How have so many mortal races already joined the Primalists?

[procne]

It's as in real world - start with people forgotten by society, offering them acceptance, dumb and uneducated by simply brainwashing them. Buy some others with promise of power.

Also, Twilight Hammer and old gods were mentioned. I haven't finished questing yet, but the black locus thing looked very old-godly. And Old gods always had a connection to elements, plus hated Titans. So my expectation is that it will turn out old gods / void lords are behind everything in this expansion (considering Raszageth was pulled by a void portal created by deathwing and we don't know what happened with her between then and her imprisonment.

And probably, some primalists are ex-twilight hammer (they always reminded me of twilight hammer in silithus with their storm / lightning theme and purple robes

Again, I have not finished questing yet so no idea if there's something later on which would debunk that

[Aucald]

Also, Twilight Hammer and old gods were mentioned. I haven't finished questing yet, but the black locus thing looked very old-godly. And Old gods always had a connection to elements, plus hated Titans. So my expectation is that it will turn out old gods / void lords are behind everything in this expansion (considering Raszageth was pulled by a void portal created by deathwing and we don't know what happened with her between then and her imprisonment.

I believe the Black Locus is part of the original device that Neltharion was using to control/dominate the dracthyr prior to its destruction, although it has now been apparently tainted by proximity to the Old Gods somehow, and is exerting a decidedly different effect on the dracthyr who approach it (and anyone else). The Twilight's Hammer are definitely in and around the Dragon Isles as well, and not just implicitly by association with the Primalists. One of their number, an ogre who previously served Cho'gall, is misdirecting and using a drakonid cult who still worship Neltharion in the Waking Shores. I would not be at all surprised if more of their number are active today, and some of them are behind the Primalists' actions.

[The Stormbringer]

The mortals that joined seek power and that's what the Primalist offers. Some could have joined out of fear as the Stormbringer is probably the mightiest villain in Wow so far behind only Nzoth and Sargeras. And some probably agree with their views about turning the world back to its true primal roots.

From what I've seen, I'd place Raszageth(sp?) behind fully-armored, madness-enhanced Deathwing, but Deathwing was one of the most powerful villains around, so I imagine she's still up there. Probably behind the Lich King too.

[Aleksej89]

I mean if the "professional" story writers that blizzard pays did not care about it - then why do you care?

Yea i know its great if you can get immersed in a coherent well made story but truth be told that was never blizzards strength.

[prwraith]

Regardless of the time between expansions. This island was completely hidden from everyone and just randomly a cult forms, establishes a doctrine, and frees their dragon in less than a day.

Like wut

Hello half assed story, here we go

[Aucald]

Regardless of the time between expansions. This island was completely hidden from everyone and just randomly a cult forms, establishes a doctrine, and frees their dragon in less than a day.

Like wut

The cult actually predates the events of the Isles reopening - it's been in existence since the days of Galakrond, although back then it was a dragonkin-centric kind of thing and didn't really go in for recruiting mortals. This changed when the Isles reopened, and the Primalists had apparently gone on a recruitment drive in the intervening years between Shadowlands and the start of Dragonflight, swelling their ranks with disenfranchised mortals preparatory for freeing the Incarnates. There are definitely intimations that *something* is also behind their actions, more than has so far been related.

[LarryWithTheWeatherReport]

From what I've seen, I'd place Raszageth(sp?) behind fully-armored, madness-enhanced Deathwing, but Deathwing was one of the most powerful villains around, so I imagine she's still up there. Probably behind the Lich King too.

I'll place her a fair amount higher than Deathwing in any form. I've always viewed Deathwing as one if not the most overrated character. He's dangerous because of his ability to destroy the world pillar but as far as 1v1 actual combat. There's like over 10 characters that could beat him even without counting Titans, old gods, or void lords.

it's safe to say Alex would have easily got beat by Ras weather she's a aspect or not since aspect Deathwing had to turn to the old ones to banish her out of desperation which means he had no chance against her in a actual fight. Even after getting massively buffed by Nzoth, he still lost to Alex temporarily so it's again safe to say Ras could have schooled his ass. There's a storm coming and Deathwing wants no part of it.

I don't even think losing their aspect powers makes them any weaker in combat like a dbz thing. It probably means something else which should be revealed later in this expansion.

The Stormbringer' primal lightning bolt also seems overpowered. She could have one shot Alex anytime and end the fight early, same goes for Wrathion but she wanted her to suffer and to give Wrath doubts.

