my first experience (outside of dribbles and a few other commenters) listening to someone talk about why they voted for brexit

[Kiria]

I don't really pay much attention to news out of the UK, I just pop in here once in a while and read comments, so it was my first experience (outside of dribbles and a few other commenters) listening to someone talk about why they voted for brexit

Brexiteers are the equivalent of Trump supporters in America to be honest.

[Kallisto]

Talking about express readers, anyone seen dribbles?

Got banned. So he'll be gone for a bit.

Also, people calling into James O'Brien's radio show is why I don't discount Dribbles to be genuine.

[Huehuecoyotl]

People think the UK has lost control of its borders. And they think that Brexit has made the situation worse. Looks to me like the "will of the people" is catching up with those that voted Remain back in 2016.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ce-brexit-poll

I love the fact that the Brexiteers have destroyed their own victory by virtue of their incompetence. They won, didn't know what to do next and just flailed around like an overgrown toddler in a china store. Starting to reverse this destructive course is just a matter of time now.

[Edge-]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-63592205

Oh boy, a nursing strike for the first time is an exciting prospect, I guess. I mean seriously it's not though, but things still seem to be going well for the Conservative government.

The vote backing strike action comes after a dispute over pay when the government offered a below-inflation average increase of 4.75% for nurses in England and Wales next year.

It comes as the government searches for spending cuts ahead of an autumn statement next Thursday, also likely to include tax rises.

The RCN is calling for a rise of 5% above the 12.3% RPI inflation rate in July, when next year's pay deal was announced.

Shouldn't the £350M/week more than be able to cover a wage increase like this? I'm not sure on the full context of this and if the nurse union has been accepting much smaller raises/freezes during the pandemic or whatever. If anyone has context on this that changes how it appears I'd be curious to learn more.

[Huehuecoyotl]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-63592205

Oh boy, a nursing strike for the first time is an exciting prospect, I guess. I mean seriously it's not though, but things still seem to be going well for the Conservative government.



Shouldn't the £350M/week more than be able to cover a wage increase like this? I'm not sure on the full context of this and if the nurse union has been accepting much smaller raises/freezes during the pandemic or whatever. If anyone has context on this that changes how it appears I'd be curious to learn more.

Part of the problem is that the extreme shortage of nurses is putting up the cost of agency nurses (where recruitment agencies are paid to provide additional nurses to cover a lack of available employed nurses). Which means a huge sum of money from a nationally owned organisation is being pumped into the pockets of private companies to cover the failures of that nationally owned organisation directly caused by the actions of the political party funded by privately owned companies.

I know it's very subtle and hard to spot, but can you see what they're doing here? And this kind of shit is going on throughout the NHS. It's being deliberately mismanaged to take funds away from patient care and towards private companies. Because a) that makes the NHS look bad and b) get those companies a return on their investment in the Tories. So that eventually they can say "see, the NHS doesn't work, only privatising it will save it!"

I don't have words strong enough to express my hatred for these cunts and what they're doing.

[Nymrohd]

Part of the problem is that the extreme shortage of nurses is putting up the cost of agency nurses (where recruitment agencies are paid to provide additional nurses to cover a lack of available employed nurses). Which means a huge sum of money from a nationally owned organisation is being pumped into the pockets of private companies to cover the failures of that nationally owned organisation directly caused by the actions of the political party funded by privately owned companies.

I know it's very subtle and hard to spot, but can you see what they're doing here? And this kind of shit is going on throughout the NHS. It's being deliberately mismanaged to take funds away from patient care and towards private companies. Because a) that makes the NHS look bad and b) get those companies a return on their investment in the Tories. So that eventually they can say "see, the NHS doesn't work, only privatising it will save it!"

I don't have words strong enough to express my hatred for these cunts and what they're doing.

Plus they can then show how important the private sector is in providing healthcare so they can argue against public health service.

[diller]

Part of the problem is that the extreme shortage of nurses is putting up the cost of agency nurses (where recruitment agencies are paid to provide additional nurses to cover a lack of available employed nurses). Which means a huge sum of money from a nationally owned organisation is being pumped into the pockets of private companies to cover the failures of that nationally owned organisation directly caused by the actions of the political party funded by privately owned companies.

We have the exact same problem in Denmark.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Finally an honest advert for the "benefits" of Brexit.

[dribbles]

Plus they can then show how important the private sector is in providing healthcare so they can argue against public health service.

Private sector healthcare is important, of course what remainers/rejoiners won't tell you is that most EU citizens have to pay privately out of their own pocket for healthcare.

