Why do some hate GDKP?

[Flurryfang]

Im not quite sure about the majority, but in my small community, the problem with GDKP is that is becomes all about the gold. Instead of raids being gathered around by people needing gear or people hunting a specific upgrade, the LFG is filled with BiS people, who are looking for money bags they can carry through Naxx and then have them pay for the gear when it is done.

Its about it looking like a different form of boosting.
Its about it taking over the raid scene and reducing the number of "normal" raids where the focus should be on gearing.
Its about the redirection of requirements from raids going to "How much gold do you have" instead of "What is your experience, gear and class/spec".

I don't agree with all of these statements, but it is what the broad opinion seems to be when i talk to people about it.

[shise]

I noticed a nice trend, there are far less GDKP going, or so it seems. I guess thanks to Naxx being so easy.. you´d have to be a bit dumb to pay gold for something you will eventually get by merely pugging

[Soikona]

I have never done a GDKP, but as a former raid leader there is a lot more work that goes in than just invites. I wouldn't have an issue if they got something more as long as it is transparent and you know going in.

Look at it this way, a promoter who organizes a music festival gets profit. All the promoter did was do invites. In order to be successful you need to build the right raid with the right players, otherwise you will disband on Patch or take 8 hours to clear Naxx

Like all analogies, yours is shit. Organising a raid and setting up tactics for raids that are already cleared and with a decade of info, is not hard work.

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Bidding wars are more fun, you can play mind games with them and push people into driving the price even higher (granted, this only works for items you're eligible to bid on, and it carries the risk of you being the one holding the high bid).

I've never had fun relying on some automated roll system for loot, it is just plain boring.

Sounds awful. I like to reward and be rewarded based on what happens in the raid, like DKP, instead of what happens outside of the raid.

[marulol]

Because they are poor.

What a stupid response. Ignoring him,

Most don't like it because it revolves heavily around buying gold for real money. I'm willing to bet there's at least 2 or 3 gold buyers in most gdkps. It's essentially a way to launder your wow gold that you bought from g2g.

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The usual argument against GDKP is that it "encourages people to buy gold" and "encourages Pay to Win"

Of course this is not true as gold just drops from the sky in WOTLK especially if you play daily.

If we followed this logic of buying gold to get ahead then Professions should be frowned upon as well.

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That spirit died a very very very long time ago.

People spending 50k on an item i can tell you aren't playing the game.

I've been in about 7 guilds since classic launched. EVERY guild i've been in at least 25% of the raiders have bought gold. They have no shame in hiding it becuase it's so prevalant in wow.

[Private Matters]

What a stupid response. Ignoring him,

Most don't like it because it revolves heavily around buying gold for real money. I'm willing to bet there's at least 2 or 3 gold buyers in most gdkps. It's essentially a way to launder your wow gold that you bought from g2g.

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People spending 50k on an item i can tell you aren't playing the game.

I've been in about 7 guilds since classic launched. EVERY guild i've been in at least 25% of the raiders have bought gold. They have no shame in hiding it becuase it's so prevalant in wow.

Shit dude I had a GM who was unabashedly a gold buyer, and not for the guild mind you, he would do it so he could buy gear on his alts in gkps and would unprompted tell everyone that he's such an adult with adult money and that they can do what they want with it, and he's not wrong but what kind of grown ass man rationalizes buying fake currency with that kind of logic?

[VinceVega]

GDKP is a part of the game i have no contact to and never want to. Same with boosting. I don't like it. I don't see it because of filters and putting people on ignore who advertise it.
I make my own Need before Greed raids with masterlooter so people don't roll on everything and nobody gets a second piece if anyone else needs it.

Sometimes people write me why i don't answer person xyz. 99% is that he/she is on igno because of GDKP. Never had a problem finding people.

Nonetheless i don't see a reason to ban it like some people want. Its your gold. Do with it what you want. Real money stuff is allready banned.

[Azsune]

Shit dude I had a GM who was unabashedly a gold buyer, and not for the guild mind you, he would do it so he could buy gear on his alts in gkps and would unprompted tell everyone that he's such an adult with adult money and that they can do what they want with it, and he's not wrong but what kind of grown ass man rationalizes buying fake currency with that kind of logic?

It is not hard to rationalize buying gold. Currently you can get about 4k gold on my server for 1 hour work at a minimum wage job. The best gold farms right now advertise making 1k gold an hour which is on the high end. Most people in my guild also do not earn minimum wage and are in their 30s. For me I can get around 10k gold if I spent around 1 hour of my wages before taxes.

