Manosphere/Redpill Community and the Dehumanization of Straight Men

[minteK917]

It's not a zero sum game. There are economic and cultural factors which are more likely to cause people to be more vulnerable to radicalize, and I'm all to familiar with the issues and double standards that can make being a young man in this era more difficult, but at the end of the day, YOU choose to be the person you are (although tbf this could just be the American in me talking).

Like I'm not the most sociable guy, struggled with social skills and was fat as a teenager, not the kid that was swimming in wet ass p-word (as Ben Shapiro) would say, and while that's gotten better as I've aged and matured and ventured out of my comfort zone, even when I was going through that in my teen years, it didn't turn me into a raging, violent misogynist, that's a personal choice, and environmental and societal factors can make you more vulnerable to outside indoctrination, but in the end the onus of your views, values and life choices are on you. YOU decide the person that you'll be at the end of the day.

And again, while all this is true. Individual responsibility is not how we fix this pipe line. Fixing what makes people vulnerable is how we fix it. Individual responsibility is when you address a single person. I got a post in another of these Andrew Tates and shit threads about my own experience with this before on this site, I have a nephew that, my sisters son. That she found had tik tok red pill shit. She arranged that we had a talk to him about this, hes not even 15 yet. I dont think hes ever gona fall down this pipeline because our entire family is aware of it and also against it. His personal responsibility is not whats keeping him out of it. His social conditions are. We say it takes a village to raise a child, but somehow we seem to only apply this to successful people, id argue it also takes a village to raise a shitty person to adulthood, its just the quality of the village is shit. You need to address the shitty village more then the shitty adult it produced, because its not gona stop producing more.

I can use example of what I mean by personal responsibility is not the path to fix those things. Example of one problem. teenage boys are falling behind in school, drop out more, under perform more, are by far the majority of ADHD, men graduations at all level lags behind women, some pretty heavily. Perhaps the current school structure is just not adapted to teach the average boy? Why dont we study this and find some other ways to teach boys? You could apply personal responsibility, mabye they need to just GET BETTER AT SCHOOL. But why not try to find why and then fix that?

I think this is a approach you want a society for all problems. Personal responsibility only happens when you talk directly to one person, not when you are trying to fix a trend across your entire country.

[ScipioMoroder]

And again, while all this is true. Individual responsibility is not how we fix this pipe line. Fixing what makes people vulnerable is how we fix it. Individual responsibility is when you address a single person. I got a post in another of these Andrew Tates and shit threads about my own experience with this before on this site, I have a nephew that, my sisters son. That she found had tik tok red pill shit. She arranged that we had a talk to him about this, hes not even 15 yet. I dont think hes ever gona fall down this pipeline because our entire family is aware of it and also against it. His personal responsibility is not whats keeping him out of it. His social conditions are. We say it takes a village to raise a child, but somehow we seem to only apply this to successful people, id argue it also takes a village to raise a shitty person to adulthood, its just the quality of the village is shit. You need to address the shitty village more then the shitty adult it produced, because its not gona stop producing more.

I mostly agree, although I'd also be careful with that. Once a child reaches adolescence they're not easily as swayed by their parent's or family's opinions, especially if they see them as trying to be controlling or overbearing, that could very well push him more down the rabbit hole out of spite, kind of like with my family being devoutly Catholic and me being an atheist at 13. I think the talking is definitely the best way to go about it, followed by modelling behavior that he'll see is more successful than anything he'll see on those redpill/manosphere TikTok/YouTube content creators (bonus points for exposing him to more women and a greater diversity of people in general).

I can use example of what I mean by personal responsibility is not the path to fix those things. Example of one problem. teenage boys are falling behind in school, drop out more, under perform more, are by far the majority of ADHD, men graduations at all level lags behind women, some pretty heavily. Perhaps the current school structure is just not adapted to teach the average boy? Why dont we study this and find some other ways to teach boys? You could apply personal responsibility, mabye they need to just GET BETTER AT SCHOOL. But why not try to find why and then fix that?

Well...public schools (at least in modern times) definitely aren't suited for boys, but that has a lot to do with reduced socialization, overschooling, the unnatural learning environments of schools (humans didn't evolve to sit in a desk around strangers for 6-8 hours and learning by reading a textbook), so I'd 100% with that point.

