Preach: "A NEW Era for WoW" - Inside Blizzard HQ

[Arlette]

I'm not whining nor am I having a weirdly emotional response to a fairly innocuous take. I'm explaining the reasoning and nuance behind the way I think one particular content creator handled a situation. You've spent the last half-dozen pages attacking me personally because you seem to have some preconceived notion about the way I approach and "defend Blizzard at all costs."

Oh yes, of course, the tactic of now proclaiming someone you disagree with is emotional after they pointed out your bullshit. Classic.

And yes, you do. You pull the exact same garbage that Taliesin & Evitel do. Where are you couch an incredibly minor criticism between two praises, and then pretend that you are a neutral actor and not just constantly defending them.

Perhaps don’t be operating in such bad faith if you want people to take you in good faith. I don’t know what else to tell you when you’ve been acting the way you have been on this thread and the other ones you participate in.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

https://activeplayer.io/final-fantasy-xiv/

You were saying? Not trying to say that's 100% accurate but it's probably more reliable than the trash that is steamcharts.

The numbers of this site don't make any sense.

at one part they say there are 3M active daily players, there Total monthly active players say's 19M and then at there charts say 1.9M daily players, none of theses line up with each other.

Steam chart's might not give a whole picture but would likely still reflect trends while this site is all over the place with contradictory information.

[TheRevenantHero]

The numbers of this site don't make any sense.

at one part they say there are 3M active daily players, there Total monthly active players say's 19M and then at there charts say 1.9M daily players, none of theses line up with each other.

Steam chart's might not give a whole picture but would likely still reflect trends while this site is all over the place with contradictory information.

The site I posted is still more reliable on this topic since steamcharts only shows Steam numbers but doesn't show the majority of people who use the launcher directly from the FFXIV website.

[Arlette]

The numbers of this site don't make any sense.

at one part they say there are 3M active daily players, there Total monthly active players say's 19M and then at there charts say 1.9M daily players, none of theses line up with each other.

Steam chart's might not give a whole picture but would likely still reflect trends while this site is all over the place with contradictory information.

Most people do not play the game through Steam. Regardless of anything else, that much is true.

[Reive]

The numbers of this site don't make any sense.

at one part they say there are 3M active daily players, there Total monthly active players say's 19M and then at there charts say 1.9M daily players, none of theses line up with each other.

Steam chart's might not give a whole picture but would likely still reflect trends while this site is all over the place with contradictory information.

The most reliable source (even accepted by the ff community) is lucky bancho. His last census reported that ff had around 1.5m players active in the previous 2 months.

[chaoticcrono]

arguing about stats you dont have is kinda pointless... also who cares? you can play both games at the same time if you want.

also how many people playing a game isnt really much of a metric for a game being good anyways, even in an mmo since youre not gonna interact with (or even see) the vast majority of people in it anyways.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The site I posted is still more reliable on this topic since steamcharts only shows Steam numbers but doesn't show the majority of people who use the launcher directly from the FFXIV website.

It really isn’t because the site you posted isn’t even reliable to it self let alone a wider topic.

and going through it’s supposed data sources it’s even pulling from the steam charts it self while also applying it’s own bad math to a monthly player count that seems to come from no where as the other sites it links don’t support the number given.

- - - Updated - - -

Most people do not play the game through Steam. Regardless of anything else, that much is true.

Ya the steam numbers aren’t gonna reflect the majority of the player base at best they may reflect player trends given that the sample size is big enough.

But really there’s no way to get reliable data for the majority of the player base and sites like the one linked are seemingly just all poorly made up numbers.

[Relapses]

Oh yes, of course, the tactic of now proclaiming someone you disagree with is emotional after they pointed out your bullshit. Classic.

And yes, you do. You pull the exact same garbage that Taliesin & Evitel do. Where are you couch an incredibly minor criticism between two praises, and then pretend that you are a neutral actor and not just constantly defending them.

Perhaps don’t be operating in such bad faith if you want people to take you in good faith. I don’t know what else to tell you when you’ve been acting the way you have been on this thread and the other ones you participate in.

I made one single observation at the beginning of this thread which has been met with controversy by a number people who seemingly want to downplay (what I view to be) the hypocritical nature of Preach's actions. I'm apparently "arguing in bad faith" for simply defending this opinion. My actions in other threads has nothing to do with this and your repeated insistence that it does makes this whole thing seem like this is a personal beef you have with my posting style than anything else. This forum has an ignore feature if you don't like viewing my opinions... use it.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The most reliable source (even accepted by the ff community) is lucky bancho. His last census reported that ff had around 1.5m players active in the previous 2 months.

This site I presume? https://luckybancho.ldblog.jp/archives/57040847.html Definitely seems like they are alot more transparent on how they track the numbers and there don't seem to be any big contradictions.

[Khain]

I like preach, his FF streams are really fun and wholesome but I just don't buy this coming back to wow, every expansion is like "Blizzard is finally listening", Bullshit they are not, wow will remain the same as it has been for the last 6 years. I also don't enjoy that preach is part of this cancel culture thing his always one of the first people to point fingers and flame people for virtue signaling.