The other thing as well is once you get enough gold to get into GDKPs, you gain the ability to get tons of gold for 2 hours of raiding on an alt. Getting an 8k payout is pretty common in a decent GDKP and as long as you bid and are doing decent damage no one will complain that you are just leeching gold.

In Vanilla I made most of my gold hosting ZG/ZQ20 GDKPs. Taking a 10% organizer cut with an extra 2.5% going to each tank. We had the advantage of being one of the first recognized raids and increased the cut to 20%. Getting 2k from bad runs with no good drops to 5k in good runs. We would also try to take 2 level 58s and charge them 5k up front that they could use to bid but would lose if they did not spend it all.

I never really needed to farm gold. I haven't been to any GDKPs since Vanilla except like 2 Hyjal runs when my guild stopped running Hyjal. I have 3 characters with epic flying, 2 greatness decks bought and 30k gold left.

[Flurryfang]

There is one benefit unique to GDKP: even if you get no items, you get gold.

In a world with a healthy economy, that is closed from outside interference, this would be a really good thing. What if you could participate in a raid, willingly forego any loot and instead get gold from it? That would make it so that people will large amount of player skill/gear, could do live in a symbiotic relationship with people who are far more interested in farming, working the AH and putting energy into their professions.

That is the basis of a good GDKP, but sadly it is rarely so. The prices expected in most GDKPs are on average insanely high if you are just supposed to get the gold from professions and farming. 500G start bid for every item is dumb and shows that the economy is a bit out of wack.

[Etna-the-Undying]

GDKP is a part of the game i have no contact to and never want to. Same with boosting. I don't like it. I don't see it because of filters and putting people on ignore who advertise it.
I make my own Need before Greed raids with masterlooter so people don't roll on everything and nobody gets a second piece if anyone else needs it.

Sometimes people write me why i don't answer person xyz. 99% is that he/she is on igno because of GDKP. Never had a problem finding people.

Nonetheless i don't see a reason to ban it like some people want. Its your gold. Do with it what you want. Real money stuff is allready banned.

This i dont see GDKPs on my server anymore because of the amount of ppl i have in my ignore list.
I Never have problem getiting into a group or finding ppl. And i also get ppl asking me why i am not inviting person X.

What i get is What is your GS to what i reply. I dont use that cancer addon inspect me if you want. Or i reply why do you want to know my GS for? for all you know i am the bigest noob on the server that has a high GS for runing GDKPs

[Elbob]

This i dont see GDKPs on my server anymore because of the amount of ppl i have in my ignore list.
I Never have problem getiting into a group or finding ppl. And i also get ppl asking me why i am not inviting person X.

What i get is What is your GS to what i reply. I dont use that cancer addon inspect me if you want. Or i reply why do you want to know my GS for? for all you know i am the bigest noob on the server that has a high GS for runing GDKPs

GS is just a filtering tool to help make sure runs are smoother. You are right that there are awful players with great gear but there are also awful players with awful gear. Since it takes a ton more time to filter by player skill level RL's opt into using GS because if the whole raid is 3.8k or above its very unlikely the run will struggle even if a few of those players are awful.

[czarek]

Ive just figured out that idea. Its just timespend in game currency. You trade ur time for items. Same thing as just DKP tbh but accepted everywhere like MASTERCARD

[NoiseTank13]

Because people (understandably) interpret GDKP as another arbitrary barrier between casuals and raiders. Some people may not be interested in making gold.

[LeginNoslen]

In Legion my guild started doing Emerald Nightmare and shortly after having a bunch of people get a bunch of loot and stop signing up for raid day the leadership decided to change to the ancient dreaded GDKP. EVERYONE was apprehensive and our roster dwindled to about 13. After the initial uncertainty and the kinks of bidding and whatnot were worked out it was total smooth sailing. This might be rose-tinted glasses but I remember it being kind of fun and it helped build a sense of community within our guild. Everyone knew each others gear and when a piece of gear dropped that was an upgrade for someone or a couple of people it was exciting for everybody. I remember my favorite thing to do was to stockpile my points if I felt my damage was in a good place on the charts and then when a upgrade would drop I'd bid ALL of my points, even if the closest bid was super low. GDKP were fun times for me

[davesurfer]

Like all analogies, yours is shit. Organising a raid and setting up tactics for raids that are already cleared and with a decade of info, is not hard work.

Like all keyboard warriors, your point is shit. You fail to grasp a concept, but in reality you do but you feel the need to flex your keyboard coolness.

But perhaps you really don't understand the point, in that case spend less time on wow and more on education.