However, once again, it's not a zero sum, it's not just the system, as bad as that system may be. Take school shooters, many kids who become school shooters were heavily either othered and outright ignored by their peers or horrifically bullied, however, that doesn't mean you take a semi automatic rifle to school and military execute the lunch ladies, in the end the onus for change is on you, your environment can push you towards that systemically, but it's you who pulls the trigger.

I think this is a approach you want a society for all problems. Personal responsibility only happens when you talk directly to one person, not when you are trying to fix a trend across your entire country.

It needs to be both, you cannot exclude one without the other; systemic change and individual change, which reinforce each other.

[Kraenen]

I've honestly come to the realization that the manosphere/redpill community is...very dehumanizing if you're just a normal straight man

I mean that's more or less the idea behind the redpill. In their own minds, these people were waking up to the "harsh reality" of the dating world where women only go for the attractive guys, sexual privilege exists, etc... So the ideology formed around that, and in a way reinforced this kind of objectification of both men and women. In other terms, turning sex, love, romance, and women/men themselves into commodities to be acquired and consumed.

It's also likely focused around straight men because they're the larger group. I'm sure there's a redpill-lite for gays, as they face many issues relating to attractiveness, aging, and masculinity.

[Twdft]

the "harsh reality" of the dating world where women only go for the attractive guys, sexual privilege exists, etc... So the ideology formed around that, and in a way reinforced this kind of objectification of both men and women. In other terms, turning sex, love, romance, and women/men themselves into commodities to be acquired and consumed.

I always wonder how that works. After all humanity is pretty much 50:50 wo:men so for every lonely guy out there there's a woman sitting alone at home. If women rather stay single than date those redpill guys... I don't think women are the problem in this equation.

[Hotmail]

I always wonder how that works. After all humanity is pretty much 50:50 wo:men so for every lonely guy out there there's a woman sitting alone at home.

Men can be satisfied with almost any woman while women only go for the top guys (hypergamy). At least that's their theory.

[Twdft]

Men can be satisfied with almost any woman while women only go for the top guys (hypergamy). At least that's their theory.

Still there's that ratio. What do they think all those women do who themselves can't land a "top guy"? Being just as incel as themselves or what.

[Hotmail]

Still there's that ratio. What do they think all those women do who themselves can't land a "top guy"? Being just as incel as themselves or what.

Then the women "settle down" in unhappy sexless unions.


Redpill is a very doom and gloom ideology, and while there are nuggets of truth here and there that can benefit men who are overly naive about women, any benefit that you get from such a community is undone by its rampant grifting, misogyny and depression peddling. Not to mention the success stories are basically just fanfic.

[Twdft]

Then the women "settle down" in unhappy sexless unions.

But with whom?

Doesn't matter from which angle I look at the "problem" those redpill idiots think to have, it doesn't make sense. Humanity is about 50/50 and if all women settle down for unhappy sexless unions every last on of those incels would have a partner.

And even this women only want "top guys"... have those incels ever been outside? Walk through a mall or ikea on saturday, look through a window of a restaurant, go to a public park and you'll see a multitude of couples of different people. Everyone can get a partner. If they are not an asshole I guess...

[Captain N]

Everyone can get a partner. If they are not an asshole I guess...

This is the part that incel community doesn't seem to grasp. To them they're always the victim -- they're the nice guy who never gets a chance. Then you have grifters on social media/YouTube who stir the pot by blaming women for not giving these guys a chance. The reality is most of those in that community are creeps who have a strange concept of what a relationship entails, and think they're owed sex.

They are assholes but they're told that everyone else is the problem.

[Hotmail]

But with whom?

Doesn't matter from which angle I look at the "problem" those redpill idiots think to have, it doesn't make sense. Humanity is about 50/50 and if all women settle down for unhappy sexless unions every last on of those incels would have a partner.

And even this women only want "top guys"... have those incels ever been outside?

I haven't browsed Redpill'd articles or theory since 2017 so I'm a little fuzzy on the details. If you're really interested in an answer, you could always check out this article:

https://theadultman.com/love-and-lust/hypergamy/


It's full of coaching and book/podcast ads at the end there but hey, that's the manosphere in a nutshell ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Also, one thing to remember is that Redpill =/= Incels. Incels are a very small minority of unionless men who aren't necessarily representative of the entire manosphere.