[Yarathir]

I like preach, his FF streams are really fun and wholesome but I just don't buy this coming back to wow, every expansion is like "Blizzard is finally listening", Bullshit they are not, wow will remain the same as it has been for the last 6 years. I also don't enjoy that preach is part of this cancel culture thing his always one of the first people to point fingers and flame people for virtue signaling.

He's a streamer. Streamers inherently chase the money. It's their livelihood, after all. WoW is just a pretty popular streaming game.

It helps to consider that streamers prioritize their income over anything else. Whether he sticks with WoW? Time will tell, but don't be shocked about streamers flocking to WoW (or any game for that matter) to make $. That's just what they do.

[Reive]

This site I presume? https://luckybancho.ldblog.jp/archives/57040847.html Definitely seems like they are alot more transparent on how they track the numbers and there don't seem to be any big contradictions.

Yep that one.

Edit to add:

About preach... I don't like his return either. Not because he "quit" wow, but for the way he did it. Last year every streamer coincidentally quit wow in the same month to try ffxiv. Most of them did it silently in the form of "taking a break", but preach couldn't just do that. He went beyond that and made the controversial "End of an era" video. Yeah, we can argue he didn't say he was done with wow completely in the video, but he definitely knew what he was doing with that thumbnail and clickbait title. After that, he spent the next year shitting on wow, comparing it unfavorably to ff. He even pulled that clown shit during the RWF where he would bring up ff at every possible moment.

His "return" to wow feels forced and fake tbh. But i don't mind if wow can get some benefit from it.

[ngc2440]

If you leave a comment like this you really need to ask yourself: Was that worth your time? Thats time you never get back, bro.

You mean exchanging ideas and opinions on a forum? Yes, I think so. Why else would I bother responding?

Now was it worth your time quoting five people in a passive aggressive manner? I sure hope you find some value in it.

[chaoticcrono]

Yep that one.

Edit to add:

About preach... I don't like his return either. Not because he "quit" wow, but for the way he did it. Last year every streamer coincidentally quit wow in the same month to try ffxiv. Most of them did it silently in the form of "taking a break", but preach couldn't just do that. He went beyond that and made the controversial "End of an era" video. Yeah, we can argue he didn't say he was done with wow completely in the video, but he definitely knew what he was doing with that thumbnail and clickbait title. After that, he spent the next year shitting on wow, comparing it unfavorably to ff. He even pulled that clown shit during the RWF where he would bring up ff at every possible moment.

His "return" to wow feels forced and fake tbh. But i don't mind if wow can get some benefit from it.

none of them did it quietly. I dont really see the issue with them telling their watchers what theyre doing. also is anyone actually surprised they came back for beta and launch?

if anything im glad theyre back cuz i can watch them and see if the game is worth a damn, if its not then ive saved my money and can continue playing other things.

[Reive]

none of them did it quietly. I dont really see the issue with them telling their watchers what theyre doing. also is anyone actually surprised they came back for beta and launch?

if anything im glad theyre back cuz i can watch them and see if the game is worth a damn, if its not then ive saved my money and can continue playing other things.

Most of them did tho. There was definitely a surge of "wow bad/xiv good" videos last year, but most people didn't announce their departure. Also most of them came back to wow after a couple of months max. Preach, instead, was shitting on the game until after he got the beta a few months ago.
Also, the issue is not with announcing to your watchers what you're going to do, but more with taking such a hard stance like preach did only to completely walk back on your words once a new expansion is getting close.

[Archy]

I made one single observation at the beginning of this thread which has been met with controversy by a number people who seemingly want to downplay (what I view to be) the hypocritical nature of Preach's actions. I'm apparently "arguing in bad faith" for simply defending this opinion. My actions in other threads has nothing to do with this and your repeated insistence that it does makes this whole thing seem like this is a personal beef you have with my posting style than anything else. This forum has an ignore feature if you don't like viewing my opinions... use it.

You're "arguing in bad faith" because you obviously don't like him and you are ridiculously biased in your views. One video why a WoW channel will stop covering WoW is "making it a big deal". Seriously? He even said in the video that it's possible that he will return if things change. Things changed and he returned. If you find this hypocritical then you're just looking for an excuse to hate on the guy.

[Yarathir]

I swear, if some of you were in control at Blizzard, you'd personally gatekeep who gets to play your products.

"Ah, I see you made this video once about quitting the game? We don't take kindly to that kind of turncoat behavior. You put us in quite a bad light, and you should know that betraying your family is a sin."

[chaoticcrono]

I swear, if some of you were in control at Blizzard, you'd personally gatekeep who gets to play your products.

"Ah, I see you made this video once about quitting the game? We don't take kindly to that kind of turncoat behavior. You put us in quite a bad light, and you should know that betraying your family is a sin."

they already do, the blizz defense force are some of the most obnoxious people you can come across.