The Stormbringer's lightning bolt could one shot or at least greatly damage any character with the exception of N'zoth since he's too durable and needed a massive amount of pure Azeroth energy to destroy. I don't see anyone else tanking the lightning bolt not Deathwing, Kil'jaeden, Archimonde, or even the Lich King and Jailor.

The Lich King won't die from it if he's not in the frozen throne but he'll definitely fall on his knees. Aszshara being a great mage could probably protect herself if she expects the attack and conjure a powerful magic barrier. But that's about it.

[loras]

I thought when we first arrived on the Waking Shores, that was the first time mortal races set foot on the isles in thousands of years. And it was my impression that both Horde and Alliance members arrived at the same time, in the same place. So how come so many mortal races have already joined the Primalists by the time we start exploring the isles? It doesn't feel like much time could have gone by since we arrived, and yet most of the Primalists are made up almost entirely of mortal races from Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms. If they arrived at Wingrest Embassy at the same time as everyone else, how did they have time to become so deeply integrated in an entirely new faction in such a short amount of time?

Did these mortal races that joined the Primalists arrive at the Dragon Isles at a different time or by a different route? I feel like it's never really explained aside from one NPC casually mentioning (in optional dialogue) that "it looks like even some of the mortal races have joined the Primalists". That's all we get.

Yeah, it's an exceedingly egregious form of "look at the dust, these halls have not heard footfalls in a very long time", only to immediately run into various walking creatures moments later.
Or like fire and fresh produce in millennia-sealed tombs and such.

"You kill Unbelievably Old Dessicated Skeleton of the Long Lost Tomb"
"You loot one (1) Fresh Apple Pie"

Honestly the only thing that could salvage this are the old gods whispering to them about the dragon isles, manipulating them into joining the primalists covertly and then making it all a big reveal party when they finally get there.

And frankly it already looks like that, given the elements' subjugated past as well as the grimtotem's involvement in dark magics.

But they do have to write it or show it somewhere, else it's just this weird glaring inconsistency.

- - - Updated - - -

I'll place her a fair amount higher than Deathwing in any form. I've always viewed Deathwing as one if not the most overrated character. He's dangerous because of his ability to destroy the world pillar but as far as 1v1 actual combat. There's like over 10 characters that could beat him even without counting Titans, old gods, or void lords.

it's safe to say Alex would have easily got beat by Ras weather she's a aspect or not since aspect Deathwing had to turn to the old ones to banish her out of desperation which means he had no chance against her in a actual fight. Even after getting massively buffed by Nzoth, he still lost to Alex temporarily so it's again safe to say Ras could have schooled his ass. There's a storm coming and Deathwing wants no part of it.

I don't even think losing their aspect powers makes them any weaker in combat like a dbz thing. It probably means something else which should be revealed later in this expansion.

The Stormbringer' primal lightning bolt also seems overpowered. She could have one shot Alex anytime and end the fight early, same goes for Wrathion but she wanted her to suffer and to give Wrath doubts.

The Stormbringer's lightning bolt could one shot or at least greatly damage any character with the exception of N'zoth since he's too durable and needed a massive amount of pure Azeroth energy to destroy. I don't see anyone else tanking the lightning bolt not Deathwing, Kil'jaeden, Archimonde, or even the Lich King and Jailor.

The Lich King won't die from it if he's not in the frozen throne but he'll definitely fall on his knees. Aszshara being a great mage could probably protect herself if she expects the attack and conjure a powerful magic barrier. But that's about it.

You are way too easily impressed by <new thing, totaly superior to old thing(s)>.

We literally defeated Al'Akir, The literal lord of winds, storms and lightning without too much fanfare. And he was a lieutenant of... Deathwing.
If anything Ras is vastly inferior to Al'Akir.

[Izalla]

There is an answer, but it's not really represented well ingame.

Basically there was a time between the reawakening of the Dragon Isles, with the dragons returning, and the time we arrived. During this time the primalist protodrakes would have flown out to recruit the mortal races to their cause. This would culminate a while after with both the unleashing of the elemental invasions by these recruited mortals, showing off their power to the world, and the unleashing of Raszageth. Both of which would further the expansion of the Primalists.

So, the mortal Primalists we see on the Dragon Isles, weren't just recruited after coming off the ship with us. They were recruited in the gap period between the awakening of the Dragon Isles, and the pre-expansion events. Such as that Tauren that sets loose Raszageth in the Dracthyr starting zone.

I think the only clue they really give to this before you get there is that for those two (out of game) weeks we were doing the pre-patch, we were told by an NPC that we couldn't set sail for the Dragon Isles while the storms were happening because it wasn't safe. In other words, the Isles were totally accessible, WE just couldn't get to them. And I feel like I was told that by the NPC who does the boat countdown in Stormwind... or it was Toddy, but not in a voice acted line.