[Endus]

I haven't browsed Redpill'd articles or theory since 2017 so I'm a little fuzzy on the details. If you're really interested in an answer, you could always check out this article:

The silliest damned thing about this bullshit is it's cearly reversed. You look at these redpill incel types, and they're always bottom-30%ers by their own metrics, and they're absolutely insistent that they deserve top-shelf partners.

It also completely ignores relationships, and focuses exclusively on empty hookups. Since you can't have committed relationships with multiple partners outside of overt polyamory (not a dig at polyamory), and polyamory, while growing, is still a tiny percentage and can't swing the scale that much.

Sure, if you're looking for hookups, you're looking for the highest physical attractiveness you can swing. Man or woman. There's nothing else to be interested in on that time scale. But if you're looking at relationships, there's a hell of a lot more going on and being considered, and the pretty guy with nice abs who's a giant doucheturd who spends all his time at the gym and staring at himself in the mirror isn't really relationship material.

Like, it's fine if you're aro but not ace, but most of these incels don't identify as queer in the first place. It's not that the top 10% of dudes get all the ladies. It's that you're a miserable sad sack nobody wants to be around. You can look like a troll and if you're fun to be around, you can land a partner. As long as your standards aren't ridiculous, at least.

[Logwyn]

I haven't browsed Redpill'd articles or theory since 2017 so I'm a little fuzzy on the details. If you're really interested in an answer, you could always check out this article:

https://theadultman.com/love-and-lust/hypergamy/


It's full of coaching and book/podcast ads at the end there but hey, that's the manosphere in a nutshell ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Also, one thing to remember is that Redpill =/= Incels. Incels are a very small minority of unionless men who aren't necessarily representative of the entire manosphere.

The Middle 30% and lower 20% females are always single and never marry or date?

[Muzjhath]

Then the women "settle down" in unhappy sexless unions.


Redpill is a very doom and gloom ideology, and while there are nuggets of truth here and there that can benefit men who are overly naive about women, any benefit that you get from such a community is undone by its rampant grifting, misogyny and depression peddling. Not to mention the success stories are basically just fanfic.

The funny thing is. The few things that the "manosphere" community brings up where they accidentally are right?
Generally it's feminists who drive those questions for more equal out-comes politically.

- - - Updated - - -

This is the part that incel community doesn't seem to grasp. To them they're always the victim -- they're the nice guy who never gets a chance. Then you have grifters on social media/YouTube who stir the pot by blaming women for not giving these guys a chance. The reality is most of those in that community are creeps who have a strange concept of what a relationship entails, and think they're owed sex.

They are assholes but they're told that everyone else is the problem.

Over the past 15 years I've come to realise "I'm a nice guy" is... so not true. Most who claim that are closeted assholes.

[Hotmail]

The funny thing is. The few things that the "manosphere" community brings up where they accidentally are right?
Generally it's feminists who drive those questions for more equal out-comes politically.

Questions such as?

I'm not really a fan of Feminism either, as it attempts to empower women at the expense of men, arguing oppression and all that. This whole idea that men and women can and should be the same in all areas and spheres of life is... well, a bit of a gullible pipe dream, to put it nicely.

[Endus]

Questions such as?

I'm not really a fan of Feminism either, as it attempts to empower women at the expense of men, arguing oppression and all that. This whole idea that men and women can and should be the same in all areas and spheres of life is... well, a bit of a gullible pipe dream, to put it nicely.

Feminism is about gender equality and equity. The claim that it acts "at the expense of men" is horseshit redpill propaganda. Literally just misogynist wankery.

[Shadowferal]

Don't call it "feminism." Call it "gender equality."

[unfilteredJW]

Don't call it "feminism." Call it "gender equality."

This is telling.

[Shadowferal]

This is telling.

The word is too loaded a term. If you give a shit about equality then go with words that win the argument.

[Endus]

The word is too loaded a term. If you give a shit about equality then go with words that win the argument.

Tone policing is garbage argumentation, trying to derail into meaningless semantics as a backdoor attack on the principles behind it. Same bullshit as the garbage attacking CRT.

[Santti]

The word is too loaded a term. If you give a shit about equality then go with words that win the argument.

Nah. Feminism is just fine.

Besides, I don't really see any point, regardless. Incels and the like would just poison it as well, and where do you go from there? No, I'd rather argue what feminism actually is, rather than dance around and call it something else.