[MsSideEye]

Not sure why you mention the weeb trash that is on death spiral this days and had its moment of glory half a year ago when they bought a few content creators to make some noise around this full of cult wierdos game.All of them are back to WoW now crowling because they know where money is and where views come from.
WoW is the best MMORPG on the market easily for the last 18 years in case you dont know that,with DF being that good since Alpha,that will be 20 years easily.
The only studio that can make something about that is Riot and their MMO project.

Keep drinking that coolaid... I'm sure nothing bad will happen.

I'm not saying he should have kept doing something he didn't like, I'm saying that he could have done it without drawing so much attention to it. There's a difference between, "Hey I don't like the game, I'm not sure if we're going to continue doing content on it and also Blizzard kind of sucks right now so I don't feel good covering this content" and "Fuck Blizzard, we're doing FFXIV for the foreseeable future." Both are appropriate responses. But when you come back to the game you blasted in a very public manner just a year prior, some people may raise eyebrows.

Raised eyebrows, sure, but it's not like something that isn't done elsewhere with much more alarming regularity. That's also ignoring the fact, while it might not feel like it, a year is a pretty long time. As much as I hate to admit it, even I think Blizzard has cleaned up a bit more. Not enough for me to give it another chance, but it's enough for Preach.

And I'd also like to point out that Preach never was 'Fuck Blizz, we're doing 14 for the future'. He said he couldn't support it anymore, that his heart wasn't in it, and that they were going to be covering other games while saying that, if things changed, he might come back. Hell, he didn't even go into FF14 until his subscribers on both youtube and twitched pushed for it as a way of a subscriber reward.

In the end, it's a simple fact that people can change. Holding someone to everything they ever said forever isn't only disingenuous, but it's honestly the worst thing about our world today when you can't actually change your opinion for someone whose clearly trying to do something different from what they've done before.

Ya the steam numbers aren’t gonna reflect the majority of the player base at best they may reflect player trends given that the sample size is big enough.

Honestly, I'd be treating any MMO numbers we see with the same respect as we have with WoW, the start of an expansion is going to be the biggest part, you'll see surges with patches, but you're going to lose a lot of people who are just hangers on no matter what. It's the core base that never leaves that's important and FF14 seems to be in the positive for that more often then not.

He's a streamer. Streamers inherently chase the money. It's their livelihood, after all. WoW is just a pretty popular streaming game.

Honest question... how is this a bad thing? I get it, with all the rich idiots out there, money is kinda seen as the root of all evil (Quote and all) but saying that 'Oh, someone does this just for money' seems kinda pointless since we kinda need that to survive? It feels like a put down for someone just trying to make a living. Reminds me of all the people pointing a few years ago going 'haha, flipping burgers isn't a job' and are now complaining when the fast food industry can't function right because no one wants to work there.

It helps to consider that streamers prioritize their income over anything else.

And normal people don't prioritize their income? I know I sure as hell do and I've never streamed a day in my life.

Most of them did tho. There was definitely a surge of "wow bad/xiv good" videos last year, but most people didn't announce their departure. Also most of them came back to wow after a couple of months max. Preach, instead, was shitting on the game until after he got the beta a few months ago.
Also, the issue is not with announcing to your watchers what you're going to do, but more with taking such a hard stance like preach did only to completely walk back on your words once a new expansion is getting close.

There was a surge of that because people were finally cut free from the shackles of a game and actually got to try out the grass on the other side. It turned out to be greener. And as someone else pointed out before, Preach made a single video about his departure, and it was mostly to explain to his audience-who had come there for his WoW content mind- why he wasn't covering it anymore. He didn't rant, he didn't rave, he said 'I'm sorry, we're done, and we're moving on. We might come back if things get better'.

It should also be noted that Blizzard was the one who reached out to Preach first. He said that he didn't get into the Beta originally and wasn't all that broken up about it... and then Blizzard was like... 'Do you want to try it again'?

That was kinda why Preach came back, because Blizz actually offered and that, combined with promises of having changed, was enough to entice him to at least look into it. And Blizzard has gotten better. They're by no means perfect and a lot of their stuff is still fucked, which is why they probably won't ever recover a lot of people who left, but it should be clear to everyone that they're TRYING to clean up their act. That alone goes a long way.

[Yarathir]

Honest question... how is this a bad thing? I get it, with all the rich idiots out there, money is kinda seen as the root of all evil (Quote and all) but saying that 'Oh, someone does this just for money' seems kinda pointless since we kinda need that to survive? It feels like a put down for someone just trying to make a living. Reminds me of all the people pointing a few years ago going 'haha, flipping burgers isn't a job' and are now complaining when the fast food industry can't function right because no one wants to work there.



And normal people don't prioritize their income? I know I sure as hell do and I've never streamed a day in my life.

I'm not saying anything's wrong with it. Just that people should be aware of it and not be "shocked" that some streamer chooses the option that makes them more money. I'm stating facts, you're the one reading some negative tone in them, more or less.