France - You need a policy from an insurance company to pay for doctors.
Ireland - Everyone over the age of 6 pays for doctors appointments.
Belgium - Only half the medical treatment costs are paid for by the state.
Germany - Insurance policy must be paid for.
Sweden - You pay for a doctors appointment.
Netherlands - Again citizens must pay for a private insurance policy.

Etc etc etc...

No other European country has copied the NHS model of free for all healthcare. Are rejoiners advocating that EU wide style system for the UK health service too? I'd agree with them then, the NHS is broken, time to privatise it. A benefit of Brexit is that the opening up of UK markets to global, and for example, American health insurance providers means more competition and lower prices for UK customers rather than being restricted to protectionist EU only for profit insurance companies.

Well done Brexit, another win in the bag.

[MCMLXXXII]

Yep we have to pay a monthly fee to an insurance company. Subsidized for lower incomes. We used to have "free" healthcare for lower incomes but waiting times went to the roof. Now most treatments are dealt with within 8 weeks.
The maximum legal waiting time in the UK you ask?
18 weeks. More then 7 million people are waiting on treatment, with 2.8 million waiting longer then those 18 weeks. 18 weeks isn't long right? Just 4 and a half months.

https://www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-su...-data-analysis

But.. opening up for American insurance companies is something you want to avoid at all costs. Getting kicked out of the hospital because you're not properly insured? Check
Living the rest of your life in huge debts because you had a life-saving operation? Check!

[Pannonian]

Private sector healthcare is important, of course what remainers/rejoiners won't tell you is that most EU citizens have to pay privately out of their own pocket for healthcare.

France - You need a policy from an insurance company to pay for doctors.
Ireland - Everyone over the age of 6 pays for doctors appointments.
Belgium - Only half the medical treatment costs are paid for by the state.
Germany - Insurance policy must be paid for.
Sweden - You pay for a doctors appointment.
Netherlands - Again citizens must pay for a private insurance policy.

Etc etc etc...

No other European country has copied the NHS model of free for all healthcare. Are rejoiners advocating that EU wide style system for the UK health service too? I'd agree with them then, the NHS is broken, time to privatise it. A benefit of Brexit is that the opening up of UK markets to global, and for example, American health insurance providers means more competition and lower prices for UK customers rather than being restricted to protectionist EU only for profit insurance companies.

Well done Brexit, another win in the bag.

Austria still has free healthcare (a portion of the tax you pay on income is reserved for healthcare/unemployment/pensions depending on your income) so i'd qualify that as a big fat lie.

Also: american private healthcare is notorious for lowering prices of healthcare... /s

[Iliena]

I have quite a few NHS workers in my extended family and they feel thrown under the bus by this government, after all the extra and quite honestly heartbreaking work they had to do during Covid, so the slap in the face of no meaningful pay rise and mad Liz's tax cuts for the rich really pissed them off and they were still pissed about Boris and partygate.

My aunt was a senior ICU nurse took early retirement when things had calmed down with Covid, 2 years earlier than she was planning as she felt totally burnt out. Another who was a surgical nurse who volunteered to moved to a Covid ward in the first wave, it started to take a toll on her mental health after about 6 months, with all the deaths that left her feeling totally powerless to help most of time, so she is now considering doing something else as all the joy she had even back in her old job has gone.

Ambulance and A&E access is a nightmare! mostly is due to bed blocking taking nearly 30% of total beds at my local hospital, its people who are ready for discharge but unable to look after themselves and need social care either in the community or a care home, so they carry on taking up a hospital beds until it can be arranged! So ambulances are left stuck outside A&E departments sometimes for hours unable to off load the patient till a bed becomes available and unable to answer other calls.

It's not all bad news with the NHS I have been well treated by them this year, I have a autoimmune condition and my symptoms have been getting worse of late, I have had a lot of blood tests 2 MRI's and a PET scan, referred on to other specialist and seen pretty quickly in 2-3 weeks. But that doesn't excuses the government in anyway for all the other shit I listed above!

Hey Drib's fingers crossed nobody you care about is in a car crash or collapse in the street with a heart attack!

[dribbles]

I have quite a few NHS workers in my extended family and they feel thrown under the bus by this government, after all the extra and quite honestly heartbreaking work they had to do during Covid, so the slap in the face of no meaningful pay rise and mad Liz's tax cuts for the rich really pissed them off and they were still pissed about Boris and partygate.