[ercarp]

Regardless of the time between expansions. This island was completely hidden from everyone and just randomly a cult forms, establishes a doctrine, and frees their dragon in less than a day.

This, specifically, is what confuses me. We were told repeatedly that the isles were hidden from everyone until like... maybe a day before we arrived? But when we get on the island, it seems like some of these other mortal races from EK and Kalimdor have already been there for ages. And when I think about it too hard, it does kind of screw with my suspension of disbelief

[Aucald]

This, specifically, is what confuses me. We were told repeatedly that the isles were hidden from everyone until like... maybe a day before we arrived? But when we get on the island, it seems like some of these other mortal races from EK and Kalimdor have already been there for ages. And when I think about it too hard, it does kind of screw with my suspension of disbelief

More than a day, but it was a pretty short window all the same. The Primalists beat even the Aspects to the Isles once the signal at Tyrhold at been activated and reopened the Isles. This is covered and explained somewhat in the short story The Vow Eternal, where the dragons experience a collective sensation of homesickness for several days after the beacon was activated, leading them all to independently make their way to Wyrmrest where Alexstrasza confirms that the Dragon Isles have been reopened and are calling them back to their ancestral home. By the time they arrive, the Primalists are already in place and have freed Raszageth from her prison - the events of which are covered in the dracthyr starting scenario at the Forbidden Reach - as Kurog's attempts to free Raszageth are apparently what trip the dracthyr suspended animation off, freeing them from their imprisonment in their respective weyrn strongholds. How the Primalists got tipped off ahead of even the Aspects is an unknown, but speculation points to an agent that is behind their maneuvering, quite possibly the Infinite Dragonflight who were active in the pre-patch actively working against the Aspects.

We arrived sometime after the Aspects have come back to the Dragon Isles and essentially set up shop in their old strongholds, or are trying to in the case of the Black Dragonflight and the Obsidian Sanctum. The Ruby Life Pools and Valdrakken have been successfully repopulated, and the Obsidian Sanctum, Azure Archives, and Bronze Sanctum are being restored as part of the campaign quests there.

[LarryWithTheWeatherReport]

Yeah, it's an exceedingly egregious form of "look at the dust, these halls have not heard footfalls in a very long time", only to immediately run into various walking creatures moments later.
Or like fire and fresh produce in millennia-sealed tombs and such.

"You kill Unbelievably Old Dessicated Skeleton of the Long Lost Tomb"
"You loot one (1) Fresh Apple Pie"

Honestly the only thing that could salvage this are the old gods whispering to them about the dragon isles, manipulating them into joining the primalists covertly and then making it all a big reveal party when they finally get there.

And frankly it already looks like that, given the elements' subjugated past as well as the grimtotem's involvement in dark magics.

But they do have to write it or show it somewhere, else it's just this weird glaring inconsistency.

- - - Updated - - -



You are way too easily impressed by <new thing, totaly superior to old thing(s)>.

We literally defeated Al'Akir, The literal lord of winds, storms and lightning without too much fanfare. And he was a lieutenant of... Deathwing.
If anything Ras is vastly inferior to Al'Akir.

Not quite or else I would have said Raszageth is stronger than N'zoth but I still view N'zoth as stronger. If Al'Akir was that powerful than he better has the feats to prove it which he doesn't. Would Al'akvir had handled Alex a lot better than his boss Deathwing and even if so that would just make Deathwing a even bigger joke. Raszageth is clearly on a much higher caliber than Al'akvir in raw power. Perhaps he's better at doing windy things but the stormbringer is ultimate power incarnate and her lightning bolt should be way more powerful than anything the wind lord can come up with.

The elementals and dragons on the Dragon Isles are stronger than elementals elsewhere. There are npcs on the first zone that says something like they never seen elementals this strong before or that the dragons on this island are different and have scales that are easily harder than metal or something like that. Also this is the island where it's eat or be eaten so only the strongest apex predator survives. It's like the zerg homeworld. Even without the Overmind's evolution involvement. The primal zergs are still stronger than normal zergs because it's a constant brutal fight between apex predators to keep getting stronger. Same goes for the Dragon Isles.

I guess it's safe to say the Elementals and Dragons on the Dragon Isles are a cut above the rest.