[Etna-the-Undying]

GS is just a filtering tool to help make sure runs are smoother. You are right that there are awful players with great gear but there are also awful players with awful gear. Since it takes a ton more time to filter by player skill level RL's opt into using GS because if the whole raid is 3.8k or above its very unlikely the run will struggle even if a few of those players are awful.

GS makes returning players struggle to find groups, make it harder to find a pregression guild because you struggle to join PUGs. in the end those players may feel like the only option left is to join GDKPs.

OS + 3D, Ulduar, TOC HC and ICC is a diferent question all together but NAX??? Normal OS?? Maly?? you can do those with 20 ppl in blues

[Vaerys]

I certainly prefer GDKP over runs where items are reserved for people. I also despise GDKP runs where people are booted for not bidding on upgrades as that gets rid of the whole process of accumulating gold before bidding on that item you may want.

I participated in a new GDKP where the preponderance of people seemed to be just looking to earn their cut. We cleared the raid fine, so it wasn't all fresh 80s, but I guess they were broke folk. I got Dying Curse, BIS trinket for I think all dps casters, for 4k gold on my 3rd character. This has dropped all of ONCE in my main 25-man raid and so half a dozen of our main raiders need it but don't have it yet. A friend of mine bid 17k for Dying Curse in an established GDKP and didn't win. These established GDKPs are where people are expected to bid on everything.

[shammypie]

On my server one dude advertised he was starting a GDKP and it set off a firestorm in the channel.

Back in the day I liked them:
—Minimal recordkeeping
—Everyone gets something
—Distinguishes between the most-sought after items and like…bracers

I was just surprised to see so much vitriol, I mean if people don’t like how others do loot…don’t do it with them.

Edit: I’ll also add that IMO the loot system has done the most damage and caused the most people to quit is hands down Loot Council.

#1 most people don't actually know how it works because it went away a long time ago
#2 when people do find out how it works there are usually enraged at having to buy all their gear
#3 People don't like supporting groups that exist to steal your gold
#4 It's doubtful anyone will get an item they want and will feel bad about any upgrade they do get

[PtectheWise]

GDKPs are great, it means you can intelligently gear your character by bidding on gear that suits the set you want to build. Also SR runs are great for this. There are so many people that think MS>OS is a decent loot system but it just means that every item is rolled on by half the raid (if you are a caster or healer) so you end up just living off scraps trying to put a gear set together. Most of the dumb dumbs in MS>OS only go for items based on GS its infuriating.

I run the only GDKP on my server and its great, about half the items go for the mid bid of 500g which is an absolute bargain then some items have gone for 20k . Everyone gets a cut and if you didnt win you can add the 4k gold you earned and bid next week. It is a small server so its not the ridiculous amounts you see on the megaservers but everyone in the raid ends up happy

[garicasha]

I'm glad you're enjoying yours but your post kind of shows me what this thread had also taught me, that for newer players this would completely price them out.

I deactivated during BWL with 1,000 gold or so, skipped everything until pre-patch, and then have leveled 3 toons, netting me maybe 3,000 gold each for 9,000. Bought one epic flying so that's half of it right there, and that's without buying any enchants, gear, etc. Err maybe I made a little more but 3,000 went to dual-spec as well.

Point is I have about 3,000 gold and needed 213s in 16 slots. At 500 gold per slot it'd take a LONG time to gear up because I would be spending as much as I earned for a couple weeks and then it'd be a month or more before I re-built the gold to the point I could bid on something for 20k. Actually I probably never would, I'd just wait til Ulduar and see what I could get with it.

I dunno if it's rose-tinted glasses but IIRC when I was on Arathor 1,000 gold was a significant amount, and if I'd done a GDKP back then I'd have been happy for items to sell for 3 or 4,000. Imagine if there were no bots, I mean...20,000 gold would represent approximately 1,000 daily quests completed. At 5 minutes a quest it'd be roughly 80 hours, aka the equivalent of an entire work week.

[PtectheWise]

spend 3k on 6 items, get paid 4k raiders cut and come back next week, faster than gearing MS>OS

Doing the dailys can get you around 500g a day so its not that bad just expensive to buy the kt weps and bis trinkets usually.

Last weeks pot was 114k. torch went for 15k, envoy for 13k, wall of terror 3k and the eoe key went for 11k so yeh it will take patience to get the gold needed to buy a wep. Last Laugh the week before was the one that went for 20k. (I've only done 2 so far) The items will obviously get cheaper the later in the phase we get.

I also love SRs and run a 3SR run every week. both have their merits and both are miles better than MS>OS

It also depends a lot on your class. We have lots of competition for vanquisher tier and not that much interest in the other 2.