My aunt was a senior ICU nurse took early retirement when things had calmed down with Covid, 2 years earlier than she was planning as she felt totally burnt out. Another who was a surgical nurse who volunteered to moved to a Covid ward in the first wave, it started to take a toll on her mental health after about 6 months, with all the deaths that left her feeling totally powerless to help most of time, so she is now considering doing something else as all the joy she had even back in her old job has gone.

Ambulance and A&E access is a nightmare! mostly is due to bed blocking taking nearly 30% of total beds at my local hospital, its people who are ready for discharge but unable to look after themselves and need social care either in the community or a care home, so they carry on taking up a hospital beds until it can be arranged! So ambulances are left stuck outside A&E departments sometimes for hours unable to off load the patient till a bed becomes available and unable to answer other calls.

It's not all bad news with the NHS I have been well treated by them this year, I have a autoimmune condition and my symptoms have been getting worse of late, I have had a lot of blood tests 2 MRI's and a PET scan, referred on to other specialist and seen pretty quickly in 2-3 weeks. But that doesn't excuses the government in anyway for all the other shit I listed above!

Hey Drib's fingers crossed nobody you care about is in a car crash or collapse in the street with a heart attack!

Covid broke the NHS, not Brexit and the figure on the big red Brexit bus of 2016 has been beaten by £100 million a week in a promise over delivered. If you are going to try to blame the government of the last 12 years for underfunding, don't forget Nick Clegg and the Lib Dems were in charge for 5 of those albeit in coalition and the Tories governed in confidence and supply for much of the rest. It is not solely the Tories at fault here and going forward even Starmer cannot promise to meet Nurses current demands.

As for Nurses going on strike and demanding a 17% pay rise that is ridiculous. NHS workers were amongst the most vocal of agitators in their demands for the £400bn cost of the draconian Covid lockdown, in no way should they be allowed to profit from it.

Nurses are getting paid up to £2,500 to cover shifts

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...HS-trusts.html

To go on strike with crazy demands and plan as some will to leave the picket lines and turn up at another hospital to be paid £1000's a day for one shift is a disgrace.

Nobody is cheering or banging pots on the doorstep for them now. Make it illegal for publicly funded and trained at great expense Nurses to strike until decent private provision, stifled until now by the inefficient lumbering NHS monopoly, is in place. If just 20% of the population moved on to tax deductable private healthcare and freed up NHS resources nobody in the general population would be waiting hours for a&e or ambulance access.

That's how you solve the crisis in the NHS.

[Mayhem]

Austria still has free healthcare (a portion of the tax you pay on income is reserved for healthcare/unemployment/pensions depending on your income) so i'd qualify that as a big fat lie.

Also: american private healthcare is notorious for lowering prices of healthcare... /s

The one thing all right-wing governments seem to have in common is the destruction of public-funded healthcare

weird, that's detrimental to every company, well apart from private healthcare providers

[Iliena]

Covid broke the NHS.

The Tories broke the NHS and no nurses are getting 2.5k per shift! the private agencies they work for do!

FFS will you stop being such a dumb fuck!

[Crispin]

Private sector healthcare is important, of course what remainers/rejoiners won't tell you is that most EU citizens have to pay privately out of their own pocket for healthcare.

France - You need a policy from an insurance company to pay for doctors.
Ireland - Everyone over the age of 6 pays for doctors appointments.
Belgium - Only half the medical treatment costs are paid for by the state.
Germany - Insurance policy must be paid for.
Sweden - You pay for a doctors appointment.
Netherlands - Again citizens must pay for a private insurance policy.

Etc etc etc...

No other European country has copied the NHS model of free for all healthcare. Are rejoiners advocating that EU wide style system for the UK health service too? I'd agree with them then, the NHS is broken, time to privatise it. A benefit of Brexit is that the opening up of UK markets to global, and for example, American health insurance providers means more competition and lower prices for UK customers rather than being restricted to protectionist EU only for profit insurance companies.

Well done Brexit, another win in the bag.

Lying again huh. Denmark has free for all healthcare.

[Blur4stuff]

You would have to truly despise your fellow countrymen to wish upon them American style healthcare.

[Temp name]

Lying again huh. Denmark has free for all healthcare.

To be entirely fair he said "most" ..
But yeah, trying to pretend that the US' privatized healthcare is good is not really a good idea.

[Pannonian]

To be entirely fair he said "most" ..
But yeah, trying to pretend that the US' privatized healthcare is good is not really a good idea.

No other European country has copied the NHS model of free for all healthcare.

Where exactly do you read most? That's why it is a big fat lie.