[Sableye]

Just saying, we could have had a short story about that instead of an insipid wedding.

we mever get a backstory for why the world is suddenly flooded with cultists. Like with N'zoth or Cho'gal or Deathwing they just appeared out of thin air. At least with Cult of the Damned we've been give some backstory that the cult of necronancy was driven underground by the Kirin Tor and took inspiration from the Orc Necromancers in the 2nd war, and later they planned the whole start of the 3rd war

I mentioned this in another thread but there's a good chance these guys are going to every cult they can find, and when the murder-hobos show up and blow up their boss they just move on to another cult

[LordVargK]

A cult can form in secret, move in secret, and then assemble in secret and finally appear when they're ready. The same thing happened when the faction of undead tried to turn on sylvanas during the wrathgate and then tried to take the undercity. The cult of the damned were all over the human population before they finally decided to get things started for the legion invasion. The answer is though that we don't know how long they've been working, or how many of them are tucked away in both the horde and alliance society. Hopefully with some good story telling we will get our answer soon as the expansion progresses.

One has to wonder why the Alliance even has a secret service...
It's one thing to be unable to find a few terrorists, but a whole other thing to miss literally hundreds or thousands of cult members among the population of a single city...

[mysticx]

we mever get a backstory for why the world is suddenly flooded with cultists. Like with N'zoth or Cho'gal or Deathwing they just appeared out of thin air. At least with Cult of the Damned we've been give some backstory that the cult of necronancy was driven underground by the Kirin Tor and took inspiration from the Orc Necromancers in the 2nd war, and later they planned the whole start of the 3rd war

I mentioned this in another thread but there's a good chance these guys are going to every cult they can find, and when the murder-hobos show up and blow up their boss they just move on to another cult

Well yeah, that's cults for you, most of them function in secret.

Azeroth has plenty of willing dupes, living in a world wracked by crisis after crisis, not knowing everything about things (The player characters know a *lot* more about the world's goings-on than Joe the village bread vendor), people are uncertain, and if a cult comes along promising safety, purpose, snazzy robes, and really cool secret handshakes, plenty of people will sign up.

And you're right, most likely a lot of the primalists are former Twilight's hammer members who went to ground when the murder hobos smashed that cult, their ideals are pretty similar, anyway, so now we get to kill them as members of another cult, and take their stuff! Murderhobo4life!

[Super Dickmann]

WoW cults generate their troops in cloning machines and then the vat-grown cultists reproduce asexually, releasing spores that create more cultists. This is also how orcs and humans are the dominant species - they're the most prolific cloning vat users.

[Vongimi]

I think its going to be revealed that Magatha Grimtotem is the leader of the mortal Primalists, and she somehow learned of the incarnates, probably through the Doomstone which she last had, and then built the Primalists up and shipped out to the Dragon Isles.

Or they will just never explain and completely forget about it, likely considering their track record

[Amnaught]

Eh I think we are better off not knowing speculation probably gonna be more interesting than the reality

Remember when Blizzard insisted that Sylvanas had some secret justification for burning Teldrassil that was more complex and interesting than "she wanted to kill as many people as possible for the Death Legion"

Simpler times

[procne]

I believe the Black Locus is part of the original device that Neltharion was using to control/dominate the dracthyr prior to its destruction, although it has now been apparently tainted by proximity to the Old Gods somehow, and is exerting a decidedly different effect on the dracthyr who approach it (and anyone else). The Twilight's Hammer are definitely in and around the Dragon Isles as well, and not just implicitly by association with the Primalists. One of their number, an ogre who previously served Cho'gall, is misdirecting and using a drakonid cult who still worship Neltharion in the Waking Shores. I would not be at all surprised if more of their number are active today, and some of them are behind the Primalists' actions.

The funny thing is that when you complete the quest, the NPC says:
"It really is quite enticing, isn't it? The Locus was too much for the Sundered Flame. However, it fits just right in my hands. Funny, that. <Adenedal shakes his head.> Perhaps not. Not this day. Not again. Take it from me. It is not my burden to bear. Good bye, dear friend."

Hinting that the NPC, a nightborne, experienced something similar in the past

[Aucald]

The funny thing is that when you complete the quest, the NPC says:
"It really is quite enticing, isn't it? The Locus was too much for the Sundered Flame. However, it fits just right in my hands. Funny, that. <Adenedal shakes his head.> Perhaps not. Not this day. Not again. Take it from me. It is not my burden to bear. Good bye, dear friend."

Hinting that the NPC, a nightborne, experienced something similar in the past

That was interesting. Could be the magic intrinsic in the stone calling to his latent addiction, or the memories of it, could be something darker. It's worth noting that N'Zoth seemed to be active in and around Suramar and the Broken Shore area, what with Kosumoth the Hungering right next door. Maybe he had some experience with the call of the Old Gods.